Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations

[BankStreetParade]

So you think that an (at the time) interim GM waiting less than 20 games into his tenure to fire a coach is waiting too long. Gotcha. I personally think the coach should have been gone two years ago. A year and two months ago at the absolute latest. So I get the frustration.

Where it goes off the rails is making a false equivalency regarding accountability in that scenario to accountability under the previous management group. A group that oversaw failed season after failed season. Scandal after scandal. It was a shitshow. Equating (or even close to it) a 5 year debacle where the results were objectively bad to 4 months where there has been very little chance to make true change (in season) is crazy. Especially since the new group has done more to address needs in that 4 months than the previous guys did in 5 years.

The fact that you personally, who preached patience and support for that group through 5 years of failure, are calling out the new management group for not acting fast enough after less than 30 games is what people might find unpalatable and dishonest.

Plus people tend to not really side with people who go on unhinged rants accusing others of having mental health issues.

You have a great weekend!

No one compared the last group to this group. The only comparison was strictly on the line of accountability and how the fanbase demanded accountability with the previous group but seems unwilling to hold the new group to the same standard they set because they're "new", which I think is a huge pile of bullshit of an excuse.

Even if we didn't use the last regime as a baseline for expectations, it's unfair to judge the new GM on the decisions he makes? I just find that extraordinary. He needed more time to know this team had slow starts 2 years in a row that derailed their year and were on their way to a third? Shouldn't that have been in the day 1 debriefing with the former GM as he learned about the state of the team, expectations, players in the organization, etc.? He was working with Edmonton leading up to his hiring, it's not like he came from outer space.

If you take over a fledgling business, as a CEO, you should be up to speed on the most pressing issues within a couple of weeks, at the most. Most competent CEOs have already analyzed and come up with solutions for the issues they think pose the most significant hurdle to the company's success before they've even started. They bring those ideas to the table before they're hired. They outline a vision and pathway for success. It shouldn't take months and months on the job to come to the conclusion that someone in your command has had performance issues and should be on a tight leash. They should know the weak points before they are handed the reins.

Quite frankly, I don't buy the story. I don't buy the story of too much change being too much for the players, either. I don't buy the story of the ownership change delay causing all these issues. There's no reason Andlauer didn't have an advisor do an in-depth analysis of the organization during the due diligence phase and come up with immediate, actionable points to address. All the prospective ownership groups sat down with the board of directors and combed through the team's state of the union to get an understanding of the team's financials and operations.

Sure, you maybe missed the boat on a GM search or a head coach search but they should have known what the likeliest scenarios were and planned for each of them accordingly. That's what best in class means. Prepared for anything and everything.

And, to the bolded, I don't know what point you're trying to make? You don't think we should have accepted a rebuild? Or what?

 

[Micklebot]

Perhaps some teams did move on. But the only team that did hire him has an 81 year old GM who likely doesn't give a f*** if Patrick tries down the line to run a little interference down the road

Why he wasn't getting hired isn't something I care too much about. I'm just happy that when he did get hired, it wasn't here

He wasn't my choice, so I'll agree with your second point, and move on.

I think there will be some good candidates come this summer; Gallant and Berube, maybe a team that misses the playoffs will relieve their current guy (Pens, TBL and LAK all look vulnerable)

I'm not a big fan of the idea we might go after Gruden, but he isn't a bad option from what I understand.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

No one compared the last group to this group. The only comparison was strictly on the line of accountability and how the fanbase demanded accountability with the previous group but seems unwilling to hold the new group to the same standard they set because they're "new", which I think is a huge pile of bullshit of an excuse.

Even if we didn't use the last regime as a baseline for expectations, it's unfair to judge the new GM on the decisions he makes? I just find that extraordinary. He needed more time to know this team had slow starts 2 years in a row that derailed their year and were on their way to a third? Shouldn't that have been in the day 1 debriefing with the former GM as he learned about the state of the team, expectations, players in the organization, etc.? He was working with Edmonton leading up to his hiring, it's not like he came from outer space.

