Seravalli: Vegas and Buffalo working on framework of Eichel trade

[57special]

I mean if we want to be real, the issue here is that Eichel is refusing to get the standard surgery for his neck and wants specifically the disc replacement surgery. Eichel's "bad neck" is only an issue because Eichel wants an "experimental" surgery. And by "experimental", I mean something that NHL players haven't done before.

It's Eichel's right to demand whatever surgery he wants, but this issue would have been resolved months ago had Eichel just been willing to take the existing surgery that is proven to work.

Fusion is known to bring all sorts of problems post surgery. It is not a great option, just the only option till ADR was developed (back in the 1980's, I believe). ADR is trending towards the preferred choice for the spine of the two due to the lesser pressure put on the surrounding discs, which puts them at risk over time. Fusion also limits mobility from day one after the surgery, whereas ADR does not.

To sum up, fusion "works" after a fashion, but ADR was developed as an improvement, not as a lesser option to fusion. All surgeries come with risks, but pretending that ADR is fraught with them and fusion is safer is flat out wrong.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fusion is known to bring all sorts of problems post surgery. It is not a great option, just the only option till ADR was developed (back in the 1980's, I believe). ADR is trending towards the preferred choice for the spine of the two due to the lesser pressure put on the surrounding discs, which puts them at risk over time. Fusion also limits mobility from day one after the surgery, whereas ADR does not.

To sum up, fusion "works" after a fashion, but ADR was developed as an improvement, not as a lesser option to fusion. All surgeries come with risks, but pretending that ADR is fraught with them and fusion is safer is flat out wrong.

I never said it was? I said that Eichel is refusing the standard surgery and is still in a hold out because the Sabres don't want to give him the "experimental" surgery.

You're making up stuff I never said. His neck issues are only an issue right now because Eichel doesn't want the standard surgery and the Sabres don't want the new surgery. He's not damaged goods, they just can't come to an agreement on surgery.

 

[iginlafan77]

I was thinking they should send Tkachuk to Buffalo, that is if Eichel was to head to Calgary. But it's pretty much said and done he's headed to Vegas.

Calgary:
Jack Eichel

Buffalo:
Matthew Tkachuk
Jakob Pelleiter
Jusso Valimaki
Cond. 1st based on Eichel playing over 60 games or putting up over 70 points.
Cond. 2nd which may turn into a 1st if Eichel puts up a certain amount of points. If not, it becomes a 2023/2024 2nd.

You're insane man. No way Calgary gives Tkachuk, let alone that many extra assets

 

[57special]

I never said it was? I said that Eichel is refusing the standard surgery and is still in a hold out because the Sabres don't want to give him the "experimental" surgery.

You're making up stuff I never said. His neck issues are only an issue right now because Eichel doesn't want the standard surgery and the Sabres don't want the new surgery. He's not damaged goods, they just can't come to an agreement on surgery.

You specifically said that fusion "works", implying that it was a better choice for a hockey player, and that Eichel was being capricious for not having that surgery. I don't agree. If it was me(especially if i was young and doing vigorous physical activity) I would do ADR all day long. Fusion sucks, it's just what has been available until relatively recently.

The Sabres have created a problem where they didn't need to, since Eichel wasn't going to play a minute for them anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You specifically said that fusion "works", implying that it was a better choice for a hockey player, and that Eichel was being capricious for not having that surgery. I don't agree. If it was me(especially if i was young and doing vigorous physical activity) I would do ADR all day long. Fusion sucks, it's just what has been available until relatively recently.

The Sabres have created a problem where they didn't need to, since Eichel wasn't going to play a minute for them anyway.

You're making up stuff that I didn't say.

I said that one surgery is proven to work and the other surgery is "experimental" in the context that it hasn't been done on a NHLer. Eichel's "neck issues" are solely "they haven't agreed on which surgery he will get". He's not damaged goods.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I wonder if all the injuries to Vegas is making this difficult

 

[RangerBoy]

Through your Rangers colored glasses. Honestly, there have been doozies, but the only team's fans that have been consistently silly in what they are willing to give up are the Rags (or should I say the 2nd coming of the 80's oilers given their incredible, untouchable prospect pool)

If the shoe was on the other foot, the Sabres fans would be offering the same type of packages for a player who has a huge contract and needs neck surgery before he even plays a game for the franchise. You trade for the player and need to wait 4 months or 6 months before he plays a game.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Apparently on the NHL Network Kevin Weekes thinks it is close and that Calgary is the top destination.

