Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[biturbo19]

In this morning's Calgary Herald print edition there's a wonderful column on how Lindholm is a candidate to be traded at this season's trade deadline.

As top trade target, Flames’ Elias Lindholm will be in spotlight at NHL all-star game

Most expect that Flames all-star rep Elias Lindholm will be switching squads before the March 8 trade deadline.

calgaryherald.com

Extra Extra! Read All About It!!!!!

wait...

STOP THE PRESSES.


...Too late i guess. Just run it. Whatever.

Lots of pages so forgive me if it’s been addressed, but with Hronek and EP due for new contracts is this probably a rental?

It's awfully hard to see a realistic avenue to re-signing Lindholm. So yes. Pretty much.

There's a very small possibility that they move some things around, guys take small haircuts, and Lindholm himself rings in at less than expected...and it could all get shoehorned in for a year. Then hope the cap rises enough as the stupid OEL buyout doubles in weight. But it's very unlikely that the Canucks have the cap flexibility to fit in those big raises, and include an ~$8M Lindholm without absolutely nuking their depth that's served them so well. That math doesn't math...unless there's a big exodus of a lot of the quality depth guys who have worked so well for them, replaced by absolute bottom dollar bargain bin options and young/ELC guys internally. Especially with half the Defence as Free Agents to replace.

But there is still that very small outside chance that if Lindholm ends up being an amazing fit...they move some things around and find a way to prioritize him and make it fit somehow.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

There was never that much talk in Colorado that this Lindholm guy was their target. More talk about Henrique and the Avs.

Then as a fan you should be disappointed. This was a big loss for the other top contenders.
1st, RyJo & Ritchie would have been a very similar, but better option IMO.
We still could have swung a Tanev trade to Van for Brewst

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If Lindholm signs a 7x8 type deal. I think they can fit him under the cap. With a petterson deal of 11x8 or whatever he wants.

Zadorov re sign at 4 million and get a cheap defensemen.

D will end up weak but that forward group will be lights out

 

[Mike Jones]

Worth Reading Conroy's Quotes:

'Checked all the boxes': Flames’ Conroy satisfied with return for Lindholm

Calgary Flames general manager Craig Conroy pulled in quite a haul for his team by trading Elias Lindholm to the Vancouver Canucks on Wednesday.

www.sportsnet.ca

It is as close to a textbook rebuilding trade as you're ever going to get - especially in the current cap era.

Now it's up to the Flames scouts and development people to do their thing.

 

[Petrus]

Canucks get bounced in the 1st

I’m liking their chances. The Canucks could seriously challenge for the cup now that they’ve addressed their biggest need.

 

[McJedi]

I just don't see having half a good season post-draft as the sort of thing that just immediately rockets a guy from a "B Prospect" to suddenly an "A Prospect".

Every reason to be thrilled with the develop and the way the post-draft season has gone...but just like for Brzustewicz, a really strong start to D+1 season doesn't just completely overwrite everything else. Not when like you said, the trajectory is still optimistically leading toward the NHL at Age 21. Years from now. Prospect development is rarely completely linear. And there's still a lot of time and a lot of things to prove, including those critical transition points, before a prospect tends to leap to an entirely different category. It usually takes longer than that, and some sustained progress that has shown a huge leap forward from what they were drafted as.

You're seeing a ton of roster progression from Gulyayev. He's on the number 1 team in the eastern conference of the KHL and his roster progression from fringe player to core player in the span of five months is exactly the kind of acceleration you hope to see with younger players.

The KHL is a professional league. The best one in Europe. He plays games nightly vs men that are 24-38 years old. Hockey is everyone's career.

The coach has to win. His job isn't to get the guys ready for the next phase of their career. It's to win today. And it's been a very unfriendly league to younger players as a result. Even Mitckov has been healthy scratched and benched. But Gulyayev has played in 100% of his club's games where he's been healthy. And he's not some throw in player each night. He's on their 2nd pair.

There are N O other 18 year old B prospects playing 19 minutes a night on defense in a men's league on a top team. He's playing higher up his lineup and getting more ice time than either of Dmitriy Simashev (3rd pair D on his team and about 11 minutes a game) and Daniil But (2nd line RW - this guy is also good, but gets around 11 minutes a game as a forward), two guys taken at 6th and 12th overall in the same 2023 draft and also in the KHL. Sometimes guys fall in the draft for reasons that turn out to be scouting mistakes. You'd probably call Simashev a A prospect because he was taken 6th overall in the excellent 2023 draft. Gulyayev plays on a better team and gets nearly twice as much ice time per game. Why? Because he's some B prospect or because he's won his coaches' trust and has a core role on his team?