If you take over a fledgling business, as a CEO, you should be up to speed on the most pressing issues within a couple of weeks, at the most. Most competent CEOs have already analyzed and come up with solutions for the issues they think pose the most significant hurdle to the company's success before they've even started. They bring those ideas to the table before they're hired. They outline a vision and pathway for success. It shouldn't take months and months on the job to come to the conclusion that someone in your command has had performance issues and should be on a tight leash. They should know the weak points before they are handed the reins.

Quite frankly, I don't buy the story. I don't buy the story of too much change being too much for the players, either. I don't buy the story of the ownership change delay causing all these issues. There's no reason Andlauer didn't have an advisor do an in-depth analysis of the organization during the due diligence phase and come up with immediate, actionable points to address. All the prospective ownership groups sat down with the board of directors and combed through the team's state of the union to get an understanding of the team's financials and operations.

Sure, you maybe missed the boat on a GM search or a head coach search but they should have known what the likeliest scenarios were and planned for each of them accordingly. That's what best in class means. Prepared for anything and everything.

And, to the bolded, I don't know what point you're trying to make? You don't think we should have accepted a rebuild? Or what?

So you don't think there are temporal aspects to accountability? Time isn't a factor? That's no way to run anything, much less an NHL team.

Staios made it clear he talked to all the key stakeholders (including the players) when he came in. After doing that he decided to give the coach a chance, out of fairness to him and out of respect for the players wishes. I personally respect managers who listen to and take recommendations from their personnel. Staios did that until he deemed the situation untenable and then removed the people he felt were responsible for poor performance. And he did this after game #26 of the season. I can't stress that enough.

As for knowing what was going on with the team before joining it? You may know how their results but you don't know the inner workings. For all the incoming group knew DJ Smith was just overwhelmed because his staff was terrible and he lacked support. Having joined many organizations over my working career I know that what you see from the outside is not always representative of what's going on below the surface. Staios cut the cord after 26 games this season. Hardly seems like dragging your feet, although frankly I would have liked to see it sooner. I hadn't spoken to all the members of the team though.

As for not wanting a rebuild? Of course we all were OK with a rebuild. What I didn't want was the terrible veteran signings and trades. I didn't want Erik Gudbransson playing top 4 for 75% of a season in which he played terrible hockey. I didn't want to watch the same failed breakout attempts by the team with seemingly no intervention from the coaching staff. I could go on and on as to why I lost patience with the former group long before this year. And I'll hold the current group to the same sort of standard. But I won't do it after 4 months of in season management. To me that's premature.

 

[Relapsing]

a fun hobby

I think it's fair to say that some may lose sight of this from time to time.

It's a hobby. It's for fun. Don't take yourself or any of it too seriously.

It's the reason I keep returning to my fantasy league even though I never win... It's just for fun.

 

[GCK]

He don’t see the fan that we want Roy. But I blame more Staois and Poulin that don’t have the balls to hired Patrick. They were scared.

Roy is like old dynamite, you never know when he’s going to blow up.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

All I know is I f***in love this team. Everyone else can say whatever the hell they want and be miserable, but I'm giving the new regime plenty of time to figure this out and making this a fun hobby again. I have loved this team religiously since I was a kid and I want that back. Melnyk took that out of me for a while and it was hard to bear, but I sure as shit am not gonna come guns blazing at the new guys as if living in that angry or hopeless mentality is where I want to be as a Senators fan.

It's time to hoo rah these mofo's to death. Go JM, Go Alfie, Go Stu, Go Brady, Go Poulin, Go every damn person in that organization as far as I'm concerned.

I hear ya on that sentiment. Let's give the new guys a chance and park that special brand of cynicism at the door for a bit. We don't know what a new ownership group with deep pockets can do, and it will take some time to unfold. For some it seems like being a Senator fan means you need to inherit an enigmatic inferiority complex. Martin has already got this team playing better and there's some talent on the team. So, let's give those factors combined with new, deep pocketed ownership a bit of chance to see what can happen. This is supposed to be fun and a distraction from daily drudgery, so why not enjoy the ride?

