Speculation: Vancouver Canucks are asking for Kadri + Bozak or Kadri + Gardiner for Luongo

[topched]

everyone saying Vancouver would accept Grabovksi instead of Kadri seems to forget that Grabovski's cap hit is slightly higher than Lu's; therefore it wouldn't help the Canucks cap situation now or in the future.

when people say Kadri is better or will be better than Grabovski, I have to wonder what they're basing it on. Grabovski is solid on both sides of the puck, has explosive speed, improves his linemates (imo, he should be with Kessel/Lupul every game), and out-scored Mike Richards and Ryan Getzlaf, who each have a very similar cap hit.

for many of you, Kadri's "high potential" seems tied to nothing other than he was drafted 7th, so he's gotta be good. it's the same thing fans said about Filatov(6th), Hamill(8th), James Sheppard(9th), Skille(7th), Olesz(7th), and so on.

Kadri had potential. He's 22, and though the questions around his work ethic and defensive play have always been there, the fact that he's only been an above average offensive player in the AHL is more worrying. now's the time to trade him, before his value completely runs out.

I will have to take you to task on that one. Kadri is an elite AHL offensive player. He's putting up point totals similar to NHL regulars this year... and he's not playing with much talent, and hasn't since he's been wit hthe marlies. If anything its Kadri's offensive skill that has made fans and management alike not want to "give up" on him.

 

[Stephen]

everyone saying Vancouver would accept Grabovksi instead of Kadri seems to forget that Grabovski's cap hit is slightly higher than Lu's; therefore it wouldn't help the Canucks cap situation now or in the future 5 years.

Basing it on the fact that Grabovski is a mature NHL player while Luongo and his cap dollars are wasted away on a bench, while Kesler is out with a long term injury.

when people say Kadri is better or will be better than Grabovski, I have to wonder what they're basing it on. Grabovski is solid on both sides of the puck, has explosive speed, improves his linemates (imo, he should be with Kessel/Lupul every game), and out-scored Mike Richards and Ryan Getzlaf, who each have a very similar cap hit.

Grabovski isn't that great of a defensive player, I have no idea what you're talking about. He's not with Kessel and Lupul because he has terrible chemistry with them given to his lack of vision and creativity, and his points totals are quite average. He has great speed, his physical play is inconsistent, but when he's on he looks fantastic so people overrate him.

for many of you, Kadri's "high potential" seems tied to nothing other than he was drafted 7th, so he's gotta be good. it's the same thing fans said about Filatov(6th), Hamill(8th), James Sheppard(9th), Skille(7th), Olesz(7th), and so on.

Kadri had potential. He's 22, and though the questions around his work ethic and defensive play have always been there, the fact that he's only been an above average offensive player in the AHL is more worrying. now's the time to trade him, before his value completely runs out.

Nazem Kadri is a smallish center with high offensive upside who is a PPG player in the AHL with a defensive game that needs work. You know who else fits that profile? Brayden Schenn (-13) and Cody Hodgson (-5). Nazem Kadri is a (+5). No maybe if Kadri came in a more generic hockey package Leafs fans wouldn't be pissing and moaning about him all ****ing day, but he's a pretty good young center, and I'd be happy to see what he can do for us.

 

[4evaBlue]

2. You NEVER clear dead space for "the kids". You wait until the kids have earned their spot and then you make a move once you've proven that you have an excess of something. See: Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo or Claude Giroux and Mike Richards. If you don't do that you're putting to much reliance on a young player panning out.

I don't think Schneider is a good example. He's proven very little in his limited showing in a sheltered role. I think the Canucks made a mistake giving Schneider the contract he has, which in turn forced their hands to get rid of one of their goalies. It's a move that could very easily backfire on them. A 2 year, $2.5M deal would have been more fitting, given how unproven Schneider is. It would have allowed the Canucks a chance to figure out their goaltending situation at their leisure.

 

[Rockinz]

Luongo will get traded here for a bag of pucks and we will amnesty buy him out in 3 years.

 

[Phaneuffan3]

1. Kadri can play C or the wing. We've got a glaring hole between Kessel and Lupul. We've also got a wing spot on the 2nd line along side Grabo, and likely beside JVR. (Kulemin would move down to the 3rd line).



2. You NEVER clear dead space for "the kids". You wait until the kids have earned their spot and then you make a move once you've proven that you have an excess of something. See: Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo or Claude Giroux and Mike Richards. If you don't do that you're putting to much reliance on a young player panning out.

3. Grabo is our most attrative trade chip? Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, Lupul and Liles come to mind. If we're gonna get into trading proven commodities that are part of our "core" you might aswell deal from positions of strength, not ones where we are starving for talent like C.

Build around those italics players. Liles can be moved. I'm not sure if you watched last season, however we played good hockey for 2/3 of the season. At a playoff pace. If you moved grabo and shored up the goalie with a legitimate #1 goalie, yes we likely finish in a similar draft position; possibly worse even, but there is some highend skill in the upcoming draft.

We have good wing depth, Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Kuli, MacA, Frattin. Lupul/Bozak/Kessel will stay our number one. Let Kadri take the #2, Connolly/lambo(likely both will be injured at some point) at #3 leaving McClemment/Steckel/Brown as a fourth line) Mind you, now we also have a starter.