He has been linked to half the teams in the league over the last 6 months including the Rangers many times and it was all bullshit. I don't believe any of it until it happens.

 

[NYblades]

He has been linked to half the teams in the league over the last 6 months including the Rangers many times and it was all bullshit. I don't believe any of it until it happens.

A trade is imminent, a framework of a trade is being worked out.

 

[Arkadiusz]

You specifically said that fusion "works", implying that it was a better choice for a hockey player, and that Eichel was being capricious for not having that surgery. I don't agree. If it was me(especially if i was young and doing vigorous physical activity) I would do ADR all day long. Fusion sucks, it's just what has been available until relatively recently.

The Sabres have created a problem where they didn't need to, since Eichel wasn't going to play a minute for them anyway.

When you have invested as much as the Sabres have in an asset like Eichel they are going to want certain assurances from the medical team that the treatment has a good chance of working. Doctors provide those assurances to their boss by referencing previous players (i.e. Letang) who had the surgery and their outcomes are expected to be comparable. The problem with Eichel is there is no comparable surgical outcome precedent for the docs to reference. This uncertainty makes the docs nervous which makes the organization nervous. If Eichel can find a medical team that is comfortable with their organization making such an investment in him being the first to have it done in his profession then make it happen...

 

[LongWayDown37]

If the shoe was on the other foot, the Sabres fans would be offering the same type of packages for a player who has a huge contract and needs neck surgery before he even plays a game for the franchise. You trade for the player and need to wait 4 months or 6 months before he plays a game.

Nah. Discussions with every other fan base has been different. Egocentric ranger fans are a different breed, similar to the Leafs.

 

[57special]

When you have invested as much as the Sabres have in an asset like Eichel they are going to want certain assurances from the medical team that the treatment has a good chance of working. Doctors provide those assurances to their boss by referencing previous players (i.e. Letang) who had the surgery and their outcomes are expected to be comparable. The problem with Eichel is there is no comparable surgical outcome precedent for the docs to reference. This uncertainty makes the docs nervous which makes the organization nervous. If Eichel can find a medical team that is comfortable with their organization making such an investment in him being the first to have it done in his profession then make it happen...

I've heard the rationale over and over again for them wanting him to have fusion. It makes no sense to me.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

You're insane man. No way Calgary gives Tkachuk, let alone that many extra assets

Your insanity is thinking Tkachuk with less than a year under contract and and one year RFA has anywhere near value of 4 plus years at Eichel.

 

[Joe Sakic]

I never said it was? I said that Eichel is refusing the standard surgery and is still in a hold out because the Sabres don't want to give him the "experimental" surgery.

You're making up stuff I never said. His neck issues are only an issue right now because Eichel doesn't want the standard surgery and the Sabres don't want the new surgery. He's not damaged goods, they just can't come to an agreement on surgery.

He’s not putting words in your mouth he’s making his own statements.

He’s informing you.

 

[iginlafan77]

Your insanity is thinking Tkachuk with less than a year under contract and and one year RFA has anywhere near value of 4 plus years at Eichel.

Don't care what you think his value is honestly. I'd be absolutely amazed if the flames included him

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

If the shoe was on the other foot, the Sabres fans would be offering the same type of packages for a player who has a huge contract and needs neck surgery before he even plays a game for the franchise. You trade for the player and need to wait 4 months or 6 months before he plays a game.

With no guarantee that he will resemble the player he was before the major injury and long layoff and surgery recovery.

There's always been a chasm in the discussions around an Eichel trade with Sabres fans expecting (and I can't blame them) the return to be what a healthy and thriving Eichel would warrant when the reality of what Eichel currently is is simply not that.

 

[Jim Bob]

With no guarantee that he will resemble the player he was before the major injury and long layoff and surgery recovery.

There's always been a chasm in the discussions around an Eichel trade with Sabres fans expecting (and I can't blame them) the return to be what a healthy and thriving Eichel would warrant when the reality of what Eichel currently is is simply not that.

Most Sabres fans are already accepting a return that is nowhere near what a healthy Eichel would return. The injury is a major factor and accepting that most grade A prospects are off the table is a downgrade in trade value from what "a healthy and thriving Eichel would warrant."

 

[Ainsy01]

I could see this being close to the return which is funny because it's worse value wise than most of the proposals that fans of interested teams have been laughed at for by Sabres fans.

I'd be very happy as a flames fan if this is all they gave up

 

[Ainsy01]

You're insane man. No way Calgary gives Tkachuk, let alone that many extra assets

Thats not far off what Buffalo should be asking.

