Blue Jays Discussion: Vladdy named ASG MVP. Draft Over. Now all that's left is the trade deadline

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New mock draft from Fangraphs.

College players appear to be the hot late trendy connection with the Jays. As well as further indication that they prefer to save money at #19 if possible.

Mock Draft 3.0: The Morning Of

19. Toronto Blue Jays

Pick: Jordan Wicks, LHP, Kansas State
Most teams think the Blue Jays will try to cut an under-slot deal here. We might have gotten a bit too excited at news of a private workout with Jay Allen, as rumors around Toronto remain wildly varied, and like the Cardinals, they’ve also been looking closely at Trey Sweeney. Off the board in this scenario, Wicks is too good a pitcher to drop out of the teens. Because the Jays lack a second rounder, they can’t really mess around with tough-to-sign players here.
 
Selfishly breaks team/city protocol at the height of the pandemic to hang out with friends and then takes no responsibility for it at all, blaming "the media." He also just has that look. :laugh:

Zach Plesac sent home after violating health and safety protocols and 3 more things we learned Sunday about the Cleveland Indians



4.52 career FIP, halfway to his 27th birthday, and is known for off-field issues?

Yeah, no thanks. I don't love the idea of giving up significant assets only to find out he can't handle the AL East.
 
4.52 career FIP, halfway to his 27th birthday, and is known for off-field issues?

Yeah, no thanks. I don't love the idea of giving up significant assets only to find out he can't handle the AL East.

His lack of ability to strike people out is really not encouraging. A ground ball pitcher with the left side defense of Biggio and Bichette is probably a bad combo.
 
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His lack of ability to strike people out is really not encouraging. A ground ball pitcher with the left side defense of Biggio and Bichette is probably a bad combo.
His reputation exceeds his worth, and that's simply on the field.
 
New mock draft from Fangraphs.

College players appear to be the hot late trendy connection with the Jays. As well as further indication that they prefer to save money at #19 if possible.

Mock Draft 3.0: The Morning Of
Might be my worst case scenario. Not a fan of Wicks at all. If we want to take a college lefty at least go underslot with a riskier but higher upside guy like Bush or Mikulski.
 
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Might be my worst case scenario. Not a fan of Wicks at all. If we want to take a college lefty at least go underslot with a riskier but higher upside guy like Bush or Mikulski.

On paper he looks like one of those boring "low impact" college starters...but a potential plus-plus changeup, above-average command, and a fastball that apparently grades well analytically from a LHP profile makes me hesitant to write him off because that could legitimately produce a high-impact starter if his breaking ball improves at all. That looks like the exact type of player that a team like the Cardinals drafts who ends up a 2-3+ WAR pitcher, and not surprisingly I'm pretty sure he's one of the players they're considering at #18. He's drawing some comparisons to Reid Detmers from last year's draft: another "boring" advanced/safe college LHP who's currently tearing through AA. If you remember Detmers, he was the guy in last year's draft who I'm pretty sure no teams' fans "wanted" despite the fact that he was a consensus ~Top 12 talent.

From a fan perspective, nothing in amateur scouting is harder to me than NOT writing off guys like this because they don't "pop" from an immediate scouting standpoint.
 
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On paper he looks like one of those boring "low impact" college starters...but a potential plus-plus changeup, above-average command, and a fastball that apparently grades well analytically from a LHP profile makes me hesitant to write him off because that could legitimately produce a high-impact starter if his breaking ball improves at all.

He's drawing some comparisons to Reid Detmers from last year's draft: another "boring" advanced/safe college LHP who's currently tearing through AA. If you remember Detmers, he was the guy in last year's draft who I'm pretty sure no teams' fans "wanted" despite the fact that he was a consensus ~Top 12 talent.

On paper and on video I would argue. I'm just not feeling it. I'm also leery of guys from colleges with no record of ever producing an MLB player, it's not dispositive, but its another variable to consider, so I'm glad Fangraphs doesn't usually have inside info anymore since Kiley left.

I wouldn't compare him to Detmers at all. I was high on Detmers even a year ahead of last years draft (the receipts are easy to find). Same with Ethan Small, who has similarly unspectacular stuff but has incredible deception that makes hitters look silly. Completely different pitchers imo. I would have to see the data on Wick's fastball to believe it cause it looks highly hittable from the games I've seen. I was hoping he might back it up with an nasty Alex Claudio/Johan Santana level bugs-bunny change up, but the change lacks all the components of an elite changeup for me (velocity differential, deception, movement). It has the first two well enough, and maybe it shows flashes of all three to give it a plus-plus grade, but I'm just saying I haven't seen it yet.

That looks like the exact type of player that a team like the Cardinals drafts who ends up a 2-3+ WAR pitcher, and not surprisingly I'm pretty sure he's one of the players they're considering at #18.

