Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The Sedins were always competent middle-6 NHL forwards at their worst. Daniel scored 20 goals as a rookie and 54 points in the season where he's the same age Kravtsov is this year.

The questions/concerns about the Sedins in their first couple years were 'will these guys every be the sort of front-line star-level players to justify their draft position or just kind of disappointing ok 2nd line players'. That's a TOTALLY different thing from a guy like Kravtsov not looking like any sort of NHL player in his draft+5. It would take a miracle right now for Kravtsov to get to 'ok 2nd liner' status.

To be fair..this is rooted from my comment about 'what if's' where I was responding to a poster discussing Podkolzin,Hoglander and Aman..Relative to where Podz and the Sedins were drafted..in their first few years, they weren't 'great'.

There's obviously no question that you could compare Kravtsov and the Sedins..Kravtsov hasn't been a useful /legit NHL player from day one...and still isnt.

 

[VanJack]

What separated the Sedins from their peers in their early years, was their insatiable work-ethic and determination to improve as hockey players. Their off-season training regimen was the stuff of legend.

I don't really see any of that kind of commitment with Kravstov. That's why Tocchet and the coaching staff are saying that 'it's a huge off-season' for him.

He needs to hit the gym and the dryland training circuit, and report to camp in the best shape of his life. Talent isn't enough in the NHL these days, without the physical determination to match.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Haven't won since they scratched him.

 

[bossram]

The Sedins were always competent middle-6 NHL forwards at their worst. Daniel scored 20 goals as a rookie and 54 points in the season where he's the same age Kravtsov is this year.

The questions/concerns about the Sedins in their first couple years were 'will these guys every be the sort of front-line star-level players to justify their draft position or just kind of disappointing ok 2nd line players'. That's a TOTALLY different thing from a guy like Kravtsov not looking like any sort of NHL player in his draft+5. It would take a miracle right now for Kravtsov to get to 'ok 2nd liner' status.

Yep.

Any comparison to the Sedins is beyond laughable.

Kravtsov is simply not an NHL player.

 

[VanJack]

Hope I'm wrong, but Kravtov is starting to remind me of the second coming of Alexander Burmistrov. Picked eighth overall by the late Atlanta Thrashers in 2010, he bounced around from team to team.

His lofty draft status always seemed to ensure that another NHL team would take a flyer on him. Heck, even Benning rolled the dice on him before he quit on the Canucks and headed back to Russia.

 

[Brookbank]

Grabner had 27 goals once

Sounds like you need to do some more research here.

Grabner got 34 goals once. You know, literally the year he was traded. If he stayed and developed as a real Canuck, he could have been here for a decade

 

[Brookbank]

how people evaluate prime mason raymond is easily top three among my qualifiers of whether or not i think someone’s probably got good hockey takes

Ah Mason Raymond is everyone's hero now is he ? He got trashed on these boards most of the time. And everything had to go right for him to get those 25 goals. "Prime" Mason Raymond isn't a thing.

 

[RobertKron]

Hope I'm wrong, but Kravtov is starting to remind me of the second coming of Alexander Burmistrov. Picked eighth overall by the late Atlanta Thrashers in 2010, he bounced around from team to team.

His lofty draft status always seemed to ensure that another NHL team would take a flyer on him. Heck, even Benning rolled the dice on him before he quit on the Canucks and headed back to Russia.

Nikita Filatov is the guy you're looking for. Even down to the off-season workouts.

Grabner got 34 goals once. You know, literally the year he was traded. If he stayed and developed as a real Canuck, he could have been here for a decade

If he stayed, he'd have still scored all those goals with the Islanders.

 

[bossram]

Hope I'm wrong, but Kravtov is starting to remind me of the second coming of Alexander Burmistrov. Picked eighth overall by the late Atlanta Thrashers in 2010, he bounced around from team to team.

His lofty draft status always seemed to ensure that another NHL team would take a flyer on him. Heck, even Benning rolled the dice on him before he quit on the Canucks and headed back to Russia.

Burmistrov was actually a legitimate NHLer for multiple seasons. That would be a positive outcome for Kravstov at this point.

 

[Brookbank]

Nikita Filatov is the guy you're looking for. Even down to the off-season workouts.



If he stayed, he'd have still scored all those goals with the Islanders.

It is kinda strange to see how Mike Gillis took literally zero heat and still doesn't from that terrible trade. Even in hindsight.

Considering all of this defense of Raymond, I'd say the same with Grabner. Grabner was also an allstar and was getting allstar considerations in 2017

Michael Grabner is Undercover All-Star For Rangers

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Kravtsov is a Centre not a Winger.

His best-ever performances have been as a Centre.

The Rangers were going to try him at Centre, apparently.

But the Canucks are going to waste yet another asset due to their lack of vision aren't they?

 

[RobertKron]

It is kinda strange to see how Mike Gillis took literally zero heat and still doesn't from that terrible trade. Even in hindsight.

Considering all of this defense of Raymond, I'd say the same with Grabner. Grabner was also an allstar and was getting allstar considerations in 2017

Michael Grabner is Undercover All-Star For Rangers

Gillis took zero heat for the Ballard trade? Are you high??