 

[BankStreetParade]

So you don't think there are temporal aspects to accountability? Time isn't a factor? That's no way to run anything, much less an NHL team.

Staios made it clear he talked to all the key stakeholders (including the players) when he came in. After doing that he decided to give the coach a chance, out of fairness to him and out of respect for the players wishes. I personally respect managers who listen to and take recommendations from their personnel. Staios did that until he deemed the situation untenable and then removed the people he felt were responsible for poor performance. And he did this after game #26 of the season. I can't stress that enough.

As for knowing what was going on with the team before joining it? You may know how their results but you don't know the inner workings. For all the incoming group knew DJ Smith was just overwhelmed because his staff was terrible and he lacked support. Having joined many organizations over my working career I know that what you see from the outside is not always representative of what's going on below the surface. Staios cut the cord after 26 games this season. Hardly seems like dragging your feet, although frankly I would have liked to see it sooner. I hadn't spoken to all the members of the team though.

As for not wanting a rebuild? Of course we all were OK with a rebuild. What I didn't want was the terrible veteran signings and trades. I didn't want Erik Gudbransson playing top 4 for 75% of a season in which he played terrible hockey. I didn't want to watch the same failed breakout attempts by the team with seemingly no intervention from the coaching staff. I could go on and on as to why I lost patience with the former group long before this year. And I'll hold the current group to the same sort of standard. But I won't do it after 4 months of in season management. To me that's premature.

No, situations are a factor. Circumstance and context are a factor. This isn't 2019-20. We're not talking about a team bottoming out for draft picks, assembled to be as cheap a roster as possible, filled with misfit parts and guys on their way out of the league. Under that context, time would be a factor. There's no rush to get where you're going because it's about the process and not the results. Now we're in the getting results phase of things. There's very little wiggle room for mistakes and inexperience. This team needs to make the playoffs next year. Not be "in the conversation" but actually be a solid playoff team. That's the difference. It's not Andlauer and Staios' responsibility that this is where things are at but it's their job to do their best under these expectations and in this context.

I'm happy to be patient when the team is rebuilding. Do I love it? No, of course not. Watching garbage hockey for years is not something I looked forward to. However, the promise of success that comes with high draft picks and a stockpile of young talent can help with that feeling. I can even be patient when a really young team faces significant adversity, as they learn the ropes. Now? No more patience. And it's not a reflection of "who's in charge" like some of you guys wanna believe, it's a reflection of the context and circumstances. We shouldn't have been a bottom of the league team this year. I could have enjoyed a competitive season that didn't end up with the playoffs but at least we would have been there and building toward something. Instead, it's my opinion that the people in charge came in not understanding the context and missed the opportunity to do something tangible early in the season.

Good managers get feedback from their employees but ultimately they make the best decision and they follow the vision they want for their organization. If they had fired DJ at the 10 game mark, I'm not saying they would have been a playoff team but I'm 100% sure they wouldn't have been one of the worst teams in the league this year. That's the difference.

 

[BondraTime]

Sens never missed out on Roy, that’s Quebec media in a head spin.

Any team could have had him at any point in the past 8 years. He wasn’t being looked at because he isn’t a top end guy teams are looking for, and doesn’t fit with many organizations.

They likely would have interviewed him, and likely would have went elsewhere.

I’d have been perfectly fine, happy even, with Roy, but making it out to be a huge mistake and blunder is bonkers.

 

[DueDiligence]

If you take over a fledgling business, as a CEO, you should be up to speed on the most pressing issues within a couple of weeks, at the most. Most competent CEOs have already analyzed and come up with solutions for the issues they think pose the most significant hurdle to the company's success before they've even started.

Quite obvious you've never run a company let alone bought one. A new owner will have certain assumptions and ideas derived from doing their due diligence but it will take months to truly understand what is going on and prove or disprove their assumptions. Only dam foolish people make snap decisions based on incomplete knowledge.