4. Let me tell you that Grabo or no Grabo we're looking at an ugly season. Why would you move out your best proven C, bank on a guy who hasn't produced in the NHL so far, and deplete your C depth. You realize that you just listed guys (Connolly, Lambo, Steckel and Bozak) who are all expiring contracts. That means next season we've got 1 C in place (Kadri) who may not even be better than any of the afformentioned expriring contracts (2 if you count 4th liner Mcclement). Disaster written all over it.

yes, this is exactly where you would cut the dead weight you will likely only resign one of con/lam/stec just incase you cant get a #1. You would have an idea of who will be available in free agency. You ca re-sign bozak in hopes of putting him into the #3 hole, while trying to land a big fish for the #1. If you do not get him well bozak would be the defacto number 1 centre again.

 

[Stephen]

I will have to take you to task on that one. Kadri is an elite AHL offensive player. He's putting up point totals similar to NHL regulars this year... and he's not playing with much talent, and hasn't since he's been wit hthe marlies. If anything its Kadri's offensive skill that has made fans and management alike not want to "give up" on him.

Player A:

19GP 5G 14A 19PTS 10PIM -3

Player B:

33GP 13G 20A 33PTS 15PIM -14

Player C:

27GP 8G 18A 26PTS 26PIM +5

Player A is Cody Hodgson, Player B is Brayden Schenn, Player C is Nazem Kadri

 

[Stats01]

Player A:

19GP 5G 14A 19PTS 10PIM -3

Player B:

33GP 13G 20A 33PTS 15PIM -14

Player C:

27GP 8G 18A 26PTS 26PIM +5

Player A is Cody Hodgson, Player B is Brayden Schenn, Player C is Nazem Kadri

Wow Schenn a -14 jeez

 

[SteveV*]

I really wish there was a stat that showed what percentage players spend in the other teams end and our own end. That stat would show all the Grabo doubters how important he can be, because I swear his line spends 70 percent of the time in the other teams end. That is so important, and that is the best defence there is....

 

[dberezin]

Grabovski isn't that great of a defensive player, I have no idea what you're talking about. He's not with Kessel and Lupul because he has terrible chemistry with them given to his lack of vision and creativity, and his points totals are quite average. He has great speed, his physical play is inconsistent, but when he's on he looks fantastic so people overrate him.

here's what i'm talking about.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/9/how-about-mikhail-grabovski-with-phil-kessel

just so we're clear, i don't hate kadri. i'd like to see him succeed, but i just don't see any evidence to this point that he will. he's 3rd on the marlies in scoring, outside of the top 30 in the AHL, and to me that's not a sign that he'll become a scorer in the NHL in the next couple years.

 

[Stu]

I'd absolutely keep Kadri over Grabovski. Grabovski is a good player who has assumed a bigger role than ideal on a bad team, but he's hardly someone you can't replace, especially with a talented first rounder with 3-4 years of grooming. When Grabs assumed this job, he was hardly accomplished himself, but grew into the player he is because we had no one else to play. Kadri has a lot of upside, higher than Grabs and needs an opportunity to grow into a position of responsibility on the Leafs. Add to the fact that Grabs is overpaid and his cap hit is the same as Luongo's, that's a perfect one for one salary/need trade. We're going to be better in net, so the team will be more secure and confident from the back end out and that is a better position for Kadri to step in as a full time top six centerman.

Thanks so much for this, I literally laughed harder after every word.

 

[dberezin]

I really wish there was a stat that showed what percentage players spend in the other teams end and our own end. That stat would show all the Grabo doubters how important he can be, because I swear his line spends 70 percent of the time in the other teams end. That is so important, and that is the best defence there is....

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/9/how-about-mikhail-grabovski-with-phil-kessel

 

[4evaBlue]

3. Grabo is our most attrative trade chip? Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, Lupul and Liles come to mind. If we're gonna get into trading proven commodities that are part of our "core" you might aswell deal from positions of strength, not ones where we are starving for talent like C.

When talking of prospects who have the potential to be impact players (Gardiner, Rielly), you're not going to get full value for them. If we were to trade them, I'd rather wait to see what we have in them, and trade them at a premium a few years from now (assuming we have a surplus of PMD). I would even include Kadri on this list.

Kessel, Phaneuf, and Lupul are an integral part of the team. Trading them away would leave a gaping hole in the lineup. Much more so than the departure of Grabo would create. Lupul may become expendable down the road, depending on how JVR fits in, but at this point, we have no PFW replacements for him in the system.

Liles just doesn't have that great of a trade value atm. We acquired him for a 2nd rounder, and re-signed him to a reasonable contract, but there are concerns with post-concussion performance. I think he will need a good season in order for his stock to rise back up to a 2nd rounder level.

 

[topched]

Player A:

19GP 5G 14A 19PTS 10PIM -3

Player B:

33GP 13G 20A 33PTS 15PIM -14

Player C:

27GP 8G 18A 26PTS 26PIM +5

Player A is Cody Hodgson, Player B is Brayden Schenn, Player C is Nazem Kadri

Like I said, elite offensive player. I believe he's as good or better offensively than both Hodgson and Schenn atm. Defensively, I don't think you can put him in the same category whatsoever.

Adirondack sucks, they're second last in the league. Rochester is a middle of the pack team.

Kadri has had lots of playing time with very responsible defensive players, he's played with one of Aucoin or Zigo all year, not to mention that the Marlies probably have the best blueline in the AHL... tons of vets with NHL experience + young pmds as well as the reigning "ahl vezina" winner

That +/- isn't indicative of each individuals defensive capabilities.