Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[mattihp]

It would help if people understood what "circumventing the cap" really means.

Of course it would also help if people realized that if "circumventing the cap" is a thing, it's league-endorsed and it's never doing anything about it beyond a perfunctory no one should do it, we're watching, we're really serious this year statement.

 

[Vegas07]

Lol I wanted to give them a break last year because the rumors were that Stone’s injury was potentially career-threatening but now I don’t know if I even believe that.

They seem to pretty much be a lock for the playoffs but losing their #1 center seems like risking a bad first round matchup. This management definitely doesn’t deserve any more benefit of the doubt though.

Stone being hurt did cost the team a playoff spot in 2022.

 

[Jets]

The fix is simple.

LTIR no longer wipes away the players entire cap hit. Instead, you get the one roster spot back and the cap space relief equivalent to one buried contract (this season it would be 1.15M).

It allows you to add a replacement level player for your lineup without allowing you to freely spend for more top end talent way over the cap.

It's a win for owners because there's less theoretical cap space and salary payouts available. It's a win for players because depth guys and AHL depth is more valuable and get NHL minutes. And most importantly it's a win for the fans because they don't have to watch this LTIR BS and Robidas island retirements every season

 

[Vegas07]

Fun Fact: Vegas' 20 man Game 5 lineup against the Panthers had a cap charge of ~$80.68 mil. ~$1.82 mil under the cap.

A cap in the playoffs doesn't save Winnipeg or Edmonton or Dallas or Florida. The Knights used a chunk of Stone's LTIR on Quick and Blueger. It also allowed them to keep Kessel rather than having to dump him. That's $6.6 mil for 10 registered playoff games combined.

EDIT: Tampa is still the LTIR king. That 20 man Game 5 lineup against Montreal: ~$89.37 mil. ~$7.87 mil over the cap.

Shhhh! That’s too many facts for people to handle. Stop using logic and reason.

 

[Vegas07]

The team didn’t even pick up a star last year during the deadline.

The year before when Eichel was added, he was called a cancer that had possibly a career ending injury which made some other teams afraid to acquire him. It was a major risk getting him. When the 2022 team missed the playoffs, fans pointed to that as proof that the “cancer”killed the team.

The year before that, again no star was added.

If this is an attempt to sabotage the season by putting players on the injured list it would make more sense. The only reason the Oilers haven’t passed the Knights in the standings yet is the team played fewer games.

LA has a great chance to pass the Knights the way things are looking. That leaves the wild card spots or missing the postseason again.

 

[snag]

Imo a good consolation rule with that one would be that the cap only applies to dressed players when it comes to playoffs. A problem with a continuous cap is that trades are the only real way to fix a cap problem, and it would be too odd to have that going on during playoffs


I can't think of a candidate we could do with this though. You can't just make it up, but if there's a player suffering through some issue then we could have them get a treatment of some kind

Maybe Nurse could get a severe ingrown toenail and wait until a few days before end of season to get it removed I remember having one so bad was peeling layers of skin from the swelling. Got it removed and the next day I was stealing second. The reduction in pain was so significant....

Wrap yer toes in tape Darnell!!!

 

[Folignos Helmet]

They should remove the cap after the trade deadline.
Cap is there to be linked to revenue and that split is locked in by the time the trade deadline rolls along. After that it can just slide around between teams.
Would create a lot more movement and interest at deadline.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

anyone else think of Arrested Development every time they see they see this thread?

 

[hangman005]

I just imagine this is how some fans view injuries, especially Vegas injuries

 

[mattihp]

anyone else think of Arrested Development every time they see they see this thread?

Yes, I already posted that clip earlier

 

[Oddbob]

I don't get the issue. EVERY TEAM can do this!

 

[Chaos2k7]

Vegas is being singled out because of recency bias.

There was Tampa before and Chicago before that... if any franchise cared to bring it to the BOG it would have been fixed/closed however you want to see it.

 

[hangman005]

Vegas is being singled out because of recency bias.

