Raptors Discussion: v97 Raptor's 2024-2025 - Training camp begins Oct. 1

[thehockeysong]

It's one thing to have the idea that "if a big player becomes available, a true star, have the team always in place to surround them so you can capitalize. In Toronto's case I think that makes sense, in the same type of move as Kawhi.

What I find weird is we weren't chasing a star NOW (by all accounts they weren't really trying to get Durant). And the idea seems to be wait for Barnes to be a bit older. But then why hang onto players that won't be around then!? Unless the vision for the team is to have all this current group around somehow..... but the 28 and 27 year old group could decline before that next star comes along.

Here's hoping it works!

 

[Bjindaho]

Lots of panic here, but let's see what this lineup does with a rim protector

Poeltl - Siakim - Barnes - OG - Van Vleet
Achiuwa - Boucher - Young - GTJ - Flynn
Hernangomez Banton/Koloko

 

[Eye Test]

Trade FVV plz all I ask

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lots of panic here, but let's see what this lineup does with a rim protector

Poeltl - Siakim - Barnes - OG - Van Vleet
Achiuwa - Boucher - Young - GTJ - Flynn
Hernangomez Banton/Koloko

That starting 5 should be very good on defense.
But they'll be very, very easy to defend on offense.

And the bench still sucks. Good bench players were going for low prices. If the plan is to try and compete, why not pick one up? Or is having Fred out there for 40 minutes playing hero ball the key to the playoffs?

 

[MAB1]

Masai and Webster are very overrated, this clinging to mediocrity is very fitting.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This was a "we gave you a legit centre, now go win" moment
I'm a bit more patient than most, but you'd have to think they'll blow it up next season if they see no improvement.
I may be wrong and this regime made the cardinal mistake of falling in love with their own players. I hope not, Fred specifically needs to go.

That seems right but it's not clear to me what exactly Masai expects this group of guys to "win" at this moment in time. Very weird.

 

[KPower]

overvalued their own players. epic fail by management.

 

[horner]

Masai and Webster are very overrated, this clinging to mediocrity is very fitting.

The shine is off

 

[GoonieFace]

That starting 5 should be very good on defense.
But they'll be very, very easy to defend on offense.

And the bench still sucks. Good bench players were going for low prices. If the plan is to try and compete, why not pick one up? Or is having Fred out there for 40 minutes playing hero ball the key to the playoffs?

Fred playing 40 minutes a game is almost a guarantee they will have a better shot in the lottery

Masai and Webster are very overrated, this clinging to mediocrity is very fitting.

Masai seems very smug, but I would like to see how it all plays out in the offseason. Hopefully they have a plan, but I’m not too confident they do based on the last 2 trade deadlines

 

[Eyedea]

Didn't seem like any team was willing to part with a first. Well aware that most people here would prefer to tank, but there's really no lost value in keeping FVV/GTJ if the offers were likely 2nds + salary dumps.

 

[MAB1]

The ELO rating of that team is one of the best of all time. Every team needs some luck to win in the playoffs, but that team was a legitimate title worthy team. Do they win if KD is healthy? Who knows. Did they deserve to win a title, based on the quality of the roster? There’s no question about it.

That Raptors team finished with an ELO rating of 1729...There have been over 23 champions in the history of the NBA that have exceeded that mark.

Weird definition of "one of the best of all time"

The shine is off

Don't underestimate the ability of Raptors fans to defend mediocrity.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That Raptors team finished with an ELO rating of 1729...There have been over 23 champions in the history of the NBA that have exceeded that mark.

Weird definition of "one of the best of all time"


Don't underestimate the ability of Raptors fans to defend mediocrity.

That's interesting. You say over 23, is there more than 23 better than the raps or is it exactly 23? I think there have been 76 titles won so if the the Raps are the 24th best of all-time, that's actually better than I would have though, and pretty damn good, even if not "all-time" good.

 

[blue stick]

FVV not as valued as some thought...

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Frustrating day, because it seems to run contrary to Masai's "play in for what?" philosophy from two years ago. I'm not too bothered about holding onto OG. If you want to move him, you'll still get a good return, with potentially more suitors in the summer. But to spend significant draft capital to get Poeltl, but to ALSO hold onto both FVV and GTJ makes next to no sense. You can't keep all three of them, and there's enough cap space out there to make a S&T less viable options. Will be interesting to see how he spins this, because this feels like the first real pressure point he's faced in 10 years. Every other misstep or hiccup has been largely explainable, but today he's going to face some genuine pushback.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I feel bad for some guys around here.. the Masai deadline and Dubas' comments on his trade deadline approach?

 

[trellaine201]

overvalued their own players. epic fail by management.

Looks like it. Btw why didn’t they find a true C a long time ago?

 

[MAB1]

That's interesting. You say over 23, is there more than 23 better than the raps or is it exactly 23? I think there have been 76 titles won so if the the Raps are the 24th best of all-time, that's actually better than I would have though, and pretty damn good, even if not "all-time" good.

The article I found relating to ELO was written in 2015. Based on the all-time teams ranked by ELO up to that point, 1729 would've placed them tied for 23rd all-time. Since then:

- The Warriors have had 2 championships (2015, 2017) higher than the Raptors best, their 2018 season was 1729 like the Raptors and their 2022 championship was lower (1712).
- The 2016 Cavs had a higher ELO than the 2019 Raptors team, the 2020 Lakers & 2021 Bucks didn't.

