And no one should be more pissed off about this than ownership. They're facing the prospect of having to spend into the luxury tax to maintain a mediocre team, or lose some key pieces with nothing to replace them. Masai screwed up.
Raptors Discussion: v97 Raptor's 2024-2025 - Training camp begins Oct. 1
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And no one should be more pissed off about this than ownership. They're facing the prospect of having to spend into the luxury tax to maintain a mediocre team, or lose some key pieces with nothing to replace them. Masai screwed up.
MAB1
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- Jul 18, 2022
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Couldn't just trade FVV for the best offer possible, had to demand Mann from the Clippers and now they'll either lose FVV for nothing or give him a contract they'll regret the moment he puts pen to paper.
Masai's "patience" approach is just fluff talk for getting paid to do shit at a snail's pace.
Masai's "patience" approach is just fluff talk for getting paid to do shit at a snail's pace.
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Nothing makes sense with the Raptors and the trade deadline. I think that this is a huge failure that will impact the franchise for quite a few years going forward. I'm trying to look at this logically because as a fan I'm extremely unhappy with where this team is and appears to be going.
Most of the points have been covered already here. I want to focus on some things which may not have got as much attention. (I didn't read everything, sorry for any duplication).
"The guys will grow/improve ..." For some players perhaps, but not if they don't play! Mainly though, Scottie is the one we need to improve, especially with limited draft picks in our collection now. If we roll with this core, will he ever become more than a fourth option who defers to his veteran teammates? He needs the space to become "the guy". That can't happen if we keep the core together. When we landed Scottie and then saw his potential, so many people said everything the Raptors do going forward will be to maximize Scottie Barnes. This has not been the case at all.
Masai said something about "we know the draft" defending trading the pick for Poeltl. I don't know if this got much attention, but it's concerning to me. It hints that the Raptors think they are smarter than everyone else and can find talent with lower/fewer picks. The Thad/Koloko deal last year already hinted at this. It's true the Raptors have had luck grabbing talent later in the draft, but, they don't really believe they're going to grab a Siakam or OG with every late pick do they? They have also drafted Flynn, Bruno, David Johnson, etc, as would happen to any other team. The higher you draft, and the more often you draft, the better your chance at getting impact players.
Talking about how much they wanted Poeltl: There's nothing wrong with wanting him. But there should be a limit on the price you're willing to pay. So many other players moved today, most without a first-round pick involved. One of my biggest issues with Bryan Colangelo was that he seemed to toss away draft picks like they were nothing. I never thought I'd see Masai and Bobby doing this.
Masai was uncharacteristically anxious during today's press conference. His answers were not convincing to me - I didn't think that he believed everything he was saying. With absolutely nothing to back this up, I do wonder if the Raptors did have something big happening but if fell through very late. If that is the case, I think he should have just said so rather than falling back on everything else he said. If that is what happened. I'd like to believe my theory because the alternative is that he believes everything he said about the team, which to me is much more worrying.
At the end of the day, I feel like not only did they miss a huge opportunity to capitalize on selling some guys before they leave or get raises, they actively hurt the team through the Poeltl trade. The team is a little better today, but much worse off in the big picture. Masai has done great things for the Raptors but that does not and should not insulate him for criticism for actions that have the reverse effect. Hopefully he can salvage this in the summer as he says.
EDIT: One final thing - Masai had more than enough goodwill that I believe he could have pulled off a rebuild without too much anger from the fans and media. (Ownership ???) If the path he has now chosen does not work, I do not think that will be the case if they need to rebuild in a couple of years.
Most of the points have been covered already here. I want to focus on some things which may not have got as much attention. (I didn't read everything, sorry for any duplication).
"The guys will grow/improve ..." For some players perhaps, but not if they don't play! Mainly though, Scottie is the one we need to improve, especially with limited draft picks in our collection now. If we roll with this core, will he ever become more than a fourth option who defers to his veteran teammates? He needs the space to become "the guy". That can't happen if we keep the core together. When we landed Scottie and then saw his potential, so many people said everything the Raptors do going forward will be to maximize Scottie Barnes. This has not been the case at all.