From a fan perspective, nothing in amateur scouting is harder to me than NOT writing off guys like this because they don't "pop" from an immediate scouting standpoint.
Who is this hypothetical Cardinals player you're referring to? I don't see anyone on their roster or system that profiles like Wicks. The closest I can think of is Zack Thompson, but only because they're both lefties. Other than that they're not at all that similar. Thompson was an upside play, not a safe pick. The Jays were considering him before taking Manoah, due to Thompson's health concerns. But the stuff was at least mid-rotation quality.

I'm not saying Wicks is going to suck or that he won't make the majors. I can see him carving out a career in the same way Marco Gonzales or Cole Irvin has. Heck, he could turn out to be Buehrle or Dallas Keuchal but there's a reason only one of those guys was picked in the 1st round. If the option was Wicks vs Wicks then fine, but I prefer other players ahead of him on the board, and if I don't state as much right now, and pay lip service to wanting the pick, people will just say I didn't like the pick in retrospect if he goes the way of a Zeuch, Harris, Jenkins, Deck (fwiw I was very pleased about the Chad Jenkins pick, but I was also very young).
 
I really hope the Jays try and lock up Ray. The following rotation would be very solid. Ray also has a history of staying fairly healthy as well. I would assume there would be interest on his side because he has turned his whole career around with the Jays.

Ryu
Ray
Manoah
FA/Trade
Stripling/Pearson/someone else
 
I'm hoping Ray and Semien will both sign fair deals with us since Walker basically rebuilt Ray into what he is today and we have been loyal to him. And we gave Semien money that no one else would on a 1 year term to up his market value.

Let's go with the draft! Lots of options at the top of the draft and no one really seems to know where Pittsburgh is going. Their pick could have a lot of trickle down impact.
 
It's kind of funny seeing the Draft suddenly all pomped up like the other sports do after years of it just being a podium in front of an LED board and no stage or showcasing

I'm hoping Ray and Semien will both sign fair deals with us since Walker basically rebuilt Ray into what he is today and we have been loyal to him. And we gave Semien money that no one else would on a 1 year term to up his market value.

Let's go with the draft! Lots of options at the top of the draft and no one really seems to know where Pittsburgh is going. Their pick could have a lot of trickle down impact.

Ray I could see sticking around based on comfort and the benefits he's reaped from being around the org and its staff. It'll still require a likely market deal (whatever that is) so I don't expect any sort of sweetheart treatment.

Semien on the other hand won't be doing the Jays any favors. This isn't about the team doing good by him, it's all about him having an eye on cashing in during this winter's FA class. He'll likely go to the highest bidder and the Jays likely can't (and realistically) shouldn't be in that camp. They have more pressing needs to fill than middle infield.

Unless he has a massive change of heart and decides to make his decision more about chasing a title over the next several years or the clubhouse fit with the Jays is right up his alley, I don't see many if any paths to him returning.
 
It's kind of funny seeing the Draft suddenly all pomped up like the other sports do after years of it just being a podium in front of an LED board and no stage or showcasing



Ray I could see sticking around based on comfort and the benefits he's reaped from being around the org and its staff. It'll still require a likely market deal (whatever that is) so I don't expect any sort of sweetheart treatment.

Semien on the other hand won't be doing the Jays any favors. This isn't about the team doing good by him, it's all about him having an eye on cashing in during this winter's FA class. He'll likely go to the highest bidder and the Jays likely can't (and realistically) shouldn't be in that camp. They have more pressing needs to fill than middle infield.

Unless he has a massive change of heart and decides to make his decision more about chasing a title over the next several years or the clubhouse fit with the Jays is right up his alley, I don't see many if any paths to him returning.
Teams needing middle infield starters are going to blow all their money on Story, Correa and Seager. And one team that needed already spent $300 million on Lindor.

You think there will be enough teams that were profitable recently and need infield help to offer more than say 3 years $75 million? Or 4 years and $90 million?

I'd easily do those as we don't really need massive amounts of money for Bo, Vlad, etc. until down the road if we play it that way.
 
I like the Pittsburgh pick, especially if it came underslot. I can see Pittburgh building with young hitters like we are. Davis will be excellent behind the plate if they bring in robo-umps, but he has more than enough arm and power for right field.
 
I love Jobe, but man HS righties are risky and Detroit is deep in pitching. Also I thought they were hot after Mayer.
 
It's kind of funny seeing the Draft suddenly all pomped up like the other sports do after years of it just being a podium in front of an LED board and no stage or showcasing



Ray I could see sticking around based on comfort and the benefits he's reaped from being around the org and its staff. It'll still require a likely market deal (whatever that is) so I don't expect any sort of sweetheart treatment.

Semien on the other hand won't be doing the Jays any favors. This isn't about the team doing good by him, it's all about him having an eye on cashing in during this winter's FA class. He'll likely go to the highest bidder and the Jays likely can't (and realistically) shouldn't be in that camp. They have more pressing needs to fill than middle infield.

Unless he has a massive change of heart and decides to make his decision more about chasing a title over the next several years or the clubhouse fit with the Jays is right up his alley, I don't see many if any paths to him returning.
Would the jays get a comp pick if he signed somewhere else?
 
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