Speculation: Vancouver Canucks are asking for Kadri + Bozak or Kadri + Gardiner for Luongo

[Stats01]

Uh oh, the forum police is here.

Nah, I'm just wondering why you keep bringing it up lol

 

[donkeyy0]

Come to think of it, would you guys do the kadri + bozak + 2nd deal for luongo?.

Seems like that's most likely what it's going to be.

I would not. However, I personally view that contract to be a significant deterrent.

If you need a centre...look to move...I dunno, Grabovski straight up or something. I'd rather that than Kadri and Bozak. He's got a few years at 5.5, which is a similar caphit.

Personally I'd think even Grabovski's value is greater than that of Luongo's, but we need a goalie.

 

[Canucks LB]

I would not. However, I personally view that contract to be a significant deterrent.

If you need a centre...look to move...I dunno, Grabovski straight up or something. I'd rather that than Kadri and Bozak. He's got a few years at 5.5, which is a similar caphit.

Personally I'd think even Grabovski's value is greater than that of Luongo's, but we need a goalie.

We would do grabo for luongo in a heart beat, i doubt the leafs would.

 

[topched]

I would not. However, I personally view that contract to be a significant deterrent.

If you need a centre...look to move...I dunno, Grabovski straight up or something. I'd rather that than Kadri and Bozak. He's got a few years at 5.5, which is a similar caphit.

Personally I'd think even Grabovski's value is greater than that of Luongo's, but we need a goalie.

Man what planet are you on?

You wouldn't move Kadri, who is at this point a prospect teetering on bust status, and Bozak, an expiring contract who is at best a very good 3rd line C, but you would trade Grabovski, a guy with back to back 50 point seasons, the potential to hit 65 with decent linemates and the only true top 6 centre we have?

Yikes, glad you're not running this ship.

 

[CerebralDevil]

Man what planet are you on?

You wouldn't move Kadri, who is at this point a prospect teetering on bust status, and Bozak, an expiring contract who is at best a very good 3rd line C, but you would trade Grabovski, a guy with back to back 50 point seasons, the potential to hit 65 with decent linemates and the only true top 6 centre we have?

Yikes, glad you're not running this ship.

Yep totally agree. That does not make sense at all???? Keep Grabo unless its for a legit #1 centre like Getz,Stasny, Oreilly,

 

[Commander Clueless]

We would do grabo for luongo in a heart beat, i doubt the leafs would.

Leafs would probably consider it if they had another true top six center and some center prospects one of whom is ready for NHL action.

Unfortunately, they have neither (except maybe Kadri but his future at C is uncertain...could be a winger).

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

People who say they wouldn't trade Couturier straight up for Kessel should apply for Habs GM position next time there's an opening.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here but Couturier is a cheap, young player who'll be could be retained for a minimum of 6 years (if the team who holds his rights choose to do so). Kessel has two years left on his deal before he can possibly move to another city of his choosing. It's not unusual to want to keep Couturier over Kessel, as long as everyone knows that, at the time, Kessel is the superior player.

 

[donkeyy0]

We would do grabo for luongo in a heart beat, i doubt the leafs would.

Really? I feel like Grabovski is EXACTLY what the Canucks want/need, fills the hole better than Bozak/Kadri. We keep our cost effective players, move out a big-ish salary...5.5 for a guy who's DEFINITELY not a top line player seems excessive to me.

I think I pay a little too much attention to what guys are making, but personally I think Grabo's contract detracts from his value. If I were moving Grabo for young assets I'd expect a prospect of similar value to that of Kadri.

I do not think Kadri has busted, or is at risk of falling into that 'bust' category any time soon. He just needs a place on a team with a coach who is willing to let him learn at the NHL level.

 

[Stephen]

I'd absolutely keep Kadri over Grabovski. Grabovski is a good player who has assumed a bigger role than ideal on a bad team, but he's hardly someone you can't replace, especially with a talented first rounder with 3-4 years of grooming. When Grabs assumed this job, he was hardly accomplished himself, but grew into the player he is because we had no one else to play. Kadri has a lot of upside, higher than Grabs and needs an opportunity to grow into a position of responsibility on the Leafs. Add to the fact that Grabs is overpaid and his cap hit is the same as Luongo's, that's a perfect one for one salary/need trade. We're going to be better in net, so the team will be more secure and confident from the back end out and that is a better position for Kadri to step in as a full time top six centerman.

 

[Kurisu]

Man what planet are you on?

You wouldn't move Kadri, who is at this point a prospect teetering on bust status, and Bozak, an expiring contract who is at best a very good 3rd line C, but you would trade Grabovski, a guy with back to back 50 point seasons, the potential to hit 65 with decent linemates and the only true top 6 centre we have?

Yikes, glad you're not running this ship.

didn't realize age 22 was when you're considered a bust. It's not a race to the NHL.

 

[donkeyy0]

Man what planet are you on?

