Confirmed with Link: [VAN/DET] Canucks acquire D Filip Hronek, 4th in ‘23 for NYI 1st (condt’l), 2023 2nd - Pt. 2

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

really? who do you like

Lars Eller. Oskar Sundqvist. JT Compher. Alex Kerfoot. Vladislav Namestnikov. Evan Rodrigues. Sean Monahan. Pierre Engvall. Ivan Barbashev.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Agreed. Another thing I find telling is that Yzerman is currently trading some of his players for picks despite a) Detroit being better than us and b) also having the nucleus of a good young core. Just reinforces the fact that retool / short-cuts simply don't work, have not worked and will not work moving forward.

I think I'll defer to Yzerman on this one.

calling detroit the model of success is not the best way to make this point

 

[vancityluongo]

What a contrast between the Canucks and the Wings--and not a positive contrast.

Wings are only five points out of a wildcard in the Eastern Conference, but in the last 24 hours they've traded Hronek and Bertuzzi, and received back two first round draft picks; a high second rounder and a fourth.

Clearly Yzerman has taken stock of his team, and realizes that while they're close, there's more building to be done. So in one of the deepest drafts in years, they now have five picks in the top 40; plus they own the Bruins first rounder in 2024 along with their own.

The Canucks, who are miles out in the West, are still trading first and second rounders. They're a lottery team today; and thanks to trades like this, they'll be a lottery team for a long time.

I wish we could have picked up the Bruins 2024 1st

Bit of a hot take to say about a team that looks like they might cruise to the best regular season of all-time, but I think they could fall off next season with Bergeron retired, especially if they have a long playoff run.

Most people thought that fall off would happen this year, but they avoided initial injury predictions to MacAvoy and Marchand and got wicked lucky with Ullmark putting up a Vezina season. But I don't think he's the real deal long term.

They also won't be able to keep everyone or really add with Pastrnak and Zacha's new extensions kicking in... again, this is a bold, stupid take right now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit finish above them next season.

 

[JohnHodgson]

calling detroit the model of success is not the best way to make this point

The Yzerman lovefest given he has done nothing material in Detroit is hilarious.

Detroits been rebuilding for 7 years and just traded away their second best defenseman and a top sox forward for more picks, but signs Larkin to a long term extension??

 

[Blue and Green]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet in this thread, but on the Vancast Drance made a good point.

He didn't like the trade per se because of it goes against what he thinks the team should do, timing etc. But agreed the value was reasonable.

But...

Went on to say that he was very surprised Vancouver didn't attach any protections on the pick. Ie Detroit gets whichever pick is worse between NYI and Van. Top 5/10 protection etc. And questioned why it couldn't wait until the draft. If Detroit would say no to it, if the pick say was cemented in at 15 instead of being a mystery box.

The "whichever pick is worse between NYI and Van" part is effectively settled. Plus, if the Islanders were to totally collapse and fall below the Canucks, they would almost certainly keep their pick this season and defer the transfer to next season. Drance is blowing hard about not much on this one.

 

[AzNightmare]

I wish we could have picked up the Bruins 2024 1st

Bit of a hot take to say about a team that looks like they might cruise to the best regular season of all-time, but I think they could fall off next season with Bergeron retired, especially if they have a long playoff run.

Most people thought that fall off would happen this year, but they avoided initial injury predictions to MacAvoy and Marchand and got wicked lucky with Ullmark putting up a Vezina season. But I don't think he's the real deal long term.

They also won't be able to keep everyone or really add with Pastrnak and Zacha's new extensions kicking in... again, this is a bold, stupid take right now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit finish above them next season.

Always hurts to think how successful Boston has been since 2011 in comparison.... Canucks basically fell off in 2012, lol...

 

[Orr4Norris]

The "whichever pick is worse between NYI and Van" part is effectively settled. Plus, if the Islanders were to totally collapse and fall below the Canucks, they would almost certainly keep their pick this season and defer the transfer to next season. Drance is blowing hard about not much on this one.

He’s talking about if the NYI picks slides to next year and becomes unprotected. If the Islanders fall next year and win the lottery Detroit gets the pick. It’s really strange the Canucks didn’t protect themselves from this scenario. It’s pretty standard practice.

