Speculation: Vancouver Canucks are asking for Kadri + Bozak or Kadri + Gardiner for Luongo

[Ruski]

Nonis just said on Hockey Central

paraphrase - .....You cant move a young player like Morgan Rielly.

Then Kyper asked - does that extend to a Jake Gardiner?

Nonis replied - Yes. You dont move young players unless its for other young players

Phew! Everyone says that Nonis has a cool head on his shoulders. Just can't see him overpaying for Luongo.

I have been pro-Luongo in the other thread and still am, but not with an overpayment!

Bozak + Kadri is already too much for Leafs because thats two centers we give up. Vancouver needs a backup for Schneider, so if anything its going to be:

Reimer + Bozak FOR Luongo

Thats the most i would pay anyway. I just don't see us getting Luongo without sending a goalie the other way. Unless we can pull off another coup like:

Bozak + Macarthur + Komi FOR Luongo + Raymond

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

It is so interesting to read these Leaf fan posts. Lou is a really good guy and I think a lot of Canuck fans would prefer he went to Florida which would get him out of the media spotlight. If he comes to TO there will be an intense spotlight on him because so many fans will be saying Nonis overpaid to get him. He could almost singlehandedly get the Leafs into the post season no matter who got sent to the Canucks.

He might never be able to satisfy Leaf fans and ultimately might get run out of town by the media and the boo birds unless he played lights out and the team made the post season.

Loungo to Florida, or Philly, or Chicago. But not the Leafs please.

Toronto treats their goalies quite well. If Luongo ever got booed @ the ACC its because he's playing below his own standard of play. If he provided Toronto with 0.915+ save percentage he will be universally loved, even by those who say they don't want him

Phew! Everyone says that Nonis has a cool head on his shoulders. Just can't see him overpaying for Luongo.

I have been pro-Luongo in the other thread and still am, but not with an overpayment!

Don't breathe a sigh of relief just yet. What Nonis says and what the board dictates could be two different things. It's clear (to me) that the board wants some say in hockey ops. It'll be interesting to look back at that quote when a deal is finally reached

 

[The Podium]

Phew! Everyone says that Nonis has a cool head on his shoulders. Just can't see him overpaying for Luongo.

I have been pro-Luongo in the other thread and still am, but not with an overpayment!

Bozak + Kadri is already too much for Leafs because thats two centers we give up. Vancouver needs a backup for Schneider, so if anything its going to be:

Reimer + Bozak FOR Luongo

Thats the most i would pay anyway. I just don't see us getting Luongo without sending a goalie the other way. Unless we can pull off another coup like:

Bozak + Macarthur + Komi FOR Luongo + Raymond

Id trade Kadri much before dealing Reimer

Luongos done in 5 years, deal Reimer and we are in the same boat. Keep Reimer and he'll have half a decade of development under a true #1 goalie and will be 29 by the time he takes over the starting role.

 

[LeafsMonster]

Did he say anything about kadri? I know there is reassurance that he won't give up reilly or gardiner for lu but he still might give up naz.

 

[false bobo]

It is so interesting to read these Leaf fan posts. Lou is a really good guy and I think a lot of Canuck fans would prefer he went to Florida which would get him out of the media spotlight. If he comes to TO there will be an intense spotlight on him because so many fans will be saying Nonis overpaid to get him. He could almost singlehandedly get the Leafs into the post season no matter who got sent to the Canucks.

He might never be able to satisfy Leaf fans and ultimately might get run out of town by the media and the boo birds unless he played lights out and the team made the post season.

Loungo to Florida, or Philly, or Chicago. But not the Leafs please.

I'm with you. Want no part of Luongo here.

 

[Ruski]

Don't breathe a sigh of relief just yet. What Nonis says and what the board dictates could be two different things. It's clear (to me) that the board wants some say in hockey ops. It'll be interesting to look back at that quote when a deal is finally reached

It sure smells like MLSE wants a piece and i am scared as hell that Anselmi gets to make hockey decisions cause we are screwed for the next 10 years if thats the case.