You wouldn't move Kadri, who is at this point a prospect teetering on bust status, and Bozak, an expiring contract who is at best a very good 3rd line C, but you would trade Grabovski, a guy with back to back 50 point seasons, the potential to hit 65 with decent linemates and the only true top 6 centre we have?

Yikes, glad you're not running this ship.

Ya man, he's never produced more than 58 pts. He's never scored more than 29 goals. He's 29 years old. He's making 5.5million dollars.

I probably wouldn't make the deal simply because we don't have anybody else to fill that hole, but I think value wise, the contract takes away from his value.

He's not Patrick Sharp. Nowhere near.

You build a team with really really really good players (who you pay a lot). And good deals (through "hometown discounts" and ELCs). Not by getting pretty good 2nd liners at 5.5million a shot.

Not to say he's not a good player, he is. He's just not a great player, and he's being paid like one.

 

[donkeyy0]

I'd absolutely keep Kadri over Grabovski. Grabovski is a good player who has assumed a bigger role than ideal on a bad team, but he's hardly someone you can't replace, especially with a talented first rounder with 3-4 years of grooming. When Grabs assumed this job, he was hardly accomplished himself, but grew into the player he is because we had no one else to play. Kadri has a lot of upside, higher than Grabs and needs an opportunity to grow into a position of responsibility on the Leafs. Add to the fact that Grabs is overpaid and his cap hit is the same as Luongo's, that's a perfect one for one salary/need trade. We're going to be better in net, so the team will be more secure and confident from the back end out and that is a better position for Kadri to step in as a full time top six centerman.

Thank you. That move would put a ton of pressure on Kadri/Carlyle/Nonis because there's really no option behind Kadri, but trial by fire I guess (about time).

 

[Commander Clueless]

Really? I feel like Grabovski is EXACTLY what the Canucks want/need, fills the hole better than Bozak/Kadri. We keep our cost effective players, move out a big-ish salary...5.5 for a guy who's DEFINITELY not a top line player seems excessive to me.

I think I pay a little too much attention to what guys are making, but personally I think Grabo's contract detracts from his value. If I were moving Grabo for young assets I'd expect a prospect of similar value to that of Kadri.

I do not think Kadri has busted, or is at risk of falling into that 'bust' category any time soon. He just needs a place on a team with a coach who is willing to let him learn at the NHL level.

If the Leafs can pull off another trade for a center, Grabo may become expendable. However, without him, our center depth is:

Bozak
Connolly
McClement
Steckel


Bottom six guys aren't bad but that top 6 is beyond horrendous.

If the rumours of a guy like Weiss moving are true or that a guy like Benn is looking for a trade (pure media speculation) there might be an opportunity there.

Guys like Gardiner, Kulemin and Kadri would need to be available for a center but that would give us a bit more flexibility to make a trade like you suggest.

In short, value of Grabovski for Luongo is sound. Depth wise for Toronto it makes our center need even greater. Risky move for Nonis but I would prefer to keep our young guys so I can see your point of view.

 

[topched]

didn't realize age 22 was when you're considered a bust. It's not a race to the NHL.

3 straight seasons of full time pro hockey in the AHL, consistently operating slightly under a ppg in that league, and hasn't shown any interest in developing physically and in turn defensively in his own end.

This is a make or break year for Naz and he hasn't shown the ability to dominate at the level directly below the NHL... why should I expect him to be able to do so with the big boys?

 

[Joey Hoser]

This is a make or break year for Naz and he hasn't shown the ability to dominate at the level directly below the NHL... why should I expect him to be able to do so with the big boys?

I have no idea why you would expect Nazem Kadri to dominate the NHL.

You can make an NHL team and contribute without being dominant, like 99% of the players in the league.

 

[Kurisu]

3 straight seasons of full time pro hockey in the AHL, consistently operating slightly under a ppg in that league, and hasn't shown any interest in developing physically and in turn defensively in his own end.

This is a make or break year for Naz and he hasn't shown the ability to dominate at the level directly below the NHL... why should I expect him to be able to do so with the big boys?

Example, max patrioretty was looking like a bust at Kadri's age before he turned it around and became the player he is today (recall his stats/play (2008-2010). Prospects develop at their own time. But I do agree somewhat that this is his year to show something that's he progressing.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

3 straight seasons of full time pro hockey in the AHL, consistently operating slightly under a ppg in that league, and hasn't shown any interest in developing physically and in turn defensively in his own end.

This is a make or break year for Naz and he hasn't shown the ability to dominate at the level directly below the NHL... why should I expect him to be able to do so with the big boys?

According to who.. you?

 

[topched]

According to who.. you?

Came in to camp out of shape according to staff and management to start the year. Theres the physical.

Defensively? Have you watched any Marlies games? The kid isn't trustworthy in his own end whatsoever.

To reel everyone back in... let's clarify here... I'm comparing trading Kadri to trading Grabovski.