 

[Diamonddog01]

calling detroit the model of success is not the best way to make this point

They have an exceptional prospect pool and are already of us in the standings - in a much harder conference. I guess if you focus on the extreme short-term I can see why you might think this way but Yzerman is thinking long-term, big picture here.

 

[Blue and Green]

He’s talking about if the NYI picks slides to next year and becomes unprotected. If the Islanders fall next year and win the lottery Detroit gets the pick. It’s really strange the Canucks didn’t protect themselves from this scenario. It’s pretty standard practice.

You can't protect against everything, and besides, the likelihood of that pick turning into a lottery winner is very small. Plus, the 2024 draft is not expected to be nearly as strong as the upcoming one.

 

[m9]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet in this thread, but on the Vancast Drance made a good point.

He didn't like the trade per se because of it goes against what he thinks the team should do, timing etc. But agreed the value was reasonable.

But...

Went on to say that he was very surprised Vancouver didn't attach any protections on the pick. Ie Detroit gets whichever pick is worse between NYI and Van. Top 5/10 protection etc. And questioned why it couldn't wait until the draft. If Detroit would say no to it, if the pick say was cemented in at 15 instead of being a mystery box.

The "whichever pick is worse between NYI and Van" part is effectively settled. Plus, if the Islanders were to totally collapse and fall below the Canucks, they would almost certainly keep their pick this season and defer the transfer to next season. Drance is blowing hard about not much on this one.

He’s talking about if the NYI picks slides to next year and becomes unprotected. If the Islanders fall next year and win the lottery Detroit gets the pick. It’s really strange the Canucks didn’t protect themselves from this scenario. It’s pretty standard practice.

Was talked about earlier in the thread and I did think about it at the time of the trade. My basic thought is sure, more protection would be nice. If you are the Canucks and you like this deal, do you hold up the deal for that? Probably not.

Would you give up an additional asset for that protection? Because if you want more in the trade it's reasonable to expect it would cost you more.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it probably is a bit nit-picky. It's a condition on top of a condition which while technically possible isn't overly common in the NHL.

It also makes me wonder if their 2024 1st is on the table sooner than later anyway so maybe they aren't that concerned about it.

 

[credulous]

the idea that the islanders will collapse and be a bottom 10 team next year is a silly one anyways

 

[Brookbank]

I mean is it possible... just even thinking outside the box for a second that... they both play PP1?



God ya'll are just so unbearable sometimes

He would be the 2nd best powerplay d man on the team and plays on the right side. So why wouldn't he be welded on the top unit ?

 

[Tak7]

What a contrast between the Canucks and the Wings--and not a positive contrast.

Wings are only five points out of a wildcard in the Eastern Conference, but in the last 24 hours they've traded Hronek and Bertuzzi, and received back two first round draft picks; a high second rounder and a fourth.

Clearly Yzerman has taken stock of his team, and realizes that while they're close, there's more building to be done. So in one of the deepest drafts in years, they now have five picks in the top 40; plus they own the Bruins first rounder in 2024 along with their own.

The Canucks, who are miles out in the West, are still trading first and second rounders. They're a lottery team today; and thanks to trades like this, they'll be a lottery team for a long time.

This particular deadline has shown that there's such a huge gap between the Canucks front office, and those other front offices that have clever, shrewd, creative operators who get what they want.

 

[MS]

He would be the 2nd best powerplay d man on the team and plays on the right side. So why wouldn't he be welded on the top unit ?

Everyone does 4F sets on the PP now. I think 1 team in the entire league ran a 2D set for any length of time this year.

That said, Hronek has mostly been the PP2 guy in Detroit the past two seasons behind Seider and has been a big ES producer so this notion that he's some sort of PP specialist whose production will crash horribly behind Quinn Hughes is a bit misguided.

 

[Sedinery]

The idea of having a couple of good players surrounded by fill in on the fly guys has been tried without success by many teams

Oilers sound familiar?

We will not win trying to build immediate pieces around Hughes and EP

The sad fact is we need to cash in EP, Demmer and Highes and build it back up and in that time crap contracts would have expired.