You just watch them post draft to see which guys make the next step and which guys don't.

Gulyayev is showing you he took a huge next step. He needs to take more, but if he's playing a core role with big minutes... his chances to continue his development are excellent. There isn't another level of the KHL in front of him. He's playing at the highest level now and he needs to get better at it to become top pair. He's 18. He's got time to get there.

Rental players like Lindholm should not fetch A level prospects. The Avs have two and they still have two. Vancouver also has two similar level guys and the Flames didn't get either of them in this deal.

 

[I am not exposed]

That is a lot for what looks like a rental.

 

[calder candidate]

CGY got a pretty big package back but ultimately VAN didn’t give up anything they could live without, the gave lot of pieces but ultimately the odds of them having a impact is pretty low, I feel like CGY probably moved too early… they would have gain from someone else setting the market price…

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Tactically, the Canucks moved Kuzmenko's 5.5M next year so they will likely resign Lindholm.

If they have to move Garland (5M) out to do it they will probably do it.

This is the reverse Horvat trade and like that, giving up the assets they gave up, only makes sense if they resign Lindholm.

Younger than Miller, Lindholm is a bit of a Unicorn and will likely become a core piece for the Canucks for years to come.

 

[57special]

Sounds like a lot from Van, but once you break it down, it isn't . Really depends on what you think of Brust's future, really. As of now, the 1st pick will be in the 30's....hardly going to be any gamebreakers available, and even getting a NHL'er will be unlikely. Kuz simply wasn't working out in VAN, and they got rid of his cap hit. I haven't followed Jurmo since he was drafted... I'm assuming he is a B prospect?

I also like to when teams make deals way before the TDL. It allows the player to get accustomed to his new team...that often takes time.

For CAL? Not the best return, TBH, but not terrible. i do think it was a good idea to not double down on their Huberdeau/Kadri mistakes, and sign Lindholm for 8/75M, or whatever.

I really like that VAN is going for it. Lindholm doesn't play D, but he might as well. One for those players who instantly will make the team D better, which will free up the other guy in his duties, allowing him to freewheel even more.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

For those saying its a big win for CGY, slow down.....

Flames still have to hit on that 1st, Brewski still has to become a player, and Kuz needs to rebound & be swapped for more assests. Those things happen and then its a big win.
Then again, even if Lindy only helps Van win even a couple rnds, I think Van fans would be pretty happy.

 

[POVERTY]

Good move for Vancouver, will see if they are able to re-sign him. Lindholm as your 1C isn't ideal but as your 2C is fantastic, even the faceoff and defensive game he brings is enough to justify moving Kuz. They would have ended up having to attach assets to Kuzmenko to move him this year anyway with how he's played. Giving up a late first doesn't really matter all that much either, nice to see a team going for it. Smart of CGY to move Lindholm as well, this core has run its course, maybe they turn Kuzmenko into additional assets if he can turn his play around.

 

[McJedi]

Then as a fan you should be disappointed. This was a big loss for the other top contenders.
1st, RyJo & Ritchie would have been a very similar, but better option IMO.
We still could have swung a Tanev trade to Van for Brewst

I'm thrilled the Avs didn't trade Ritchie for a rental. The Avs need a 2C and he's the best bet to have one in a few years. We don't have the cap space for a good one anyway so we'll have to use guys like Kevin Hayes or RyJo for a few years as stop gap. The salary cap doesn't allow any NHL team to be flush at all positions.

Ritchie is quite a bit higher level prospect than the guy you got. But RyJo isn't Kuzmenko level and you got some other stuff in the deal too.

Congrats to Vancouver, but they paid the full asking price. I'm very happy the Avs did not.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Feels like an overpay at first glance.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Good Summary:

 

[biturbo19]

You're seeing a ton of roster progression from Gulyayev. He's on the number 1 team in the eastern conference of the KHL and his roster progression from fringe player to core player in the span of five months is exactly the kind of acceleration you hope to see with younger players.

The KHL is a professional league. The best one in Europe. He plays games nightly vs men that are 24-38 years old. Hockey is everyone's career.

