Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[rsteen]

If they don’t think he’ll come back, but he does, in the regular season, What do they do? They make room. If it’s the regular season and he’s healthy and they don’t think he’s going to help them, they can buy him out, or eat the cap, or trade him, just like all other shitty contracts in the league. Tell me why LTIR means they get all this extra flexibility?

There's no way to make room during the playoffs. They can't make a trade. That's where they open themselves up to a grievance from the PA because you haven't left them an option other than sitting a healthy player.
And if he comes back during the regular season, they can't buy him out during the season so that's not accurate either.

 

[BB88]

Over the cap vs. Legal roster isn't really the core debate for is this cheating?

The cheating part is having a healthy player on LTIR, even if it is just ONE game longer than the player's health required.

Everyone knows he wasn’t too injured to play in game 82, he was too expensive to play

Which makes this utter bs, that the bs excuses go through

The cheating is not using LTIR. It is when the player says "Ouch. It still hurts" until game 82 is played and then suddenly it doesn't hurt anymore by game 1 of the playoffs.

Player on ltir should miss out the 1st week of the playoffs, as in player put on ir

You can’t be too injured to play in the last regular season game yet the next day literally be cleared

 

[RobBrown4PM]

This will get closed by the league next CBA. I can guarantee you that.

If it was one of the CDN teams doing it, in a heart beat.

But it's Las Vegas so, snake eyes.

 

[bossram]

Everyone knows he wasn’t too injured to play in game 82, he was too expensive to play

Which makes this utter bs, that the bs excuses go through



Player on ltir should miss out the 1st week of the playoffs, as in player put on ir

You can’t be too injured to play in the last regular season game yet the next day literally be cleared

This is an incredibly stupid standard.

Every team has like 5+ guys who are playing through something in the playoffs that they otherwise wouldn't in the regular season. Your standard is that either they should be forced to return early in the regular season, or that they should be forced to sit in the playoffs.

Say goodbye to half of every team's roster.

If it was one of the CDN teams doing it, in a heart beat.

But it's Las Vegas so, snake eyes.

This is dumb.

VAN did this in 2011. A *gasp* Canadian team! Edler was injured at a "convenient" time to reactivate Salo from the LTIR when they were over the cap, and Edler miraculously returns for the playoffs. They go on to the Final.

There have been TWO CBA negotiations since then, and nothing has changed. CHI and TB both famously used this mechanism to win Cups.

It's in the CBA because players and the league want it. It's not a "loophole". It's by design.

If you're going to make some claims against it, at least be informed first and not talking BS.

 

[eramosat]

No matter what your POV is, it's become crystal-clear to fans who care, and who watch their teams make numerous decisions during the regular season that are constrained by the salary cap, that seeing teams then get out from underneath that major constraint and doing what other teams are not allowed to do?

That has to change somehow. It's simply not professional enough for fans to continue to "believe". Multiple, major LTIR sidelined stars coming back to play on the first day of the playoffs is not believable. Stretching the most important rules to their breaking limit is what's believable, and it's unsustainable.

And if another Cup-winning team flaunts that fact in the face of league fans with sarcastic T-shirts? And idiot interviews? Bush-league status endures.

 

[bossram]

The cheating is not using LTIR. It is when the player says "Ouch. It still hurts" until game 82 is played and then suddenly it doesn't hurt anymore by game 1 of the playoffs.

Yes. Guys are willing to play through a lot more in the playoffs.

Everyone lauds Bergeron playing with a punctured lung in the playoffs. You think he was gonna do that in the regular season?

It's a ridiculous standard. By the final, half the guys on each roster have such debilitating injuries that if it were the regular season, they would all be on the LTIR. But it's the playoffs, so you know they'll try to gut it out. But if this happens in RD1, it's apparently the end of the world.

Like I've said a number of times: quit bitching and complaining about the rules you wish were in place, play within the rules as they're being enforced and make the best of that. That second approach is going to get you a hell of a lot farther than the first.

This x1000. People gotta stop complaining. Seriously.

The rules are the same for every team. If your favourite team is not maximizing their roster given the rules in place, blame your GM.

 

[bossram]

Here is my opinion on it.

1) they are using the rules as they see fit. I'm fine with it in general.
2) I think that once you do it two or three times, its becomes more planned than it does just taking advantage of a situation, and thats where the problem lies for me.

Well, they did it twice.

The "third" time it happened Stone came back during the regular season, so the Knights had to be cap compliant. Which undermines the dumb-dumb "cap circumvention" arguments from people.

I mean, did they rig Stone's spleen laceration this year? Seems like a bizarre injury to fake.

 

[TLEH]

Well, they did it twice.

The "third" time it happened Stone came back during the regular season, so the Knights had to be cap compliant. Which undermines the dumb-dumb "cap circumvention" arguments from people.

I mean, did they rig Stone's spleen laceration this year? Seems like a bizarre injury to fake.