 

[donkeyy0]

Example, max patrioretty was looking like a bust at Kadri's age before he turned it around and became the player he is today (recall his stats/play (2008-2010). Prospects develop at their own time. But I do agree somewhat that this is his year to show something that's he progressing.

But they've got to give him playing time then. Which I think Carlyle will do. Hopefully he's a Leaf past this weekend. I'll be following his progress either way.

Bozak + Kadri cripples the centre depth pretty hard too. I honestly never thought that there really was a trade to be made here as the wants of Vancouver are similar to those of Toronto.

 

[topched]

Example, max patrioretty was looking like a bust at Kadri's age before he turned it around and became the player he is today (recall his stats/play (2008-2010). Prospects develop at their own time. But I do agree somewhat that this is his year to show something that's he progressing.

The difference between Pacioretty and Kadri is that Max could play in his own end.

That allowed MTL's coaches to play him as a youngster in a bottom 6 role the year after he was drafted.

Until Kadri shows he's responsible no one is going to want give him the chance to show off offensively in the NHL.

Pacioretty had the fundamentals down and then improved his offensive game to the level that it is today.

Like I said... I'm totally fine with keeping Kadri, just not over Grabo as someone suggested. Naz needs to be given full endorsement by the coaching staff this year and needs to show he can stick.

 

[Keeping it Blue]

Came in to camp out of shape according to staff and management to start the year. Theres the physical.

I can't believe people are still talking about this.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Ya man, he's never produced more than 58 pts. He's never scored more than 29 goals. He's 29 years old. He's making 5.5million dollars.

I probably wouldn't make the deal simply because we don't have anybody else to fill that hole, but I think value wise, the contract takes away from his value.

He's not Patrick Sharp. Nowhere near.

You build a team with really really really good players (who you pay a lot). And good deals (through "hometown discounts" and ELCs). Not by getting pretty good 2nd liners at 5.5million a shot.

Not to say he's not a good player, he is. He's just not a great player, and he's being paid like one.

Why are people so worried about Grabovski's 5.5M cap hit? There are tons of worse contracts on our team that deserve a lot more attention than our only productive top 6 center's.

ie:

Komisarek 4.5M
Connolly 4.75M
Lombardi 3.5M

These are examples of overpaid players. Players who contribute practically nothing (or worse, negative) to our team but are paid like solid producers. On a 23 man roster the average cap hit should be 3M. At a 5.5M cap hit, Grabovski is paid only 12% of or cap space. Considering Grabovski has finished 3rd in goals, and 3rd in points the past two seasons as well as 1st and 2nd in TOI/G among centers over the same span of time, wouldn't you argue that Grabovski is a pretty big part of our team? Surely worth 2.5M more than the average player on our roster, considering he is anything but average.

Furthermore, we have 22M in cap space next season, so why are we even discussing the issue of cap when it's a non-issue altogether?

 

[CerebralDevil]

I'd absolutely keep Kadri over Grabovski. Grabovski is a good player who has assumed a bigger role than ideal on a bad team, but he's hardly someone you can't replace, especially with a talented first rounder with 3-4 years of grooming. When Grabs assumed this job, he was hardly accomplished himself, but grew into the player he is because we had no one else to play. Kadri has a lot of upside, higher than Grabs and needs an opportunity to grow into a position of responsibility on the Leafs. Add to the fact that Grabs is overpaid and his cap hit is the same as Luongo's, that's a perfect one for one salary/need trade. We're going to be better in net, so the team will be more secure and confident from the back end out and that is a better position for Kadri to step in as a full time top six centerman.

The problem with Kadri is that there is younger players who show more promise and have made an impact to their respective teams already. Kadri shows no effort to play defensive, and like I mentioned in a post earlier in a game against Hamilton it was highlighted how poor he hustles to back check or tie up his man. Kadri does have great vision and excellent hands, but that is all. Kadri has shown he wont back down in the offensive end, but the problem is and if he wants to play centre he has to skate north and south with better coverage. Kadri after 3 years still doesnt grasp this and therefore he is expendable IMO. Grabo is 29 but plays every night and hustles out there making an impact on the ice, you cant say that for Kadri, at least not at this time. I would trade him in a package for a centre who plays up and down and not float.

 

[headwire]

Came in to camp out of shape according to staff and management to start the year. Theres the physical.

Defensively? Have you watched any Marlies games? The kid isn't trustworthy in his own end whatsoever.

To reel everyone back in... let's clarify here... I'm comparing trading Kadri to trading Grabovski.

Where was it stated that he was out of shape? If I recall correctly, it's just that his body fat was one of the worst on the team. Body fat is a poor measure of someone's physical condition.

 

[Stats01]

I can't believe people are still talking about this.

I hate when people don't follow our own prospects. Would be nice if some of these guys would watch some Marlies games once and a while. Going off info from months ago HAHA