The coach has to win. His job isn't to get the guys ready for the next phase of their career. It's to win today. And it's been a very unfriendly league to younger players as a result. Even Mitckov has been healthy scratched and benched. But Gulyayev has played in 100% of his club's games where he's been healthy. And he's not some throw in. He's on the 2nd pair.

There are no other 18 year old B prospects playing 19 minutes a night on defense in a men's league on a top team. He's playing higher up his lineup and getting more ice time than either of Dmitriy Simashev (#D on his team and about 11 minutes a game) and Daniil But (this guy is also good - but gets around 11 minutes a game as a forward), two guys taken at 6th and 12th overall in the same 2023 draft and also in the KHL. Sometimes guys fall in the draft for reasons that turn out to be scouting mistakes. You'd probably call Simashev a A prospect because he was taken 6th overall in the excellent 2023 draft. Gulyayev plays on a better team and gets nearly twice as much ice time per game.

You just watch them post draft to see which guys make the next step and which guys don't.

Gulyayev is showing you he took a huge next step. He needs to take more, but if he's playing a core role with big minutes... his chances to continue his development are excellent. There isn't another level of the KHL in front of him. He's playing at the highest level now and he needs to get better at it to become top pair. He's 18. He's got time to get there.

Again, i'm not disputing any of that. Gulyayev, Ritchie, Brzustewicz have all had absolutely stellar progression in their D+1 years. It's exactly what you hope for and want to see. That's great.

But it's still just ~half a season at the amateur (or KHL ambiguous) level, of promising progression with an arrow pointing in the right direction.

Serious scouting is far more measured and far less volatile than "upgrading" guys by a full tier like that to "bluechip" status just because they're having half a year of exactly the sort of progress you'd like to see from a "B Prospect" who is trending well toward a serious NHL future.

Sounds like a lot from Van, but once you break it down, it isn't . Really depends on what you think of Brust's future, really. As of now, the 1st pick will be in the 30's....hardly going to be any gamebreakers available, and even getting a NHL'er will be unlikely. Kuz simply wasn't working out in VAN, and they got rid of his cap hit. I haven't followed Jurmo since he was drafted... I'm assuming he is a B prospect?

I also like to when teams make deals way before the TDL. It allows the player to get accustomed to his new team...that often takes time.

For CAL? Not the best return, TBH, but not terrible. i do think it was a good idea to not double down on their Huberdeau/Kadri mistakes, and sign Lindholm for 8/75M, or whatever.

I really like that VAN is going for it. Lindholm doesn't play D, but he might as well. One for those players who instantly will make the team D better, which will free up the other guy in his duties, allowing him to freewheel even more.

Yeah. At the end of the day...it's really not an unreasonable price to pay for getting a top deadline target, getting them early with more time to integrate and gel (which can be huge), and getting the exact guy who on paper at least, plugs directly in as exactly what they need most.


As for Jurmo...he's certainly not a "B Prospect". He's barely even a prospect at all at this point. It's more of a, "well he's tall i guess...we'll throw in his rights for ya" because they likely weren't going to bother offering him a contract.

 

[DS7]

Lots of pages so forgive me if it’s been addressed, but with Hronek and EP due for new contracts is this probably a rental?

Another thing this trade does for Vancouver is give an extra $5.5M this offseason getting out or Kuz's deal. We can't give petey, hronek, zad and lindholm raises but it gives us more flexibility than yesterday.

 

[wintersej]

CGY got a pretty big package back but ultimately VAN didn’t give up anything they could live without, the gave lot of pieces but ultimately the odds of them having a impact is pretty low, I feel like CGY probably moved too early… they would have gain from someone else setting the market price…

I think it comes down to them thinking that rehabbing Kuz is a good bet. He won’t shoot 27% for his career, but he can be better than he has shown this season. Every other contender was going to need retention or to send back a bad contract. At least Kuz has a chance to be more than a dump.

 

[bert]

Good trade for both teams.

I agree, Vancouver got their man, the best player on the market and Calgary got a great haul for an impending UFA. RHD men are few and far between I have seen alot of Brzustewicz he has some serious talent. He needs to get stronger and developed with patience but he has got nhl vision, hockey sense and skill. Stuff you cant really teach. If Kuzmenko turns it around this could look like an absolute dandy for Calgary. Nows the time for Calgary, they should have done this years ago but a small purge and retool is the way.