No one said he faked his injury.

Kane in 2015 was allegedly an issue, and then there was the whole 2020 shutdown that brought about a MOU that tweaked things here and there. They could have done something then.

And if you think this is the first year that "it's become apparent that this is a plan rather than taking advantage of good timing" you should search threads from a year ago when people swore to f***ing God it was a plan and not just good timing.

Quit trying to search for deeper meanings and attribute complex thought processes, and look at this really simply: (1) no one thought about it years back, or even in 2020, (2) even when it happened, no one thought it was a big deal, (3) even with events of 2021, no one still thought it was a big deal, (4) the league knows how things look and [still] isn't doing anything. You have to ask yourself why, and the simplest explanation is "it doesn't care" because it absolutely has the power to do something about it if it really thinks something is wrong.

Like I've said a number of times: quit bitching and complaining about the rules you wish were in place, play within the rules as they're being enforced and make the best of that. That second approach is going to get you a hell of a lot farther than the first.

Not sure you’ve read my posts very well. Where did I bitch about what they are doing? I literally called it fine and within the rules three times. I’m clearly talking about in the future. They literally should be doing it. That has nothing to do with what I’m arguing for in the future.

 

[Voight]

LTIR is not the conspiracy some on here think it is.

The system is fine. People want to complain because Vegas won last year and were able t add Hertl this year.

Stone is injury prone. Would it be any better had he broken his leg in January?

 

[Laus723]

Well, they did it twice.

The "third" time it happened Stone came back during the regular season, so the Knights had to be cap compliant. Which undermines the dumb-dumb "cap circumvention" arguments from people.

I mean, did they rig Stone's spleen laceration this year? Seems like a bizarre injury to fake.

What? They didn’t have Hanifin and Hertl earlier in the season.

Stone back for game 1 is an awful look and is as bad as doucherov wearing his shirt after they won the 2nd Covid cup. It’s shoving it in people’s faces.

LTIR is not the conspiracy some on here think it is.

The system is fine. People want to complain because Vegas won last year and were able t add Hertl this year.

Stone is injury prone. Would it be any better had he broken his leg in January?

Is he still back for game 1? It’s 3 years in a row.

 

[TLEH]

There's no way to make room during the playoffs. They can't make a trade. That's where they open themselves up to a grievance from the PA because you haven't left them an option other than sitting a healthy player.
And if he comes back during the regular season, they can't buy him out during the season so that's not accurate either.

Correct about the buyout. I was more speaking about what you do if you have a healthy player that is taking up cap that isn’t contributing.

 

[Voight]

What? They didn’t have Hanifin and Hertl earlier in the season.

Stone back for game 1 is an awful look and is as bad as doucherov wearing his shirt after they won the 2nd Covid cup. It’s shoving it in people’s faces.


Is he still back for game 1? It’s 3 years in a row.

Maybe hes still hurt and you know, players usually put their bodies through hell in the playoffs?

 

[Laus723]

Maybe ehe still hurt and you know, players usually put their bodies through hell in the playoffs?

Ah, that’s all it is. What a team player.

 

[I am toxic]

Three years straight.

In 2022, when Vegas risked missing the playoffs, they activated Stone to play regular season games on April 12, placing Brossoit, Carrier and Patrick on LTIR to make room.

Same intent as 2023 and 2024, just had to bring Stone back early in a failed attempt to make the playoffs in 2022.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Not sure you’ve read my posts very well.

I've read your posts really well. Maybe you should do a better job of explaining yourself, and maybe understand that things like this:

I was more speaking about what you do if you have a healthy player that is taking up cap that isn’t contributing.

is irrelevant to the question of what to do with a player who get parked on LTIR through the end of the season and then comes off for the playoffs. Even if it happens two years in a row to the same player.

Especially when you express a lack of knowledge about why cap hits for players on LTIR get treated differently from players in the lineup who just suck ass but it's past the trade deadline so the options are "assign him to the minors" where he may still count some against the cap, or "suck it up, hope he gets his head out of his ass."

Again, if there's a problem here then please explain better. Or, ask questions and some of us will try to help inform. TIA.

Is he still back for game 1? It’s 3 years in a row.

2 years in a row, because ... as has been pointed out several times now ... he came back with 9 games to play in 2022, and Vegas didn't make the playoffs that year.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

But then if you're fine with it, why not just cut out the middle man and give everyone an extra $10-$16 million in cap at the deadline?

Why bother playing this game? If the league is fine with it, then just facilitate it



Vegas fans first time in a 100 page thread about bashing their team

From Leaf fans: First time?

Giving everyone an extra 10-16m doesn't solve anything that people might have an issue with (it just changes the upper limit thus would increase salaries instead), and has escrow ramifications.

