Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[LemonSauceD]

Lots of pages so forgive me if it’s been addressed, but with Hronek and EP due for new contracts is this probably a rental?

We will have roughly 41M next season to spend. About 13 or so guys to fill. Most of our UFA’s up front (Lafferty/Joshua/Blueger) etc won’t be coming back, and we have some good prospects that will likely make the jump to replace them next year.

41M to re sign Pettersson, Hronek, Zadorov, and perhaps maybe 1 of Lafferty/Joshua/Blueger, likely whoever comes the cheapest. Plenty of room to sign Lindholm if they plan to go that route.

But there’s no way we’re signing everyone we have currently so bargain hunting/organizational depth will be key. But re signing Lindholm is possible and I would imagine his run with us here down the stretch will dictate that.

 

[kvladimir]

While I don't think Lindholm walking inherently makes it a bad trade for VAN (especially when we don't know how the playoffs will go yet), for those thinking he is 100% gone as a UFA, keep in mind that VAN has an abundance of expiring contracts, so it really depends on what they prioritize after the season (assuming they wait on extending anyone).

EP40 and Hronek are obviously #1 and #2, but if Lindholm is #3, all they have to do is find cheaper replacements for any or all of Myers, Cole, Zadorov, DeSmith, Blueger and Joshua, or hope a few of those guys sign team friendly extensions (especially Lindholm).

Worth nothing that they have cost controlled players in the AHL who look primed to make the jump in Podkolzin, Raty and Bains, and perhaps serviceable Dmen in Juulsen, Hirose, Wolainen and Woo. Being more top heavy than this year next year is not the end of the world...

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Where is he projected to go, on the wing in the top 6, or 3rd line center?

 

[wetcoast]

Massive overpay by Vancouver especially considering Lindholm has been struggling this year and they're not likely to re-sign him. It's a cup or bust type of trade, and I don't think they're winning the cup. Also risky trading Brz too because If he develops into a stud, and he's projecting very well, he's going to be biting the Cancucks in the ass for years and years

That was my first glance reaction as well but even if they don't resign they have the cap space from moving Kuzmenkos contract.

That being said it's a really later first rounder and as much as I like Bruz his possible development into more than a top 4 second pairing Dman is iffy and we have Willander and EP in the system to alot in.

I like this trade alot as it's a win now and still leaves us in a good spot going forward.

 

[Vancity96]

Where is he projected to go, on the wing in the top 6, or 3rd line center?

Either C/wing with Petey or centring the second line with Miller paired up with Petey.

Mikheyev-Petey/Lindholm-Lindholm/Petey
Suter-Miller-Boeser

Or

Petey-Miller-Boeser
Suter-Lindholm-Mikheyev

I’m sure we’re going to be trying out both throughout the rest of the season and playoffs.

 

[McJedi]

Again, i'm not disputing any of that. Gulyayev, Ritchie, Brzustewicz have all had absolutely stellar progression in their D+1 years. It's exactly what you hope for and want to see. That's great.

But it's still just ~half a season at the amateur (or KHL ambiguous) level, of promising progression with an arrow pointing in the right direction.

Serious scouting is far more measured and far less volatile than "upgrading" guys by a full tier like that to "bluechip" status just because they're having half a year of exactly the sort of progress you'd like to see from a "B Prospect" who is trending well toward a serious NHL future.



Yeah. At the end of the day...it's really not an unreasonable price to pay for getting a top deadline target, getting them early with more time to integrate and gel (which can be huge), and getting the exact guy who on paper at least, plugs directly in as exactly what they need most.


As for Jurmo...he's certainly not a "B Prospect". He's barely even a prospect at all at this point. It's more of a, "well he's tall i guess...we'll throw in his rights for ya" because they likely weren't going to bother offering him a contract.

I guess my point is the Avs would be a bunch or morons to dangle Ritchie or Guylayev in trades today assuming B prospect value. T

That is how you potentially trade Phil Forsberg for some rental middle six guy.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Gotta think this was also another step by the org to show EP that they are a serious organization.
If this helps get him locked down for the long term, no one will miss what they gave up.

The issue with this type of attempt to prove the team is serious is that I can't remember the last time a team made an expensive TDL/mid-season trade for a big name pending UFA and won the Cup that year. So, Vancouver may have painted themselves into a corner here, having paid a high price for the biggest name on the rental market. If/when they don't win the Cup, they're almost forced to extend Lindholm even if the money/term doesn't make sense.

 

[blankall]

Heck, he's a 1C if given some talent to play with. But his play driving ability is only average.

Fair enough. Most competing teams will already have a #1 center who is driving the play. He definitely won't be expected to play as #1 center in Vancouver and that's not why they acquired him.

The issue with this type of attempt to prove the team is serious is that I can't remember the last time a team made an expensive TDL/mid-season trade for a big name pending UFA and won the Cup that year. So, Vancouver may have painted themselves into a corner here, having paid a high price for the biggest name on the rental market. If/when they don't win the Cup, they're almost forced to extend Lindholm even if the money/term doesn't make sense.

Vancouver gets almost half a season plus playoffs to see how good of a fit Lindholm is. If he's good they should extend him.

 

[biturbo19]

I guess my point is the Avs would be a bunch or morons to dangle Ritchie or Guylayev in trades today assuming B prospect value. T

That is how you potentially trade Phil Forsberg for some rental middle six guy.

I mean, that's fair. It's entirely reasonable for the Avs to just want to hang onto promising young players with big upside. Especially if they internally value you them like you do, contrasted with more likely league-wide perceptions.

I just don't think either is as entrenched as a true "A Prospect" as Forsberg was at the time of that hilarious Erat deal. Like Forsberg was a true Bluechip "can't miss" sort of prospect. ~Top-10 pick who was also tracking very well.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Will Vancouver be harder to play against with Lindholm? I think yes.
Did Calgary's retooling of their program improve? I think yes.