 

[JD1]

Quite obvious you've never run a company let alone bought one. A new owner will have certain assumptions and ideas derived from doing their due diligence but it will take months to truly understand what is going on and prove or disprove their assumptions. Only dam foolish people make snap decisions based on incomplete knowledge.

Not disagreeing with you but now think back. How many thought Dorion and DJ would be terminated the moment the ink was dry on the signing paper?

 

[Loach]

Quite obvious you've never run a company let alone bought one. A new owner will have certain assumptions and ideas derived from doing their due diligence but it will take months to truly understand what is going on and prove or disprove their assumptions. Only dam foolish people make snap decisions based on incomplete knowledge.

A couple weeks. Lol. During the sale process we were all told that nothing would happen for at least a year because new owners would need to get an understanding of everything. That people were holding thier breath if they thought DJ/Dorion would be let go. .......but now it should only take two weeks. What a joke.

 

[Loach]

Not disagreeing with you but now think back. How many thought Dorion and DJ would be terminated the moment the ink was dry on the signing paper?

I think that depended on when the new owners had control of the team. I don't think anybody here thought that after a year+ of bidding, due diligence etc, that it would take 3 months to finalize things.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Not disagreeing with you but now think back. How many thought Dorion and DJ would be terminated the moment the ink was dry on the signing paper?

I don’t think many thought they would be terminated when the ink dries a week before training camp.

How many in the past have been let go a week before training camp in the past. Has any team done that in the NHL?

If transfer happened in June or July then would of been more likely.

 

[JD1]

I think that depended on when the new owners had control of the team. I don't think anybody here thought that after a year+ of bidding, due diligence etc, that it would take 3 months to finalize things.

That's a different issue. A lot of people here felt they'd get canned the day the ink was dry. And a lot thought the only reason it didn't happen was because the sale dragged on almost to the start up of camp.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just highlighting different perspectives

 

[Loach]

That's a different issue. A lot of people here felt they'd get canned the day the ink was dry. And a lot thought the only reason it didn't happen was because the sale dragged on almost to the start up of camp.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just highlighting different perspectives

One influnces the other though. Not a different issue at all. 2 1/2 months before the season = time to make changes. 2 weeks = no time.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

When Ottawa returned from Sweden, they were sitting at one game over .500 (8 wins vs 7 losses)
And were lucky to be there with the benefit of an OT win and a SO win in Sweden.

They then had roughly 6 days between games, and had ample time for a practice or two... don't remember if they did, or not... but proceeded to go on a three game losing streak, with the third being vs the Blue Jackets..... that, for me was when DJS should have been shown the door.... but our rookie GM let DJS stay on for another 8 games.

By appointing an interim Coach, that signaled to me that SS had not seriously scoured the pool of available head coaches.... as his game plan reportedly was going to allow DJ to ride out the season, let his contract expire and bring in his good buddy Gruden.

Now it still seems to be the plan, but J Martin will finish out the season, and Gruden is still allegedly on the horizon.

seems to be a waste of time if his mind is set on Gruden, has SS inquired for permission to interview Gruden? I have not heard that, but he should have, and if allowed, he should bring him in now, not in the offseason.

No I'm not excited about dividends being created by J Martin as the teams plays out the season, there would have been dividends no matter who was hired to coach (full time) .

 

[Golden_Jet]

And a lot thought the only reason it didn't happen was because the sale dragged on almost to the start up of camp.

That’s exactly why it didn’t happen.

 

[JD1]

One influnces the other though. Not a different issue at all. 2 1/2 months before the season = time to make changes. 2 weeks = no time.

No. @DueDiligence was initially referring to a snap decision. That the correct way to go about it was to take your time and investigate, learn, decide etc.

What I highlighted was the number of people that thought a snap decision would be made in terms of PD and DJ being fired day one and that it only never happened because of the sale delay.

 

[JD1]

That’s exactly why it didn’t happen.

So you think had the sale not dragged on, that Andlauer would have made a snap decision and fired the two the day he took control?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Quite obvious you've never run a company let alone bought one. A new owner will have certain assumptions and ideas derived from doing their due diligence but it will take months to truly understand what is going on and prove or disprove their assumptions. Only dam foolish people make snap decisions based on incomplete knowledge.