You're insane man. No way Calgary gives Tkachuk, let alone that many extra assets

 

[Ainsy01]

Your insanity is thinking Tkachuk with less than a year under contract and and one year RFA has anywhere near value of 4 plus years at Eichel.

Tkachyk would almost have to be part of the deal going back, as they would never be able to re-sign him (and Gaudreau) after acquiring Eichel. If they would send Monahan and Zadorov maybe, but both of them have been hoorrrrrible this season (and most of last) and have close to negative value at this moment in time.

You cant be a cap team and trade futures for 10 million dollar players.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Most Sabres fans are already accepting a return that is nowhere near what a healthy Eichel would return. The injury is a major factor and accepting that most grade A prospects are off the table is a downgrade in trade value from what "a healthy and thriving Eichel would warrant."

Alright well you can tell that to the Sabers fans implying that Rangers fans don't want to give up anything of value when really the only prospects Rangers fans have listed as off limits are Lafreniere, Kakko and Adam Fox who was hilariously included in initial asks from Sabres fans. A trade including 2 of Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Schneider and/or Jones would be featuring 2 of the top 5 prospects in one of the deepest systems in the league.

I didn't even want the Rangers to acquire Eichel and with the contracts signed lately it's clearly not going to happen, but the idea that most Rangers fans didn't want to give anything up in their hypothetical trades is not right.

Kravtsov or Lundkvist or Schneider
Jones
Strome
Georgiev
1st Round pick

1 true blue chip prospect, 1 A- prospect, 50-60 point 2C in his prime, young goalie who has starter potential, 1st round pick.

That's quite the package for a guy who has a 10m AAV in a flat cap environment, is no guarantee to be the player he used to be after the surgery, hasn't played in the NHL in over a year and will be close to 2 by the time he recovers. That's a package I've seen most Rangers fans had been posting or some sort of package along those lines and they would constantly be shouted down by Sabres fans acting like it was a package full of garbage and nothing. IMO that package would be a coup in return for what Jack Eichel is in the here and now.

 

[Pens x]

The league needs a trade to happen yesterday.

 

[Lloydchristmas138]

Alright well you can tell that to the Sabers fans implying that Rangers fans don't want to give up anything of value when really the only prospects Rangers fans have listed as off limits are Lafreniere, Kakko and Adam Fox who was hilariously included in initial asks from Sabres fans. A trade including 2 of Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Schneider and/or Jones would be featuring 2 of the top 5 prospects in one of the deepest systems in the league.

I didn't even want the Rangers to acquire Eichel and with the contracts signed lately it's clearly not going to happen, but the idea that most Rangers fans didn't want to give anything up in their hypothetical trades is not right.

Kravtsov or Lundkvist or Schneider
Jones
Strome
Georgiev
1st Round pick

1 true blue chip prospect, 1 A- prospect, 50-60 point 2C in his prime, young goalie who has starter potential, 1st round pick.

That's quite the package for a guy who has a 10m AAV in a flat cap environment, is no guarantee to be the player he used to be after the surgery, hasn't played in the NHL in over a year and will be close to 2 by the time he recovers. That's a package I've seen most Rangers fans had been posting or some sort of package along those lines and they would constantly be shouted down by Sabres fans acting like it was a package full of garbage and nothing. IMO that package would be a coup in return for what Jack Eichel is in the here and now.

Which one of these players is the blue chip prospect now?

 

[These Are The Days]

Foley knows the team needs to win a cup or keep having deep playoff runs to sustain fan interest. Hence why hes OK with them going all-in like every year.

It has been interesting seeing an expansion team constantly go for the big fish. Usually they just suck for a half decade +.

To sustain interest? I'm probably getting the wrong take from this (so don't be surprised if I am) but Vegas' fanbase isn't gonna abandon the team in droves because "Oh my God they didn't get Stone, Pacioretty, Patrick, Pietrangelo AND Jack Eichel! That's it! That's my breaking point. It was get Eichel or nothing for me. Those deep playoff runs aren't enough for me. Go Raiders" but rather it's ownership being too I hasty. Foley I imagine is a big part in all this. If the fans were that fickle I'd have questioned the wisdom of ever giving Vegas a team and would've pushed for Houston more.

 

[These Are The Days]

Lmao you guys are amateurs. Try doing this exact same thing with total radio silence for a year like the Lightning did with Stamkos but you don't know if he's leaving