What really sucks is current management can’t trade or draft …. So the cycle of failure continues

 

[JohnHodgson]

Everyone does 4F sets on the PP now. I think 1 team in the entire league ran a 2D set for any length of time this year.

That said, Hronek has mostly been the PP2 guy in Detroit the past two seasons behind Seider and has been a big ES producer so this notion that he's some sort of PP specialist whose production will crash horribly behind Quinn Hughes is a bit misguided.

Hughes probably has the weakest shot out of any PP1 dman.

He's much better as a rover that can create space with his skating ability - I wonder if they try that.

They have an exceptional prospect pool and are already of us in the standings - in a much harder conference. I guess if you focus on the extreme short-term I can see why you might think this way but Yzerman is thinking long-term, big picture here.

They've been legit rebuilding for 7 years and are about to enter another mini-rebuild.

 

[MS]

Hughes probably has the weakest shot out of any PP1 dman.

He's much better as a rover that can create space with his skating ability - I wonder if they try that.



They've been legit rebuilding for 7 years and are about to enter another mini-rebuild.

Hard shots to me are so overrated by fans.

We lead the NHL in deflection goals this year and a huge part of that is shot placement from Hughes at the top of the PP.

Hughes is one of the best PP QBs in the NHL and his role won't change.

 

[Bacanuck]

There's teams currently ahead of the Canucks in the standings, that are selling & stockpiling future assets.

Even if you're adamant on being a buyer, the idea that you simply cannot hold onto those picks, see how the the rest of the season plays out, and then re-assess heading into the draft, is ludicrous. What was the urgency to get a Filip Hronek through the door for 20 games - not only does it hurt your chances of your own pick being a top 5, but it also screws your ability to make an actual win-now move in the summer.

I think you have hit on the part of this transaction that is most disheartening: what it reveals about the competency level of this management group. Regardless of your evaluation of Hronek as a player, and whether or it is a move that makes sense from a strategic level for this team, what is irrefutable is that:
a) There is no reason to make this type of move now (ie just before the trade deadline), and
b) By making this move now, you are paying a huge premium that you wouldn't have to pay if you waited 72 more hours.

Both old-timey hockey people, as well as new-fangled stats nerds will agree on this: roster players are more expensive to acquire at the trade deadline, and less expensive at the draft. There's a very good and logical reason for this: playoff-bound and playoff-hopeful teams are attaching value to the ability of these players to get them to the playoffs / help them win in the playoffs, and therefore are willing to pay more for this value. The Canucks are paying for something that they can't use! It is wasteful and indefensible, and again, given that this is something that is recognized by everyone, it makes absolutely no sense, and is depressing, not just because of the waste of premium assets on this particular deal, but what it says about what we can expect from this management group going forward, ie. they can't do obvious things that everyone knows about in order to efficiently improve the team. It is similar to the Benning move of resigning Sbisa to a number higher than his QO before the playoffs even started.... it makes no sense on so many levels that now we are left to wonder if this management group is even capable of building a team around our core. Even the Miller re-signing, (which I view as a mistake just to be clear), can at least be defended as a move that you might make if you misjudged how close the team was to competing in the next few years. This is just a clown car all around.

 

[Diamonddog01]

They've been legit rebuilding for 7 years and are about to enter another mini-rebuild.

Uh rebuilds take time? Vs Vancouver who has been inadvertently and unintentionally rebuilding for a decade now?

And again - they are already ahead of us in the standings with a much better prospect pool. I guess if the stars align maybe we have a short-window as a bubble team thanks to short-sighted moves such as this. I wouldn't bet against Yzerman here if I were you.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Does anyone else think it’s a little ironic that Hronek is a great example of why teams should hold on to/acquire as many 2nd round picks as possible?

Also, Autocorrect just suggest Heineken for Hronek…so there’s that.

Sure, we should have been picking with our second rounders (plus acquiring more) over the last 10 years and we likely could have had a good D-core by now plus some good Center depth. Unfortunately Benning pissed these away on AHL players m, unnecessary throw ins on other deals. and for a washed up OEL and here we are.
Spending second round picks for top four D when you’re ready to compete is fine. At this point those second round players are 4-6 years away.