Masai said something about "we know the draft" defending trading the pick for Poeltl. I don't know if this got much attention, but it's concerning to me. It hints that the Raptors think they are smarter than everyone else and can find talent with lower/fewer picks. The Thad/Koloko deal last year already hinted at this. It's true the Raptors have had luck grabbing talent later in the draft, but, they don't really believe they're going to grab a Siakam or OG with every late pick do they? They have also drafted Flynn, Bruno, David Johnson, etc, as would happen to any other team. The higher you draft, and the more often you draft, the better your chance at getting impact players.
Talking about how much they wanted Poeltl: There's nothing wrong with wanting him. But there should be a limit on the price you're willing to pay. So many other players moved today, most without a first-round pick involved. One of my biggest issues with Bryan Colangelo was that he seemed to toss away draft picks like they were nothing. I never thought I'd see Masai and Bobby doing this.
Masai was uncharacteristically anxious during today's press conference. His answers were not convincing to me - I didn't think that he believed everything he was saying. With absolutely nothing to back this up, I do wonder if the Raptors did have something big happening but if fell through very late. If that is the case, I think he should have just said so rather than falling back on everything else he said. If that is what happened. I'd like to believe my theory because the alternative is that he believes everything he said about the team, which to me is much more worrying.
At the end of the day, I feel like not only did they miss a huge opportunity to capitalize on selling some guys before they leave or get raises, they actively hurt the team through the Poeltl trade. The team is a little better today, but much worse off in the big picture. Masai has done great things for the Raptors but that does not and should not insulate him for criticism for actions that have the reverse effect. Hopefully he can salvage this in the summer as he says.
EDIT: One final thing - Masai had more than enough goodwill that I believe he could have pulled off a rebuild without too much anger from the fans and media. (Ownership ???) If the path he has now chosen does not work, I do not think that will be the case if they need to rebuild in a couple of years.
MAB1
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2022
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If Poetl was their intended C, why not go after him in FA instead of giving up picks to have his bird rights. FVV was coming off the books anyways. They effectively devalued their 2023 pick in the process because now they'll be better but they still have a first-round ceiling at best.
That press conference was depressing. Masai knew he was talking non sense, he just has no answers. The selfishness and confusion on the court with this team seems to be exactly how selfish and confusing the FO is. Seems like Nick wants the team to look a certain way, Masai seems like he’s still figuring out what to make of this team and then you have puppet Bobby who probably wants to go a certain direction but ultimately the final call is Masai’s
This FO has had 2 years to evaluate this core so when Masai stands up there and says growth isn’t linear and I believe growth from within, this is just coded messages basically saying we messed up. A rebuild should’ve started the second you drafted Barnes, and especially should’ve started after he had a ROY season.
Also the way they worked these contracts where everyone expires at the same time falls on management too. This whole situation is bad. Luckily we only gave away next years 1st rounder because I have a big feeling this summer this team is going to look a lot different.
This FO has had 2 years to evaluate this core so when Masai stands up there and says growth isn’t linear and I believe growth from within, this is just coded messages basically saying we messed up. A rebuild should’ve started the second you drafted Barnes, and especially should’ve started after he had a ROY season.
Also the way they worked these contracts where everyone expires at the same time falls on management too. This whole situation is bad. Luckily we only gave away next years 1st rounder because I have a big feeling this summer this team is going to look a lot different.
Also what is Masai been smoking, this team isn’t young. Our main guys are almost 30, eventually Masai has to stop kicking the can down the road and pick a direction. The smart decision would be to hand over the keys to Barnes, re-sign Trent, keep OG around, and deal the pecking order guys, the selfish players Masai mentioned (Fred, Pascal) you could get a haul for Pascal, Fred you could just let walk, tank, develop the young guys, give OG his shot at a bigger role and go forward with an actual plan. Cause right now they don’t have one
StrictlyCommercial
Registered User
Sounds like the league values FVV as much as Raptors fans. Not a guy worth $30 million a year.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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You really think you’re getting the same amount on a sign and trade as you would at the deadline? I don’t feel the same. But I hope you’re right. Because we are also pushing to not get a better draft pick as opposed to a fruitless playoff push.