 

[TLEH]

I've read your posts really well. Maybe you should do a better job of explaining yourself, and maybe understand that things like this:


is irrelevant to the question of what to do with a player who get parked on LTIR through the end of the season and then comes off for the playoffs. Even if it happens two years in a row to the same player.

Especially when you express a lack of knowledge about why cap hits for players on LTIR get treated differently from players in the lineup who just suck ass but it's past the trade deadline so the options are "assign him to the minors" where he may still count some against the cap, or "suck it up, hope he gets his head out of his ass."

Again, if there's a problem here then please explain better. Or, ask questions and some of us will try to help inform. TIA.


2 years in a row, because ... as has been pointed out several times now ... he came back with 9 games to play in 2022, and Vegas didn't make the playoffs that year.

You said I was bitching about this year and talked about the rules in place for this year, not the rules we “want in place” so I’m not so sure that’s correct. Lol. Especially when every single post of mine has been about the future, and you continue to talk about this year.

I’ve already said I support what they are doing this year. It’s the rules. If your GM isn’t abusing them then you need a new one. I’ve only ever talked about the fact that it’s now a proven plan to use LTIR and load up into the post season. Everyone could see what was going to happen at the TDL.

I never sat here and said you just have cap in the postseason either. It’s more complicated than that, but the way it is now I don’t think is the intended rule, so I said the NHL and lawyers should come up with a plan to make it more competitively balanced. There is a salary cap for a reason.

 

[bossram]

No one said he faked his injury.

So then it's within the rules! Why are people complaining?

 

[TheBeard]

This is an incredibly stupid standard.

Every team has like 5+ guys who are playing through something in the playoffs that they otherwise wouldn't in the regular season. Your standard is that either they should be forced to return early in the regular season, or that they should be forced to sit in the playoffs.

Say goodbye to half of every team's roster.

If the decision is influenced in ANY way by the cap circumstance then it’s a problem. No doubt it it wasn’t a cap crunch Stone would have played in the Chicago and Anaheim games at least as an opportunity to get his legs under him again.

That’s a problem.

So then it's within the rules! Why are people complaining?

See above.

 

[bossram]

What? They didn’t have Hanifin and Hertl earlier in the season.

Stone back for game 1 is an awful look and is as bad as doucherov wearing his shirt after they won the 2nd Covid cup. It’s shoving it in people’s faces.


Is he still back for game 1? It’s 3 years in a row.

No. As I said before, you are wrong. In 2022, he came back in the regular season.

You and others keep saying Vegas did it "three times". This is simply factually incorrect.

 

[Oilslick941611]

So then it's within the rules! Why are people complaining?

Hiding a healthy player on LTIR. If he’s fine for tonight, he was fine for Vegas’s last game of the season.

 

[TLEH]

No. As I said before, you are wrong. In 2022, he came back in the regular season.

You and others keep saying Vegas did it "three times". This is simply factually incorrect.

They were in a playoff race so he came back to try and get them over the hump. Not sure this helps your argument. If anything it hurts it, in my opinion.

 

[TheBeard]

es. Guys are willing to play through a lot more in the playoffs.

Everyone lauds Bergeron playing with a punctured lung in the playoffs. You think he was gonna do that in the regular season?

It's a ridiculous standard. By the final, half the guys on each roster have such debilitating injuries that if it were the regular season, they would all be on the LTIR. But it's the playoffs, so you know they'll try to gut it out. But if this happens in RD1, it's apparently the end of the world.

If this is the case then it’s no longer a decision made by league doctors as many argue here. It’s a team (and player) decision made in regards to what’s best for the team. It’s a bad precedence then when you’re letting the player decide when his cap hit suddenly counts.

 

[myperbixhurts]

So then it's within the rules! Why are people complaining?

He’s not faking injury, they are faking the timeline of when the player is ready to play, which by definition is breaking the rules. If the player is healthy and ready to play, he needs to be playing not sitting out rests of the regular season(even if it’s just a game or two) to play in the playoffs and be cap compliant

 

[Laus723]

No. As I said before, you are wrong. In 2022, he came back in the regular season.

You and others keep saying Vegas did it "three times". This is simply factually incorrect.

I've read your posts really well. Maybe you should do a better job of explaining yourself, and maybe understand that things like this:


is irrelevant to the question of what to do with a player who get parked on LTIR through the end of the season and then comes off for the playoffs. Even if it happens two years in a row to the same player.

Especially when you express a lack of knowledge about why cap hits for players on LTIR get treated differently from players in the lineup who just suck ass but it's past the trade deadline so the options are "assign him to the minors" where he may still count some against the cap, or "suck it up, hope he gets his head out of his ass."

Again, if there's a problem here then please explain better. Or, ask questions and some of us will try to help inform. TIA.


2 years in a row, because ... as has been pointed out several times now ... he came back with 9 games to play in 2022, and Vegas didn't make the playoffs that year.

Lmao!! Why do you think “just twice in a row,” would be fine with anyone that’s bitching about it?