Yes, it will take months to understand everything that's going on. Organizations on the scale of the Senators are complex and include a ton of departments, department heads and staff. There's a ton of organizational bureaucracy to wade through when you're doing a comprehensive review of all practices and standards.

It shouldn't, however, take that long to understand the most pressing issues. Especially when it comes to a professional sports team where decisions come from hierarchies and you can know the key decision makers during the lead-up to the takeover.

It's absolutely ridiculous that everyone knew, with 100% certainty, that they were planning on replacing DJ and Dorion at or before season's end but somehow couldn't have expected to replace them on an accelerated timeline. Only fools let people who are negative assets to an organization continue to operate within the organization because they don't want the perception of acting too quickly. That's actually absurd to even have to say.

A couple weeks. Lol. During the sale process we were all told that nothing would happen for at least a year because new owners would need to get an understanding of everything. That people were holding thier breath if they thought DJ/Dorion would be let go. .......but now it should only take two weeks. What a joke.

In this scenario, who is the we and who are the ones who were telling you?

 

[Golden_Jet]

So you think had the sale not dragged on, that Andlauer would have made a snap decision and fired the two the day he took control?

I don’t know what they would of done, but it’s way more likely they would of made a change, vs a week before camp, when no team has a let a coach go then.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

When Ottawa returned from Sweden, they were sitting at one game over .500 (8 wins vs 7 losses)
And were lucky to be there with the benefit of an OT win and a SO win in Sweden.

They then had roughly 6 days between games, and had ample time for a practice or two... don't remember if they did, or not... but proceeded to go on a three game losing streak, with the third being vs the Blue Jackets..... that, for me was when DJS should have been shown the door.... but our rookie GM let DJS stay on for another 8 games.

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By appointing an interim Coach, that signaled to me that SS had not seriously scoured the pool of available head coaches.... as his game plan reportedly was going to allow DJ to ride out the season, let his contract expire and bring in his good buddy Gruden.

Now it still seems to be the plan, but J Martin will finish out the season, and Gruden is still allegedly on the horizon.

seems to be a waste of time if his mind is set on Gruden, has SS inquired for permission to interview Gruden? I have not heard that, but he should have, and if allowed, he should bring him in now, not in the offseason.

No I'm not excited about dividends being created by J Martin as the teams plays out the season, there would have been dividends no matter who was hired to coach (full time) .

Now consider that the entire bolded part is unknown and your assumption. The vibe I get is they want to have a pool of candidates, which is better served in the summer, and will do due process to choose their guy through a series of interviews. I'll bet Gruden will get an interview, but a more veteran guy will be chosen.

No. @DueDiligence was initially referring to a snap decision. That the correct way to go about it was to take your time and investigate, learn, decide etc.

What I highlighted was the number of people that thought a snap decision would be made in terms of PD and DJ being fired day one and that it only never happened because of the sale delay.

I think it's fair to say that the "day 1" people weren't being reasonable or were exaggerating. The idea that they may be let go after due process was the more common, reasonable opinion.

 

[DueDiligence]

That's a different issue. A lot of people here felt they'd get canned the day the ink was dry. And a lot thought the only reason it didn't happen was because the sale dragged on almost to the start up of camp.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Just highlighting different perspectives

Ahhhhh NO.

 

[JD1]

Ahhhhh NO.

Ya. That view was expressed plenty.

I always held your view that there'd be a period of time where he was analyzing the situation, gathering data, weighing alternatives, etc before acting

 

[Micklebot]

One influnces the other though. Not a different issue at all. 2 1/2 months before the season = time to make changes. 2 weeks = no time.

to be fair, both Andlauer and Staois have talked about their desire not to upend things and promote stability, bringing in support to what already existed.

While I do think it's a valid point to suggest the timing of the sale being finalized made it far less conducive to a complete overhaul, it seems that unless Staois and Andlauer are being a little less than honest, their intentions were always to bolster what was on place and make changes the next offseason.