Recent example of a sign and trade
Lowry to Florida
What were the rumored deals at the deadline
What they got in the sign and trade.
Lowry to Florida
What were the rumored deals at the deadline
What they got in the sign and trade.
I think that the filler could be better in a sign and trade.
In order to move Fred and GTJ, we needed a lesser Fred and GTJ coming back. Management doesn't believe in tanking.
If you move them in a sign and trade, you might lose some of the picks we were after but get back better pieces.
The rumoured deals at the time were that the Raptors were offered more from the 76ers (Maxey+), and possibly other teams, than they ended up getting from Miami (Precious). Of course, rumours are just that and we don't really know. I'm happy with Precious as the return in that deal in hindsight, although if Maxey was offered he would definitely be preferable.
There are two problems I see with this sign and trade approach for expiring UFA's:
1. You are passing on a known (offers at the deadline) for a very large unknown.
2. Lowry was still looked at as a star, although an aging one. Sign and trades for stars sometimes bring back significant returns. I don't think FVV and Trent are going to be looked at the same way, Even Chris Bosh brought back very little in a sign and trade when the Raptors moved him. Plus, there are some teams that can simply sign the player outright. An aging Lowry had a very narrow group of suitors, but these two guys may get interest from contenders and non-contenders alike. I doubt either leaves for nothing at all, but the sign and trade return may be much less than what could have been retrieved at the deadline. We will probably never know.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
LaPlante94
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- Apr 12, 2011
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Look what we got for Lowry. Cap dump and a good young prospect. Nobody probably wants to give up much for FVV at the deadline when he could just be a rental player and leave. Sign and trade might get us the same kind of players that Lowry got us in a cap dump and a young prospect. I'd be ok with picks if a team wouldn't give up a young prospect imo.
Kyle Lowry sheds light on why Raptors didn't move him at trade deadline
The Raptors gave Lowry the choice of picking where he wanted to go at the trade deadline. He decided to stay put.
ca.sports.yahoo.com
Dr.Funk
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Report: Golden State Warriors acquisition Gary Payton II fails physical, four-team trade in jeopardy | TSN
Gary Payton II has failed his physical exam with the Golden State Warriors and put the four-team trade in which the team acquired him in jeopardy, according to a report by Shams Charania and Anthony Slater of The Athletic.
www.tsn.ca
Dr.Funk
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2004
- 19,971
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Report: Golden State Warriors acquisition Gary Payton II fails physical, four-team trade in jeopardy | TSN
Gary Payton II has failed his physical exam with the Golden State Warriors and put the four-team trade in which the team acquired him in jeopardy, according to a report by Shams Charania and Anthony Slater of The Athletic.
LaPlante94
Registered User
- Apr 12, 2011
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Missing open 3s in the clutch. Name a better combo. Also heard the announcers say they Utah had 76 points in the paint.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
What a pathetic performance in the 4th quarter. Last six minutes…bad defence, poor shooting, settling for poor shots, no points on open looks., no driving to the basket. Hey Masai, you genius, this is the team you put faith in? When did you become incompetent?
So how did our new player look.
1 st + 2 ( 2 nd rd pks )
For VV and Trent
we should have found a Masi to trade with LOL
1 st + 2 ( 2 nd rd pks )
For VV and Trent
we should have found a Masi to trade with LOL
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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Well we seemed to have no issue giving up a first that was poorly protected and some other pieces for an expiring contract. Raps brass made a terrible decision and traded away draft capital when we should have been acquiring it. This deadline should force loss of jobs in the front office. We are a poorly built team that desperately needed to retool and instead we added to it without any internal correction. BrutalLook what we got for Lowry. Cap dump and a good young prospect. Nobody probably wants to give up much for FVV at the deadline when he could just be a rental player and leave. Sign and trade might get us the same kind of players that Lowry got us in a cap dump and a young prospect. I'd be ok with picks if a team wouldn't give up a young prospect imo.
Kyle Lowry sheds light on why Raptors didn't move him at trade deadline
The Raptors gave Lowry the choice of picking where he wanted to go at the trade deadline. He decided to stay put.
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