Hearing Nonis talk on the radio today has calmed me a bit though:

1. 3 year extension gives him 5 solid years to build.
2. He claims no pressure from MLSE to make playoffs this year and stated quite firmly that you only trade young players for other young players.
3. He also said if the Luongo deal gets done, it will be on his (Nonis's) terms.

Id trade Kadri much before dealing Reimer

Luongos done in 5 years, deal Reimer and we are in the same boat. Keep Reimer and he'll have half a decade of development under a true #1 goalie and will be 29 by the time he takes over the starting role.

I am with you man! Kadri is a piece that just doesn't fit on this team. I think his ceiling is a decent #2 centerman and we already have Grabo in that role. Grabo is only 28 and i am comfortable with him for the next 5-7 years. The defensive strength and the heart he has shown for us the last few years has sold me on him, period!

Kadri cannot be #1C just because he is not strong enough for NHL. I hope he gets some freak growth but at this point he is an AHL star, not NHL.

With Luongo, my preference is to first let Bozak go, then throw in Kadri if needed....but its just not a logical move for either Leafs or Vancouver. Why would we send 2 youngish centers for a goalie...and what would vancouver do with both of them?

That why for me its:

Bozak / Kadri (either one)
Reimer

FOR

Luongo

I think Luongo gives us 5-7 solid years and thats not nothing!
Don't forget Scrivens waiting in AHL, so we cant hold onto both Reimer & Scrivens for 5-7 years.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Ruski]

Did he say anything about kadri? I know there is reassurance that he won't give up reilly or gardiner for lu but he still might give up naz.

didn't hear Kadri's name once.

Good kid, natural talent but he just doesn't have a spot on the Leafs with Grabo at #2 Center. Plus the "green stuff" issue with Kadri can't be good longterm.

 

[Stephen]

I feel pretty secure in the Luongo situation at the moment, I don't see Nonis trading an arm and a leg to a guy who took his job, right after his old boss was fired, perhaps for standing his ground on the Luongo deal (even if that isn't the case).

 

[stakesishigh]

He might never be able to satisfy Leaf fans and ultimately might get run out of town by the media and the boo birds unless he played lights out and the team made the post season.

Loungo to Florida, or Philly, or Chicago. But not the Leafs please.

You're not alone in this thinking. I wouldn't hate if we acquired him (depending on the cost) but I'm certainly not striving for it. It just seems like it's the wrong move to make at a time like this. At the absolute best, Luongo would sneak us into the playoffs and we'd barely make an imprint. There are just too many pieces still missing on this team for it to be a move worth making. I'm just not sold on it, but that does largely depend on the cost to acquire him.

The idea worries me, but I'm eager to see what happens come CBA ratification.

 

[Winreims]

So... we're going into the season with Reimer/Scrivens?

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

 

[Stephen]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

Yeah, I'd do that. Grabovski is really overpaid for what he brings to the team, and I think opening up his spot allows for someone like Kadri to step in and grow into the same type of player with more upside. Don't forget when we got Grabs he was a smallish AHL scoring nobody too, and he was already 24.

 

[mix1home]

He might never be able to satisfy Leaf fans and ultimately might get run out of town by the media and the boo birds unless he played lights out and the team made the post season.

As many pointed out without Bozak our first line center will be Steckel (slow player without much skill other than faceoffs). With our second line being inconsistent all last year, do you really think that _ANY_ goalie in this world (even Quick) will get us into postseason?

You mentioned other reason for concern too, which is that enormous pressure will mount on Lou here. If he thought Vancouver was spotlight he will find it here to be 100x spotlight through huge 3m by 3m magnifying glass in fish-tank.

If Leafs send Bozak to Van, Lou will be expected to put this team on his back and more++++.
If Leafs send Gardiner to Van, Lou will be hated in this city from the get go.

