Toggle sidebar

Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

AvroArrow said:
Option 1 is fair, if it is truly a long term injury and you don't expect him back ? Cool out for the year you get full cap relief.

Why is it fair for a team to put a 10M guy on LTIR, add another 10M guy, then get the original guy back ? You expect that player back for a playoff push, cool, make your roster cap compliant.

NFLPA agreed to option 3 so there is a possibility the NHLPA would.
Click to expand...
I think LTIR is great in situations where the player is done, like Ferland in Vancouver, Price in Montreal. Teams should absolutely get relief. But if a player has any chance of coming back during the season, regular or playoffs, teams should have to keep the cap hit on the books.

It seems unfair that if a team loses a player before the trade deadline to an injury they can add a player a d use both players but if said player was hurt after the deadline they wouldn't be able to add a player outside of their organization.
The spirit of the rule has always been to allow a team to replace the injured player until the healthy player returns or until said contract is off the books. It was never designed to allow teams to get their cake and eat it too.

A team shouldn't get an advantage because a big contract was hurt before the deadline and not after. That's my biggest issue.

I don't blame Vegas but making the cap a thing in the playoffs solves all the problems who cares if the players don't get paid for playoffs, why does that matter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AvroArrow
Tawnos said:
The NHLPA doesn't have to "suck it and deal" with anything. If the league wants to do anything about this, which isn't even really clear that they do, they'll have to give the players concessions to do so.

If you're going to apply the cap in the playoffs, you better pay the players in the playoffs too.
Click to expand...
The players already get paid their portion of Hockey Related Revenue from their annual salaries which includes playoff gate revenue.

The Owners just don't care enough to fix anything as long as they get their split.
 
Hale The Villain said:
You may be surprised to find out that NHL players often play injured or not at 100% in the playoffs, even though they wouldn't risk doing it during the regular season with nothing on the line.

Stone could play game 1 but does that mean he's 100% healthy come game day? Doubtful. Lacerated spleens usually take more than a month to heal fully.
Click to expand...
And you may be surprised to find out that 9 out of 10 non Vegas fans knew this would happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PuckG and Pass the Saitl Sauce
Chaos2k7 said:
I don't think it has anything to do with what I personally desire, but its strange that during the regular season you cannot ice a team over X amount, but in the postseason you seemingly can.

If that seems to you like they are policing the cap the same throughout the full league year, we disagree.
Click to expand...
Players don’t get paid for playoffs, that’s why there are black aces, and expanded rosters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leksand
Chaos2k7 said:
This is why I understand the sentiment from opposing fans and from the Vegas fans themselves, this is a self inflicted rules gaff by the league and PA.

It just is what it is at this point, but I do think they will address it next round.
Click to expand...
Vegas was cap compliant every playoff game last year according to GM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leksand
Bonham said:
The players already get paid their portion of Hockey Related Revenue from their annual salaries which includes playoff gate revenue.

The Owners just don't care enough to fix anything as long as they get their split.
Click to expand...

It's hyperbole to make a point. When I was a kid, my dad was a teacher with a yearly salary, but he only received paychecks during the school year. So while he got an annual salary, he didn't get paid during summer break. But thanks for explaining HRR to me anyway.
 
HamiltonNHL said:
If i'm signing a high AAV player, I'm asking for a "Mark Stone" clause. Where my team doctors can force a player to shut down before the trade deadline to help with cap circumvention.
Click to expand...
Lmao, ya doc could you rupture my spleen for me, so we can create some cap room before playoffs.
Thanks for the laughs.
 
200.webp
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: tfwnogf, Czechboy and kingsholygrail
Tawnos said:
Sorry, but that 2nd idea essentially does away with LTIR, which no one wants. It's not a viable concept.

And the first absolutely does prevent healthy players from playing. It also creates a situation where a team expects a player back for the 2nd round, but is forced to put out a diminished roster in the first round to accommodate for that possibility. Let's leave Stone for a second and look at Filip Chytil. He was back skating with the team today after being out with a concussion since November. As far as it seems right now, it's still pretty unlikely that he's going to be available for the first round. They used some of his LTIR space to acquire Alex Wennberg and some of it, combined with Blake Wheeler's LTIR space, to acquire Jack Roslovic.

Your idea creates a situation where the Rangers would be considering activating Chytil from LTIR and keeping Wennberg or Roslovic off the roster, or keeping those latter two on the roster and saying that even if Chytil is healthy enough to play in round 2, he won't be able to. What mechanism would there be to even keep the acquisitions from playing? They aren't hurt, so you can't put them on any kind of IR.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. They would keep the roster as it was without being to use the LTIR player.
LTIR is meant to allow for teams to replace a player that they realistically don't expect to be back. Or if a player suffers a career ending injury, not to milk out an injury until the cap no longer applies.
There should never be a situation where, 11m player gets injured, but is going to come back for the PO, and the team then spends that 11m on players at the deadline and then starts crying but we wanted our 11m player for the PO too.
There doesn't need to be a mechanism outside of if you didn't activate the LTIR player for the last day, then he cannot dress for a game. there's no roster limits in the PO so it's not like they lose anything by having him move to regular IR on the last day of the season.
I don't generally have an issue with LTIR but Vegas has gotten brazen enough with it that it does need to be fixed.

If the NHL season is 100 days,
If the players is going to play in the PO, he needs to be on a cap compliant roster on the last business day of the season. moving him to regular IR doesn't use a roster spot so no issue there but waivers are still in effect so they can't just bury players to open space to dress him.