Grabner turned into a solid player, but it took the trade, subsequent washout in Florida, and then being force-fed minutes for half a season with the Islanders for him to figure it out, and I'm pretty sure the player himself has even acknowledged this. That was very clearly not going to happen in Vancouver given where the team was at. Suggesting otherwise is honestly just being a silly goose.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

lmao yeah the canucks really missed out on michael grabner. maybe the dumbest guy in the nhl BEFORE he got CTE

 

[MarkMM]

What separated the Sedins from their peers in their early years, was their insatiable work-ethic and determination to improve as hockey players. Their off-season training regimen was the stuff of legend.

I don't really see any of that kind of commitment with Kravstov. That's why Tocchet and the coaching staff are saying that 'it's a huge off-season' for him.

He needs to hit the gym and the dryland training circuit, and report to camp in the best shape of his life. Talent isn't enough in the NHL these days, without the physical determination to match.

That's why Allvin's comment during the draft behind-the-scenes that "everyone at this level has work ethic and drive" (or to that effect) stood out to me. If he was saying he wanted to prize talent over intangibles, okay, but stating the base assumption that you assume work ethic is a given is how you end up with Fedor Federovs and Kravstov's.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Grabner got 34 goals once. You know, literally the year he was traded. If he stayed and developed as a real Canuck, he could have been here for a decade

You really don't know that and again played for multiple teams, tells you all you need to know, he was one dimensional, Raymond was a great 2 way guy. They made the right choice, it's just too bad that Raymond got his back broken in the SCF.

 

[VanJack]

Nikita Filatov is the guy you're looking for. Even down to the off-season workouts.



If he stayed, he'd have still scored all those goals with the Islanders.

Yeah, Filatov might be a better comparison. A high draft pick (6th overall) by the Blue Jackets in 2008, who then almost completely flopped.

But on a positive note, Kravtsov, is a lot bigger at 6'3 and 200, and looks al lot better along the wall. I'd get him back into the lineup and try him at center. What have they got to lose but a few meaningless games?

 

[Peen]

Ah Mason Raymond is everyone's hero now is he ? He got trashed on these boards most of the time. And everything had to go right for him to get those 25 goals. "Prime" Mason Raymond isn't a thing.

 

[Mandar]

Yeah, Filatov might be a better comparison. A high draft pick (6th overall) by the Blue Jackets in 2008, who then almost completely flopped.

But on a positive note, Kravtsov, is a lot bigger at 6'3 and 200, and looks al lot better along the wall. I'd get him back into the lineup and try him at center. What have they got to lose but a few meaningless games?

Only if he was carrying a 50 pound sack on his back. He might be sniffing 180 after an extra round of mashed potatoes.

 

[Jyrki]

Ah Mason Raymond is everyone's hero now is he ? He got trashed on these boards most of the time. And everything had to go right for him to get those 25 goals. "Prime" Mason Raymond isn't a thing.

What do you meeeaaan? We loved packaging him with Pyatt and a 2nd for someone else's star player, this means we valued him highly! /s

 

[Brookbank]

You really don't know that and again played for multiple teams, tells you all you need to know, he was one dimensional, Raymond was a great 2 way guy. They made the right choice, it's just too bad that Raymond got his back broken in the SCF.

What is your point ? His DB profile says he got 34 goals with the Islanders in 2011.

 

[F A N]

Burmistrov was actually a legitimate NHLer for multiple seasons. That would be a positive outcome for Kravstov at this point.

Nikita Filatov is the guy you're looking for. Even down to the off-season workouts.

Yeah, Filatov might be a better comparison. A high draft pick (6th overall) by the Blue Jackets in 2008, who then almost completely flopped.

But on a positive note, Kravtsov, is a lot bigger at 6'3 and 200, and looks al lot better along the wall. I'd get him back into the lineup and try him at center. What have they got to lose but a few meaningless games?

IIRC, Burmistrov was ranked 3rd in the unconfirmed Canucks "leaked" draft board.

Burmistrov went into the draft as an all around prospect who had come to North America to play (much less Russian factor). He was ranked all over the place. I think the consensus was that his upside wasn't as high as Tarasenko or Kuznetsov but he was the one who was willing to play in North America. He was also rather advanced defensively.

Filatov went into the draft as a top prospect. There's really no comparison. He "fell" in the draft and was picked 6th.

Kratsov was considered a reach at the time. He was raw. But then he had an excellent draft +1 year and everyone thought he was a budding star.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Only reason he took so long to score is he was waiting for me to witness it live.

 

[Raistlin]

Only reason he took so long to score is he was waiting for me to witness it live.

full circle.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

What is your point ? His DB profile says he got 34 goals with the Islanders in 2011.

That your point is full of holes, maybe read my points?

 

[Tables of Stats]

But the talent is there and that never really goes away. It is the guys with that talent that you give up on that will kill you. We did that with Micheal Grabner. Should have dumped Raymond instead. But Raymond was a good ol boy who was always in perfect shape. But he didn't have the talent

Yeah, because a guy who was never healthy enough to play a full season and who has a career PPG worse than Raymond was a good bet... We made the right call between the two.