Bank on it.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

So... we're going into the season with Reimer/Scrivens?

Yeah, just have a gut feeling. I'm alright with it, it should lead us to an inadvertent tank, so that'll be nice to look forward to in June

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

No I wouldn't, because that would leave us with no top 6 centers for the forseeable future, which means slim chances, if any, at the playoffs.

 

[achtungbaby]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

Tough one. Both contracts are terrible but Luongo will most likely be worth his money in the short term. It's the length of Lou's deal that scares me. I know I haven't answered here because I'd definitely have to sleep on that one.

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

As many pointed out without Bozak our first line center will be Steckel (slow player without much skill other than faceoffs). With our second line being inconsistent all last year, do you really think that _ANY_ goalie in this world (even Quick) will get us into postseason?

I don't see how that's so clear. It seems pretty clear to me that a healthy Connolly would be the #1 C if Bozak were to be dealt. If he gets injured, I think the Leafs would probably try out Colborne/Kadri at C before going to Steckel.

EDIT: Forgot about Lombardi. Even he would be a better option than Steckel due to his speed.

 

[birddog*]

Nonis just said on Hockey Central

paraphrase - .....You cant move a young player like Morgan Rielly.

Then Kyper asked - does that extend to a Jake Gardiner?

Nonis replied - Yes. You dont move young players unless its for other young players

Agreed 100%. You don't trade 10 year players for 3 year players, with an albatrosse of a contract and expect to climb out of the basement.

Building a perennial contender takes patience and a focus on youth. Young players get better. Old players get older.

Luongo is effectively 34 (couple months). Let's be honest and ask ourselves if he will be good enough in 3 years when the Leafs might be ready to make a run. Adding Luongo to this team does not get them a cup. Too many missing pieces still to fill in.

Building on Kessel, JVR, Phaneuf, Reilly and Gardiner is the way to go. If you trade one it needs to be for a better young player.

You need to package assets land try to upgrade positions. As much as I like some of these guys -- Grabo, Kuli, MacArthur, Bozak, Liles, Gunnarson, Franson, etc. if you can package them for a younger better player that becomes part of your core -- you do it.

You avoid trading Kadri, Frattin, Biggs etc IMO since you still don't know exactly what type of player they will become.

 

[Winreims]

Yeah, just have a gut feeling. I'm alright with it, it should lead us to an inadvertent tank, so that'll be nice to look forward to in June

I'll be happy in June, but it'll be tough to sit through during the entire season

 

[TML g u n n e R s*]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

no....

im not going into the season with

bozak
connolly
mcclement
steckel

 

[Ruski]

Yeah, I'd do that. Grabovski is really overpaid for what he brings to the team, and I think opening up his spot allows for someone like Kadri to step in and grow into the same type of player with more upside. Don't forget when we got Grabs he was a smallish AHL scoring nobody too, and he was already 24.

Really, please tell me how Kadri is the same type of player as Grabo?

Grabo
.66 PPG on Leafs
Plays bigger than his size
Grinds his way against oppositing D
Strong defensive play

Kadri
Very Offensively talented and has proven it against AHL opponents
.37 PPG on Leafs (Small sample size, i agree but still important)
Does NOT play bigger than his size
Does NOT grind
Is NOT known for his defensive play

There are many examples of guys who becomes career AHL stars but never full-time NHLers and Kadri is just as likely to end up like one of them, as he is to make a permanent appearance on an NHL roster.


I hope he steps up but to say that at this point he has higher upside than Grabo? You must have been watch XBOX simulations because on the ice there is just no comparison right now.

 

[mix1home]

Just my thought: Grabo for Luongo. Would you do it?

Just a question. No need for overkill.

I think it's much better idea than sending Bozak to Van. We can probably use Connolly/Lombardy in #2C role or groom Kadri there. Or even come up with line of Kulemin-VR-MacArthur. which is a bit lover risk than putting VR in #1C position outright.