 

[DS7]

Uh rebuilds take time? Vs Vancouver who has been inadvertently and unintentionally rebuilding for a decade now?

And again - they are already ahead of us in the standings with a much better prospect pool. I guess if the stars align maybe we have a short-window as a bubble team thanks to short-sighted moves such as this. I wouldn't bet against Yzerman here if I were you.

We've been franken tooling more than rebuilding. If Hughes doesnt fall to us in 2018 or if Benning chose glass in 2017 we'd be much worse off

 

[Tak7]

I think you have hit on the part of this transaction that is most disheartening: what it reveals about the competency level of this management group. Regardless of your evaluation of Hronek as a player, and whether or it is a move that makes sense from a strategic level for this team, what is irrefutable is that:
a) There is no reason to make this type of move now (ie just before the trade deadline), and
b) By making this move now, you are paying a huge premium that you wouldn't have to pay if you waited 72 more hours.

Both old-timey hockey people, as well as new-fangled stats nerds will agree on this: roster players are more expensive to acquire at the trade deadline, and less expensive at the draft. There's a very good and logical reason for this: playoff-bound and playoff-hopeful teams are attaching value to the ability of these players to get them to the playoffs / help them win in the playoffs, and therefore are willing to pay more for this value. The Canucks are paying for something that they can't use! It is wasteful and indefensible, and again, given that this is something that is recognized by everyone, it makes absolutely no sense, and is depressing, not just because of the waste of premium assets on this particular deal, but what it says about what we can expect from this management group going forward, ie. they can't do obvious things that everyone knows about in order to efficiently improve the team. It is similar to the Benning move of resigning Sbisa to a number higher than his QO before the playoffs even started.... it makes no sense on so many levels that now we are left to wonder if this management group is even capable of building a team around our core. Even the Miller re-signing, (which I view as a mistake just to be clear), can at least be defended as a move that you might make if you misjudged how close the team was to competing in the next few years. This is just a clown car all around.

I see Washington sitting ahead of the Canucks in the standings, in a much more pressing window to win because of Ovechkin/Carlson's ages, and much closer to a playoff spot in the standings than the Canucks are, deciding to sell.

I don't think it makes any sense to view the Canucks through the lens of different management eras (The Benning era vs Rutherford/Alvin, etc)., because they all ultimately are the Acquilini era - and they have consistently now prioritized 2 home playoff dates in the spring, over actually challenging for a cup. It reminds me completely of the Poile-Predators, or the Leafs of the early 2000s. When you're aiming just to get in to secure playoff gates, it's impossible to build a cup contender.

 

[VanJack]

Hronek was Detroit's highest-scoring d-man.

Can you imagine someone like Benning trading his highest scoring d-man for picks; if the Canucks were five points out of a wildcard? He'd rather cut off his right arm.

But GM's who have a complete handle on where their team is really at, are the only ones with the jam to pull of a deal like that. And that's something that's been completely AWOL in Canucks management for years.

 

[MS]

The cheerleading for Yzerman and Detroit is a bit bizarre.

Their rebuild is failing. They're heading into Year 8 and have reached the point where they're now rebuilding the rebuild by dealing guys who were thought to be young core pieces in Hronek and Bertuzzi. They have no marquee offensive talent outside of Dylan Larkin who was already there the last time they made the playoffs. They're rotating through a new journeyman goalie every year. They had to go out and overpay in UFA for a 2nd line last summer because they had no in-house push up front despite having like 30 picks in the first 3 rounds over the previous 5 years. They have two really good assets (Seider and Larkin) and one of those was just given the contract that fans here were adamant was a terrible idea for a team in ours/Detroits situation when it came to Horvat.

Like, Detroit now is in a worse position than we were heading into Year 8 of Benning before the OEL atrocity happened. They're kind of the model for the downside of the full tank/long-term rebuild.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Hard shots to me are so overrated by fans.

We lead the NHL in deflection goals this year and a huge part of that is shot placement from Hughes at the top of the PP.

Hughes is one of the best PP QBs in the NHL and his role won't change.

Having a hard shot is like having a big dick, it's counterproductive if you can't use it properly.