Since 2015, there have been 3 champs with a better ELO, 1 champ with the same ELO and 3 worse. The Raptors that season did in fact have a very good ELO rating, but calling it "one of the best of all-time" is a stretch. They weren't top 5-10, or even top 20-25 all-time.

 

[KapG]

Isn’t this draft suppose to be really, really, really good? Why are we trying to make a f***ing play-in .

 

[LaPlante94]

Looks like it. Btw why didn’t they find a true C a long time ago?

After Gasol they brought in that one guy who was pretty good on the Suns I believe and then he came here and wasn't the same player. Hard to replace a Gasol who was everything you ever wanted in a C. Can shoot the 3, playmaking ability and very good defender. Poetl might be 2 of those 3 things but he can't shoot the 3.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The article I found relating to ELO was written in 2015. Based on the all-time teams ranked by ELO up to that point, 1729 would've placed them tied for 23rd all-time. Since then:

- The Warriors have had 2 championships (2015, 2017) higher than the Raptors best, their 2018 season was 1729 like the Raptors and their 2022 championship was lower (1712).
- The 2016 Cavs had a higher ELO than the 2019 Raptors team, the 2020 Lakers & 2021 Bucks didn't.

Since 2015, there have been 3 champs with a better ELO, 1 champ with the same ELO and 3 worse. The Raptors that season did in fact have a very good ELO rating, but calling it "one of the best of all-time" is a stretch. They weren't top 5-10, or even top 20-25 all-time.

Thanks for the info, interesting stuff. So based on that I guess you could say that while the Raptors were definitely not an all-time great team or anything like that, they were definitely worthy champions, even above average when compared to other past winners. Cool!

What a fun ride that was!

 

[Suntouchable13]

The article I found relating to ELO was written in 2015. Based on the all-time teams ranked by ELO up to that point, 1729 would've placed them tied for 23rd all-time. Since then:

- The Warriors have had 2 championships (2015, 2017) higher than the Raptors best, their 2018 season was 1729 like the Raptors and their 2022 championship was lower (1712).
- The 2016 Cavs had a higher ELO than the 2019 Raptors team, the 2020 Lakers & 2021 Bucks didn't.

Since 2015, there have been 3 champs with a better ELO, 1 champ with the same ELO and 3 worse. The Raptors that season did in fact have a very good ELO rating, but calling it "one of the best of all-time" is a stretch. They weren't top 5-10, or even top 20-25 all-time.

You’re trying to discredit a championship, and I don’t get why you’d do that. Oh they weren’t one of the best teams of all time, Masai is a bum! Masai has done great here. How many 50 win seasons? This was truly one of the top teams in the NBA for a while. I trust him to get us back there.

 

[LaPlante94]

Isn’t this draft suppose to be really, really, really good? Why are we trying to make a f***ing play-in .

We're already in a play in spot. We could easily be as high as 6th seed close to 5th if we weren't so bad in 3 pt games. Got a 3-10 record in games within 3 points and 13-21 against teams above .500. When we're healthy I think we can easily compete with anyone in the East (Milwaukee and Boston obviously would be tough) and now with Brooklyn completely torn apart the East just got a little easier.

 

[LaPlante94]

The article I found relating to ELO was written in 2015. Based on the all-time teams ranked by ELO up to that point, 1729 would've placed them tied for 23rd all-time. Since then:

- The Warriors have had 2 championships (2015, 2017) higher than the Raptors best, their 2018 season was 1729 like the Raptors and their 2022 championship was lower (1712).
- The 2016 Cavs had a higher ELO than the 2019 Raptors team, the 2020 Lakers & 2021 Bucks didn't.

Since 2015, there have been 3 champs with a better ELO, 1 champ with the same ELO and 3 worse. The Raptors that season did in fact have a very good ELO rating, but calling it "one of the best of all-time" is a stretch. They weren't top 5-10, or even top 20-25 all-time.

What are we trying to prove here? All I'm seeing is that masai must be pretty damn good to have won a championship with 1 possible future HoF player instead of all these others with like 3-4 on them.

 

[MAB1]

FVV not as valued as some thought...

-Under 6ft
- Shot-chucking PG with terrible shooting splits
- Walking mismatch defensively (look at that game winner Kyrie hit on FVV, he might as well not even contest because of how short he is)
- Rumors of teammate beef
- Thinks he's better than he is
- 0 athleticism

People forget he was ruining the 2019 Raptors run up until he got hot against the Bucks. Calling him a poor man's Lowry is an insult to Lowry. FVV at most should be a floor-spacing 4th or 5th option in a starting 5 or 6th man off the bench. He's not someone you want to be one of your primary scorers because he doesn't possess the skills for that. This dude was a 4-year player at Wichita State and was undrafted...and the Raps thought he should be one of the faces of their team...you can't make this up.

What are we trying to prove here? All I'm seeing is that masai must be pretty damn good to have won a championship with 1 possible future HoF player instead of all these others with like 3-4 on them.

If you could read what I was responding to, you wouldn't be confused.

 

[Brobust]

I feel bad for some guys around here.. the Masai deadline and Dubas' comments on his trade deadline approach?

Why would we be bothered about Dubas' comments? He said he's not overpaying for rentals.