Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[tapi]

The question is can other teams be blamed should they attempt to send Stone to the LTIR for real to compensate for the blatant exploitation of a loophole.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Imagine if Stone tried to pull this in the 90s

He’d be stretchered off the ice so fast

 

[rsteen]

This will get closed by the league next CBA. I can guarantee you that.

Not so easy to close it without either completely redesigning how the cap works, or risking major pushback from the NHLPA by forcing players to sit out playoff games for cap reasons.

Up till now it's been more trouble than it's worth to address it. I haven't seen anything from anyone like Friedman that suggests they have even thought of a good solution for it.

 

[Laus723]

I’ll be cheering more for Dallas than I ever have in my life.

 

[TLEH]

Not so easy to close it without either completely redesigning how the cap works, or risking major pushback from the NHLPA by forcing players to sit out playoff games for cap reasons.

Up till now it's been more trouble than it's worth to address it. I haven't seen anything from anyone like Friedman that suggests they have even thought of a good solution for it.

Players wouldn't be forced to sit out games for cap reasons because the GMs wouldn't build teams at the deadline they knew they couldn't ice.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Not so easy to close it without either completely redesigning how the cap works, or risking major pushback from the NHLPA by forcing players to sit out playoff games for cap reasons.

Up till now it's been more trouble than it's worth to address it. I haven't seen anything from anyone like Friedman that suggests they have even thought of a good solution for it.

It's not so much that it has been more trouble than it's worth to address, it is more the fact that it can't be addressed until the new CBA begins to take shape.

 

[bobholly39]

The cheating is not using LTIR. It is when the player says "Ouch. It still hurts" until game 82 is played and then suddenly it doesn't hurt anymore by game 1 of the playoffs.

I never really had an issue with that though.

Only if the "ouch it hurts" is legitimate. If it's fake - obviously that's different, as you can't fake injuries. So if it hurts - why rush to play with....2-3 games to go, when you're qualified for playoffs already, vs getting a full extra 1-2 weeks to rest up and heal further?

It's less about cheating, then taking extra time to come back completely 100%.

And even then...is Mark Stone 100% for game 1? Or is he only at....90%, but returning early bc it's playoffs?

 

[rsteen]

Players wouldn't be forced to sit out games for cap reasons because the GMs wouldn't build teams at the deadline they knew they couldn't ice.

So the Avs shouldn't have signed Drouin or whoever, on the off-chance that Landeskog could come back during the playoffs?

Fans and GMs aren't going to be happy with that either.

 

[I am toxic]

This is hilarious. I've been laughing at this for 5 minutes straight.

 

[Daximus]

This is hilarious. I've been laughing at this for 5 minutes straight.

Like clockwork.

 

[Strangle]

Can we all just finally admit that if teams are forced to make up stories and play these games in order to try to find a competitive advantage that the problem really lies with the cap itself?

Like, the cap is just totally garbage. That’s what leads to this

Also, I guess I’m a doctor now, I predicted this recovery without once even seeing the patient!

 

[TLEH]

So the Avs shouldn't have signed Drouin or whoever, on the off-chance that Landeskog could come back during the playoffs?

Fans and GMs aren't going to be happy with that either.

I mean there is a salary cap for a reason. You don't just get to add unlimited players. You add who you can add under the set salary cap. If Landeskog comes back and they think his value at his dollar is worth adding, then they waive or move money around to make it work in the regular season. Why would it be any different in the playoffs? Makes zero sense.

 

[Strangle]

I personally don't provide a solution because there aren't any good and fair solution that doesn't involve a complete rehaul of the cap system and potentially escrow.

And I don't have as strong an opinion as many on this whole ltir thing as a whole. I'm fine if it stays the way it is.

But then if you're fine with it, why not just cut out the middle man and give everyone an extra $10-$16 million in cap at the deadline?

Why bother playing this game? If the league is fine with it, then just facilitate it

A 99 page thread about how Vegas is cheating, how unfair it is, how horrible for the league it is, it gives Vegas a big advantage, someone should injure Stone because this is so horrible, etc.

But I just checked and only 21.8% of posters on the forum think Vegas will win in the first round. Ask how many think Vegas will win the first 2 rounds or make the Finals again and the number would be even lower.

Vegas fans first time in a 100 page thread about bashing their team

From Leaf fans: First time?

 

[TLEH]

I can't even believe this is an argument. Its perfectly fine what they are doing. It shouldn't be something you can do. The salary cap exists for a reason. Lawyers and the league should find a solution with the NHLPA and we should move on from this era.

 

[Senor Catface]

The cheating is not using LTIR. It is when the player says "Ouch. It still hurts" until game 82 is played and then suddenly it doesn't hurt anymore by game 1 of the playoffs.

You Oiler fans never stop complaining!!!

 

[EpochLink]

Man knows how to get injured at the right time then go on the Barry Bonds diet of eating fruits and vegetables to make a miracle comeback

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Can we all just finally admit that if teams are forced to make up stories and play these games in order to try to find a competitive advantage that the problem really lies with the cap itself?

No. If we all admitted that, this thread wouldn't be 104 pages and counting.