As a sens fan with no one to really cheer for I have watched alot of late games for Vancouver. Such a likeable team especially when they wear the black jerseys. They gotta get rid of those blue, green and whites they are ugly and so close to Seattle colours. Go with the Whites with the skate orange and yellow full time. The possibilities of a yellow and black third are tantalizing.

Good hockey trade. Deals like this then you look at what Dorion got for and extended Debrincat really put on exclamation mark on how bad a GM Dorion is and how great a GM Yzerman is.

 

[crackdown44]

I agree, Vancouver got their man, the best player on the market and Calgary got a great haul for an impending UFA. RHD men are few and far between I have seen alot of Brzustewicz he has some serious talent. He needs to get stronger and developed with patience but he has got nhl vision, hockey sense and skill. Stuff you cant really teach. If Kuzmenko turns it around this could look like an absolute dandy for Calgary. Nows the time for Calgary, they should have done this years ago but a small purge and retool is the way.

As a sens fan with no one to really cheer for I have watched alot of late games for Vancouver. Such a likeable team especially when they wear the black jerseys. They gotta get rid of those blue, green and whites they are ugly and so close to Seattle colours. Go with the Whites with the skate orange and yellow full time.

Good hockey trade. Deals like this then you look at what Dorion got for and extended Debrincat really put on exclamation mark on how bad a GM Dorion is and how great a GM Yzerman is.

Even with losing Gaudreau for nothing, if Calgary would have flipped both Huberdeau and Weegar with retention on their sweetheart deals after the Tkachuk trade they’d be swimming in assets and bottoming out right now

Probably wouldn’t have ended up signing Kadri and they could be selling Lindholm/Hanifin/Tanev and maybe Markstrom this year.

Would have been a pretty fast turnaround and they’d have a ton of cap space and high picks to use. A man can dream

 

[bert]

Even with losing Gaudreau for nothing, if Calgary would have flipped both Huberdeau and Weegar with retention on their sweetheart deals after the Tkachuk trade they’d be swimming in assets and bottoming out right now

Probably wouldn’t have ended up signing Kadri and they could be selling Lindholm/Hanifin/Tanev and maybe Markstrom this year.

Would have been a pretty fast turnaround and they’d have a ton of cap space and high picks to use. A man can dream

I was absolutely lambasted for saying they should have rebuilt after the covid season where they had the Canadian division. I didnt see the top end talent to go all the way specifically down the middle and an elite D man. They had so many assets and with Tkachuk and Gaudreau they had more control I saw the writing on the wall. Its too bad it was quite the opportunity. Anyways I am glad they are doing it now. Should get a first + for Tanev here, to me everyone should be on the table for Calgary. No one is taking Huberdeau he can get them to the cap floor if they decide to go nuclear.

P.S is that Alan Quine in your avatar? haha.

 

[InfinityIggy]

After sleeping on the deal, I have softened on it slightly.

Initially thought it was a fair deal, and I think it still is. However, there is no chip in this deal for Conroy to really hang his hat on. "High variance" deal as others have said. Has the potential to look really solid in a year... or look like mostly nothing outside the 1st. Will see!

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Liked it for both teams last night, liked it for both still this morning.

I suspect Lindy is gonna click really well with the Canucks. We'll see which Kuzmenko we get. If it's a 25-25 ish pace that's pretty decent.

All trades for rentals always seem to have a high bust trade chance for the team selling, that's what happens when you're moving a dollar for two quarters and some dimes/nickels. But I at least like the value on paper a lot more than the last time we sold off our stars in Bouw/Iggy.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Even with losing Gaudreau for nothing, if Calgary would have flipped both Huberdeau and Weegar with retention on their sweetheart deals after the Tkachuk trade they’d be swimming in assets and bottoming out right now

Probably wouldn’t have ended up signing Kadri and they could be selling Lindholm/Hanifin/Tanev and maybe Markstrom this year.

Would have been a pretty fast turnaround and they’d have a ton of cap space and high picks to use. A man can dream

For every team that burns it to the ground and bounces up, there is an Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa, etc who go nowhere for years. Creating a losing mentality gets you nowhere slowly.


Good trade for both sides. I like the assets the Flames got. Vancouver gets the best center on the market and fills a need. Win win.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Lindholm has played a lot of RW over his career, although he is better at C.

He is one of the best players in the Dot in the game. Canucks don’t have the greatest Cs in terms of FOW% (to my knowledge) so Putting such a great player in the Dot on the wing would be dumb imo