It's all because Bozak has chemistry with Lupul and Kessel, and Grabo evidently not. Grabo is better player than Bozak though, but a bit overpaid (especially for new CBA).

From Van perspective though, I'm not sure how they would feel about 5M #3C if and when Kesler comes back.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

It sure smells like MLSE wants a piece and i am scared as hell that Anselmi gets to make hockey decisions cause we are screwed for the next 10 years if thats the case.

Hearing Nonis talk on the radio today has calmed me a bit though:

1. 3 year extension gives him 5 solid years to build.
2. He claims no pressure from MLSE to make playoffs this year and stated quite firmly that you only trade young players for other young players.
3. He also said if the Luongo deal gets done, it will be on his (Nonis's) terms.



I am with you man! Kadri is a piece that just doesn't fit on this team. I think his ceiling is a decent #2 centerman and we already have Grabo in that role. Grabo is only 28 and i am comfortable with him for the next 5-7 years. The defensive strength and the heart he has shown for us the last few years has sold me on him, period!

Kadri cannot be #1C just because he is not strong enough for NHL. I hope he gets some freak growth but at this point he is an AHL star, not NHL.

With Luongo, my preference is to first let Bozak go, then throw in Kadri if needed....but its just not a logical move for either Leafs or Vancouver. Why would we send 2 youngish centers for a goalie...and what would vancouver do with both of them?

That why for me its:

Bozak / Kadri (either one)
Reimer

FOR

Luongo

I think Luongo gives us 5-7 solid years and thats not nothing!
Don't forget Scrivens waiting in AHL, so we cant hold onto both Reimer & Scrivens for 5-7 years.

Thats my 2 cents.

I'm sorry but your logic is ridiculously off. First of all, Kadri is being groomed to be a winger, but could still play C. And by your logic, Edmonton already has a #1 RW (Eberle), so they should just trade Yakupov, there is no spot for him. You keep your best forward prospects, as young forwards can easily be shifted from C to RW/LW.

Really, please tell me how Kadri is the same type of player as Grabo?

Grabo
.66 PPG on Leafs
Plays bigger than his size
Grinds his way against oppositing D
Strong defensive play

Kadri
Very Offensively talented and has proven it against AHL opponents
.37 PPG on Leafs (Small sample size, i agree but still important)
Does NOT play bigger than his size
Does NOT grind
Is NOT known for his defensive play

There are many examples of guys who becomes career AHL stars but never full-time NHLers and Kadri is just as likely to end up like one of them, as he is to make a permanent appearance on an NHL roster.


I hope he steps up but to say that at this point he has higher upside than Grabo? You must have been watch XBOX simulations because on the ice there is just no comparison right now.

Where was Grabo at age 22? I'll tell you... he had 3 GP with 0 points and a -2 rating. Up until the 2008-09 season (when he was 24 years old), Grabo had accumulated 9 points in 27 NHL games (0.33 PPG). He was also much smaller than what Kadri is now.

It's funny you use Grabo, because he is the poster boy for being patient with your prospects. I don't know why you're so quick to give up Kadri when you appreciate Grabo.

 

[Stats01]

So... we're going into the season with Reimer/Scrivens?

No need to worry, if all goes well, we're fighting for 8th without giving up any our youth, and if we start to tank then we get another top 3-5 pick in a deep draft and we add to our core. I see no issues with either position. This franchise can't afford to give up youth for quick fixes that get us into 7th or 8th. We need to build and build and build so when we become contenders we're finishing higher than 8th and we're doing it for years and years, not 1 or 2.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

No need to worry, if all goes well, we're fighting for 8th without giving up any our youth, and if we start to tank then we get another top 3-5 pick in a deep draft and we add to our core. I see no issues with either position. This franchise can't afford to give up youth for quick fixes that get us into 7th or 8th. We need to build and build and build so when we become contenders we're finishing higher than 8th and we're doing it for years and years, not 1 or 2.

This.

Worst case scenario out of this season would be a 9th/10th place finish.