A good trade.

if your definition of "retooling" is trading lindholm for kuzmenko, then you need a better way of learning what retooling is. Calgary is rebuilding. They are different things.

 

[dman34]

3 players + 2 draft picks for Lindholm... kinda steep prize, no?
albeight two of them are prospects but still...

Lindholm + cap space

For

Kuz, Late 1st, Prospect who's not in Canuck's top 3 (let's call Brz a B+ prospect), Jurmo, Conditional 3rd/4th

It's definitely a quantity over quality type deal. Canucks are stacked for the playoffs. We won't really know about Calgary's pieces for a few years at least.

Great hockey trade. I think it helps both teams immensely.

 

[Figgy44]

Boltmann isn't worth mentioning. 0 chance they sign him. Bru will play in the AHL next year. No point in going back to the OHL.

I'm saying he's basically the only RD. If anything you're agreeing and amplifying my comment.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Nobody wants Edmonton either, and Vegas is Vegas .. man what a division bloodbath

if that is what you call a bloodbath, then the atlantic division is a god damn genocide.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Vancouver gets almost half a season plus playoffs to see how good of a fit Lindholm is. If he's good they should extend him.

I don't necessarily disagree, I just think it's risky. If he's good, what does that extension actually look like? Does he sign that extension before seeing what stupid offers he can get in UFA?

 

[BCNate]

Either C/wing with Petey or centring the second line with Miller paired up with Petey.

Mikheyev-Petey/Lindholm-Lindholm/Petey
Suter-Miller-Boeser

Or

Petey-Miller-Boeser
Suter-Lindholm-Mikheyev

I’m sure we’re going to be trying out both throughout the rest of the season and playoffs.

I think they keep Boeser with Miller hey play well with each other, and Lindholm with EP. Suter, Hoglander or Mikeheyev will slot in on the wings

 

[madmike77]

if your definition of "retooling" is trading lindholm for kuzmenko, then you need a better way of learning what retooling is. Calgary is rebuilding. They are different things.

Calgary just doesn't like to say 'rebuild'. But realistically that's what they're doing.

My guess is they put Kuzmenko into the top-6, give him a chance to pump up his scoring stats for the next year, then try to deal him next season.

 

[BKarchitect]

I’ll say this after looking at the Flames depth chart…they really needed an influx of potential players all over the blueline. Jurmo is a long-shot and Hunter has a long ways to go from being a junior stats machine to important NHL piece but they clearly needed to reinforce the pipeline at both sides.

I suspect any Hanifin or Tanev deals may also cast an eye on not just getting picks but tangible defensive assets. I can’t shake the idea than Bichsel + for Hanifin makes a lot of sense to continue to salvage pieces who can be groomed to fill this organization weakness for guys are gonna walk anyways (assuming that is Hanifin’s plan).

 

[wetcoast]

Gotta think this was also another step by the org to show EP that they are a serious organization.
If this helps get him locked down for the long term, no one will miss what they gave up.

I also think that they can resign Lindholm if everything goes well. Either way as a long suffering Canucks fan I feel they are on a mission this year and I like what they did.

It's also pretty amazing how quickly the Canucks have flipped the switch this season carrying on from last year.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

The Canucks could very well be the best team down the middle, they're at least top 5 in the NHL.

Pettersson
Miller
Lindholm
Suter
Blueger
Lafferty

 

[Detroit Knights]

Calgary just doesn't like to say 'rebuild'. But realistically that's what they're doing.

My guess is they put Kuzmenko into the top-6, give him a chance to pump up his scoring stats for the next year, then try to deal him next season.

I have noticed a lot of calgary fans don't understand the difference lol.

 

[Double Dion]

I have noticed a lot of calgary fans don't understand the difference lol.

It's not the fans who don't understand the difference. It's our owner who will never do a full rebuild. Tough to be a bottom 3 or 4 roster with the players they won't move. Markstrom, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson, Weegar, Kylington, Hanifin, Tanev. If you were really rebuilding why are they talking extending Hanifin? Why are you keeping all those guys over 30? How many guys like that did the Hawks keep? The answer is 0. Backlund and Coleman alone will win you too many games for a top 3 pick.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

I think they keep Boeser with Miller hey play well with each other, and Lindholm with EP. Suter, Hoglander or Mikeheyev will slot in on the wings

It would not be shocking to see Lafferty promoted to play with 2Elias from time to time. Fast, gritty, good at forechecking and has done well with Petey in the past.

 

[BCNate]

It would not be shocking to see Lafferty promoted to play with 2Elias from time to time. Fast, gritty, good at forechecking and has done well with Petey in the past.

I agree. This move gives them a lot of different options. They may even opt to keep the Lotto line together more often now as well.

 

[madmike77]

I have noticed a lot of calgary fans don't understand the difference lol.

Oh the fans know. It's the owner who doesn't understand how it works. I think there are two reasons they are going burn-down mode this time.

One is the pivot from Gaudreau-Tkachuk failed. Those two leaving really crushed the franchise.

The other is the Flames will have a new arena soon - generating much better margins than the current arena. I'm sure Edwards wants that new arena as full as possible and that won't happen if the team absolutely stinks. So it's better to stink now and be on the rise when the new arena is ready.

 

[tyhee]

Lmao it's a points projection based on current production in a players current league using historical averages of player growth. ...

So if I understand you correctly, it doesn't take into account an individual's strengths and weaknesses, just production, league and the average improvement of players of similar production and age in that league.

In my view that means it has almost no value as a tool for projecting junior players. Any fool can see the age, league and offensive production of a player without a projection of what it would come to if the player has average improvement.