There was Tampa before and Chicago before that... if any franchise cared to bring it to the BOG it would have been fixed/closed however you want to see it.

I mean didn't Tampa do that and the rest of the teams were like nah it's good. In which case it's fair game.

 

[Voight]

Simple if you cannot come off LTIR 2 weeks before end of the season, you are ineligible for the playoffs

This is incredibly stupid.

If a player breaks his arm in mid March and is out until the end of April, why should he lose his playoff eligibility?

 

[Chaos2k7]

I mean didn't Tampa do that and the rest of the teams were like nah it's good. In which case it's fair game.

We played and lost to those Bolts too.

No Panthers fan believes the loss in the SCF was cap compliancy related.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don’t understand why the league doesn’t just lean into this instead of keeping the shitty grey area LTIR loophole and contract graveyard teams. Just make cap space a tradeable asset, if a contender wants to trade a 1st for 5mil of Arizona’s cap space this year and another 1st+ for a player to fill that cap space, let them do it instead of playing LTIR + double retention games to accomplish the same thing in more steps. Contenders will peak higher but shorter, the playoffs and trade deadline will be more exciting, and rebuilding teams can turn short term cap space they aren’t using into rebuild accelerating assets.

Tampa’s Coleman + Goodrow trades were good but those players only got those returns because of their cap hits, no one’s tuning in to watch them play 15 responsible minutes. Same assets spent on buying 2 years of cap space and a big name to hide on the 3rd line makes a better playoff viewing product.

 

[Bender]

To be fair, the league did tell the other 31 teams NOT to do this!!!

 

[biturbo19]

This is quickly being established as "The Magic Formula" for a Cup win.

Just rest a big salary player down the stretch so you can add a ton of other cap to really "load up" for a run. Then activate them fresh when the playoffs start and the salary cap disappears.


Tampa really unlocked a Pandora's Box with what they did. Now it's out there and it's just a question of which teams have guys who will play ball, and if things fall just right to make it look halfway convincing.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Incoming Konency trade

Vegas doesn't have the assets for that.

NHL allows it. Why wouldn't they take advantage.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Just get rid of the cap. Or put in a luxury tax so the poor franchises can survive.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Not quite that simple.

Most playoff teams are above the cap based on salary aav in the playoffs, because they accrue cap space during the season so they can spend at the deadline.

Make it hard cap for the playoffs, kill the trade deadline. And the ad dollars that go with it.

Maybe you can do somthing like the offseason where you can exceed by 10% so it's not so egregious? Not sure.

If you miss all the games from the trade deadline to the playoffs you miss the entire first round? Ensures a team can be cap compliant by the time playoffs start?

This is exactly what I was going to say, hard cap but with a 10-20% cushion that you can go over in playoffs

 

[Czechboy]

put me in the category if a Canadian team did this one time let alone 2? The NHL would step in right away

absolutely.. in fact, if Toronto did this.. not only would they stop it mid season but Edmonton would have to give Calgary several draft picks.

 

[Czechboy]

So I had an angry LV fan last night explaining that it is not reallly true and that only Oiler fans get mad about this. So, few things,

1. I'm an Oiler fan
2. I think it is hillarious that teams pull this off in broad daylight in front of everyone and keep typing 'if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying'. I didn't mind when Tampa did it. In fact, I wish the Oil could do it this Spring!

Here is my question. The counter (and it's above) is that LV was under the cap for the Finals. Great.. were they under the cap in rounds 1, 2 and 3? Seems like an odd place to draw the line - in our 14th playoff game, we weren't over the cap. What about the games before that one because I assume an injury happened in the finals to put the team below the cap and not sort of guilty conscience and the GM saying 'no, let's not ice our best possible roster so Oil fans on HF aren't mad'. Am I close?

 

[alphahelix]

just eliminate LTIR for the last day of the season, make everything count as regular IR. You just have to force compliance once post-TDL so teams dont pre-plan to weasel around it. Then no cap in playoffs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's not circumvention if It's legal