Not to mention, the problem isn't with the cap. It's with enforcement of LTIR re: players who are able to play. Which, is a problem because some fans have a belief of how that should work and the league pretty clearly has a different belief, and those fans think the league should do whatever they want and ignore any other fans who want something else.

 

[TLEH]

No. If we all admitted that, this thread wouldn't be 104 pages and counting.

Not to mention, the problem isn't with the cap. It's with enforcement of LTIR re: players who are able to play. Which, is a problem because some fans have a belief of how that should work and the league pretty clearly has a different belief, and those fans think the league should do whatever they want and ignore any other fans who want something else.

I don't think anyone really knows what the league thinks about this.

 

[rsteen]

I mean there is a salary cap for a reason. You don't just get to add unlimited players. You add who you can add under the set salary cap. If Landeskog comes back and they think his value at his dollar is worth adding, then they waive or move money around to make it work in the regular season. Why would it be any different in the playoffs? Makes zero sense.

Well, what if they don't think he'll come back or don't think his value is worth adding? Then they can't bring him back even if he's healthy. There's no way to move someone else during the playoffs to make room.

That's the scenario that the PA won't like.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I don't think anyone really knows what the league thinks about this.

I think if the league really thought it was a problem, it would have moved to do something before now. Or, it knows there's a problem but it's not really egregious in some unexplainable way such that it has to take action.

Either way, the league already holds the power to do something if it thinks there's a problem, just like it had the power to void submitted contracts that were pretty obviously intended to circumvent the cap before New Jersey lobbed the Kovalchuk contract. It just lacks the desire to exercise that power, just like it lacked the desire to exercise that power on all the other prior ultra-long, back-diving front-loaded contracts until the Kovalchuk one.

 

[TLEH]

Well, what if they don't think he'll come back or don't think his value is worth adding? Then they can't bring him back even if he's healthy. There's no way to move someone else during the playoffs to make room.

That's the scenario that the PA won't like.

If they don’t think he’ll come back, but he does, in the regular season, What do they do? They make room. If it’s the regular season and he’s healthy and they don’t think he’s going to help them, they can buy him out, or eat the cap, or trade him, just like all other shitty contracts in the league. Tell me why LTIR means they get all this extra flexibility?

I think if the league really thought it was a problem, it would have moved to do something before now. Or, it knows there's a problem but it's not really egregious in some unexplainable way such that it has to take action.

Either way, the league already holds the power to do something if it thinks there's a problem, just like it had the power to void submitted contracts that were pretty obviously intended to circumvent the cap before New Jersey lobbed the Kovalchuk contract. It just lacks the desire to exercise that power, just like it lacked the desire to exercise that power on all the other prior ultra-long, back-diving front-loaded contracts until the Kovalchuk one.

Have they signed a CBA or made any statements since this has become a very real phenomenon. I’d argue this year is the first year that it’s become apparent that this is a plan rather than taking advantage of good timing.

They haven’t. So we can’t really say what the league thinks of this now.

 

[Laus723]

https://Twitter.com/v3ktorious/status/1782502813064405242?s=46&t=tX6XMMwg4PCcO2lfB5kT3g

Voice over made by a buddy.

 

[The Great Weal]

The cheating is not using LTIR. It is when the player says "Ouch. It still hurts" until game 82 is played and then suddenly it doesn't hurt anymore by game 1 of the playoffs.

How do you know that he's not hurt anymore? LTIR loophole aside, of course a guy will put himself through hell to play in the playoffs as opposed to game 82 of the regular season when his team has already clinched. This loophole does need to be addressed but you can't disregard the fact that he can still be injured but will play through it. Carey Price and Shea Weber ended their careers playing through significant injuries for a playoff run while still performing at a very high level.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Have they signed a CBA or made any statements since this has become a very real phenomenon. I’d argue this year is the first year that it’s become apparent that this is a plan rather than taking advantage of good timing.

Kane in 2015 was allegedly an issue, and then there was the whole 2020 shutdown that brought about a MOU that tweaked things here and there. They could have done something then.

And if you think this is the first year that "it's become apparent that this is a plan rather than taking advantage of good timing" you should search threads from a year ago when people swore to f***ing God it was a plan and not just good timing.

Quit trying to search for deeper meanings and attribute complex thought processes, and look at this really simply: (1) no one thought about it years back, or even in 2020, (2) even when it happened, no one thought it was a big deal, (3) even with events of 2021, no one still thought it was a big deal, (4) the league knows how things look and [still] isn't doing anything. You have to ask yourself why, and the simplest explanation is "it doesn't care" because it absolutely has the power to do something about it if it really thinks something is wrong.

Like I've said a number of times: quit bitching and complaining about the rules you wish were in place, play within the rules as they're being enforced and make the best of that. That second approach is going to get you a hell of a lot farther than the first.

 

[Vegas07]

The question is can other teams be blamed should they attempt to send Stone to the LTIR for real to compensate for the blatant exploitation of a loophole.

This will help Vegas circumvent the cap next year too. They can say Stone has another injury that we know is an injury.