No games get scheduled on day 100, LTIR players get "activated" to regular IR. If they cannot be cap compliant on day 100 with the LTIR players activated, then the LTIR player can't play in the PO. players aren't paid for the PO so no money is lost by the player and If you're expecting a LTIR player back for the season, you shouldn't be using all of the LTIR pool on deadline pickups.

the 2nd idea doesn't do away with LTIR, it gives teams that lose a player a buffer (~2m) to replace a player, it doesn't give a team a 10m cap increase that can be dispersed across the roster, because again the idea of LTIR is to replace that player, not give the roster an entire face lift with it, which is what has been happening instead.

Yet another option is that LTIR open up salary to be spent on 1 player up to the players cap hit.
So in the case of Stone, they could add 1 player at up to 9.5m. but not add 2 players with a 4.5m cap hit. It would let them add Hertl but not Hanifin (or vice versa)

There's many options to fix it, teams like Vegas, Tampa and Chicago have milked it because they were fortunate enough to have an significant salaried player get injured around the deadline for about long enough to milk it to the PO when the cap no longer applies. Which would typically be a 1 off, but Vegas has just gotten so blatantly obvious with it at this point though that it needs to be addressed, you have healthy players sitting out game 80/81/82 because they wouldn't be cap compliant.... i mean they're "unhealthy" and somehow 100% healthy 2-3days later for the game 1 of the PO.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jets
Canadienna said:
I'm just waiting for the first deadline "mental health" LTIR, to come back for the playoffs.

As far as I understand this would be possible too.
Click to expand...
And …. the GM announces at the deadline …. he’ll be out until 8 days before playoffs.
 
M88K said:
No it doesn't. They would keep the roster as it was without being to use the LTIR player.
LTIR is meant to allow for teams to replace a player that they realistically don't expect to be back. Or if a player suffers a career ending injury, not to milk out an injury until the cap no longer applies.
There should never be a situation where, 11m player gets injured, but is going to come back for the PO, and the team then spends that 11m on players at the deadline and then starts crying but we wanted our 11m player for the PO too.
There doesn't need to be a mechanism outside of if you didn't activate the LTIR player for the last day, then he cannot dress for a game. there's no roster limits in the PO so it's not like they lose anything by having him move to regular IR on the last day of the season.
I don't generally have an issue with LTIR but Vegas has gotten brazen enough with it that it does need to be fixed.

If the NHL season is 100 days,
If the players is going to play in the PO, he needs to be on a cap compliant roster on the last business day of the season. moving him to regular IR doesn't use a roster spot so no issue there but waivers are still in effect so they can't just bury players to open space to dress him.

No games get scheduled on day 100, LTIR players get "activated" to regular IR. If they cannot be cap compliant on day 100 with the LTIR players activated, then the LTIR player can't play in the PO. players aren't paid for the PO so no money is lost by the player and If you're expecting a LTIR player back for the season, you shouldn't be using all of the LTIR pool on deadline pickups.

the 2nd idea doesn't do away with LTIR, it gives teams that lose a player a buffer (~2m) to replace a player, it doesn't give a team a 10m cap increase that can be dispersed across the roster, because again the idea of LTIR is to replace that player, not give the roster an entire face lift with it, which is what has been happening instead.

Yet another option is that LTIR open up salary to be spent on 1 player up to the players cap hit.
So in the case of Stone, they could add 1 player at up to 9.5m. but not add 2 players with a 4.5m cap hit. It would let them add Hertl but not Hanifin (or vice versa)

There's many options to fix it, teams like Vegas, Tampa and Chicago have milked it because they were fortunate enough to have an significant salaried player get injured around the deadline for about long enough to milk it to the PO when the cap no longer applies. Which would typically be a 1 off, but Vegas has just gotten so blatantly obvious with it at this point that though it needs to be addressed, you have healthy players sitting out game 80/81/82 because they wouldn't be cap compliant.... i mean they're "unhealthy" and somehow 100% healthy 2-3days later for the game 1 of the PO.
Click to expand...

There's too much wrong here about how this stuff actually works to respond to, so I'm only going to respond to the "LTIR is meant to allow for teams to replace a player that they realistically don't expect to be back." That's entirely untrue. LTIR is 100% intended to ensure teams can keep putting out a similar quality team even when they're going to be without someone for a while. It's 10 games and 24 days, not however long is left in the season.

Like I said earlier, I'm not saying this is fair or isn't a problem. I'm saying it's not really something that can be solved... and certainly not easily.
 
Tawnos said:
There's too much wrong here about how this stuff actually works to respond to, so I'm only going to respond to the "LTIR is meant to allow for teams to replace a player that they realistically don't expect to be back." That's entirely untrue. LTIR is 100% intended to ensure teams can keep putting out a similar quality team even when they're going to be without someone for a while. It's 10 games and 24 days, not however long is left in the season.

Like I said earlier, I'm not saying this is fair or isn't a problem. I'm saying it's not really something that can be solved... and certainly not easily.
Click to expand...
There's actually not much wrong with it, other than you thinking that a team should be entitled to spend the 9.5m players LTIR pool and then still get the dress that player when they're healthy during the season/po.
It's a very easy solution. LTIR requires the player to miss 10 days or 24games. If a player is missing 11 games which would qualify for LTIR, the teams aren't going shopping for 9.5m in players to add for those 11 games, then saying "why can't dress our now healthy player" and still keep our other 9.5m in players.
They call up a minor league or dress a player that would otherwise be eating HS for those 10-11 games, and activate the player when he's healthy
that is the purpose of LTIR is to replace the player for as long as need be (years in the case of say Price) or short (given the minimums) as needed.
It's morphed into basically a gift card at the deadline to go shopping for massive roster improvements, and then still getting to use the player once the cap is no longer in effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jets and stampedingviking
Honestly, hard to take this league seriously after this if they keep it happening.
2 of the franchises thats won in the past few years have now done this, Vegas keeps on doing it..Doesnt seem right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlackDogg
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom