Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VI

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

Rumour on the Jets board that a deal with the Leafs was killed by the Trouba camp because he wouldn't go. I would love to know what would have been coming back to the Jets. Reilly would be my guess.

Is this poster vetted by the mods?

Why would a team have a deal worked out without having a deal with Trouba? That doesn't sound realistic considering what you are going to have to pay Trouba will affect his value and anyteam is free to talk to him. I wouldn't be shocked if he nixed Toronto, but I doubt there was a completed deal without a team actually talking to Trouba first.

Yeah, I was thinking this too

 

[Hunter368]

Kapanen?

He offers us nothing. Zero interest

 

[haveandare]

And I'd wager your guess would be wrong.

Gardner plus would be the safer assumption.

And the plus being not anyone named Marner, Nylander, Matthews, or Reilly.

Jets fans haven't figured it out yet, but if the demand is a left-shot D-man, Winnipeg is taking the lesser player in comparison to Trouba. Your not getting a one-for-one deal. No team is trading Winnipeg an equal caliber LD for a hold-out malcontent like Trouba.

The team getting Trouba would have to add most likely.

Most would peg Reilly is at least Trouba's equal if not better. So you can effectively rule him out. Common sense would tell you the Leafs would never do that.

Get ready for a dozen pages of posts about how you're wrong and not playing doesn't effect value and Trouba is like a fine wine getting better the more he sits without playing meaningful NHL games.

 

[57special]

Interesting

Just perused a few other trade threads (1d and top 4d threads).
Based on what I read there... basically there are close to none of these available anywhere. Almost no fans would even consider moving one for anything less than massive over pays.

22 year old RHD top pair / top 4 seems to be automatically worth a lot. If the main piece back isn't a similar LHD then it seems like the amount teams would part with to get one is huge. Based on this thread young RHD is a luke warm item to p/up. According to those threads they are like an extinct species.

Trouba's value dropping is very unlikely given 31 teams will need top end young talent. It also goes to show why the Jets just want to keep him. Often people say just take these forwards and flip them for another D. Well it's clear that is VERY difficult to do.

4 weeks on the nose for something to happen.

Jets are trying to find a team that has an similarly talented LHD of the same age, and has a need for a RHD, and is willing to put up with Trouba's salary demands, and be a team that is located in a place that Trouba wants to go.

 

[Hunter368]

Get ready for a dozen pages of posts about how you're wrong and not playing doesn't effect value and Trouba is like a fine wine getting better the more he sits without playing meaningful NHL games.

He didn't specifically say that. He stated why would a team trade a signed equal level LHD for a unsigned RHD like Trouba.

Very different point then you posted here. He's stating a valid point that many jets fans have acknowledged in the past. Chevy's demand is a tough one to meet.....but I suspect he knew this when he stated it. Sending Trouba a clear message.

 

[heretik27]

Jets are trying to find a team that has an similarly talented LHD of the same age, and has a need for a RHD, and is willing to put up with Trouba's salary demands, and be a team that is located in a place that Trouba wants to go.

Exactly. This is why he's still sitting on his couch, because he's unwilling to play in certain areas to help us trade him. We're not just going to let him walk for pennies on the dollar because he took his ball and went home to mommy and daddy.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Chevy has a chance to salvage this, I hope he doesn't let his pride cloud his judgement. Letting this drag on past Dec would be a travesty imo.

Trouba loses for the obvious reasons (money)
Chevy/Jets lose by not getting any value on a player and it hurts the brand imo. You should be building an Organization players WANT to be apart of, its conducive to winning. "Sticking it" to the kid doesn't solve anything in my mind other than naturally deterring college FAs from wanting to sign there (as an example).

There are ramifications to this type of situation that go far beyond the current situation.

This is very different than Stevie Y playing hardball with Drouin whining on his ELC about playing time....

Yeah, you are clearly looking at it from the perspective of an NYR fan that wants to acquire a player for less than his worth. From a Winnipeg Jets perspective, Trouba is asking for rights he does not have as a player just exiting an entry-level contract. He can ask for a trade, but it does not need to be granted. By not signing Overhardt is also attempting to control the trade process. The Jets are smartly saying that you either need to sign with us and we will control where you wind up over time, or sit.

Trouba will only likely be traded when the Jets control the process and are made to feel whole in the return. They also likely don't feel that way at present when the agent is limiting the number of suitors - which prevents the GM from viewing a full array of his options. That is probably why people like Dreger and Friedman are currently saying they've doubts a trade will occur. A team loaded with kids can't afford to be viewed as an organization that can be pushed around by outsiders like Overhardt.

 

[nyr__1994]

Jets are trying to find a team that has an similarly talented LHD of the same age, and has a need for a RHD, and is willing to put up with Trouba's salary demands, and be a team that is located in a place that Trouba wants to go.

Thats it? Should be a piece of cake...

 

[garyturner3]

Rumour on the Jets board that a deal with the Leafs was killed by the Trouba camp because he wouldn't go. I would love to know what would have been coming back to the Jets. Reilly would be my guess.

I'm no doctor, but I can say with 100% certainty Rielly was not coming back in any deal that may or may not have been agreed on.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Most would peg Reilly is at least Trouba's equal if not better. So you can effectively rule him out. Common sense would tell you the Leafs would never do that.

The counter to that is that Trouba does not exist within a vacuum. The Jets own a ton of ammo to use to acquire an upgrade if they wanted to go that route.

 

[wintersej]

Yeah, you are clearly looking at it from the perspective of an NYR fan that wants to acquire a player for less than his worth. From a Winnipeg Jets perspective, Trouba is asking for rights he does not have as a player just exiting an entry-level contract. He can ask for a trade, but it does not need to be granted. By not signing Overhardt is also attempting to control the trade process. The Jets are smartly saying that you either need to sign with us and we will control where you wind up over time, or sit.

Trouba will only likely be traded when the Jets control the process and are made to feel whole in the return. They also likely don't feel that way when the agent is limiting the number of suitors - which prevents the GM from viewing a full array of his options. That is probably why people like Dreger and Friedman are currently saying they've doubts a trade will occur, and that is because a team loaded with kids can't afford to be viewed as an organization that can be pushed around by outsiders like Overhardt.

You are trying to blame Overhardt for representing what Trouba wants. Trouba wants out of WPG. He doesn't want to be a Jet. And he is willing to give up $$$ to not be a Jet. Trouba signed Overhardt to help him get what he wants, but it's Trouba that is making the choices as to where he wants to go and where he will sign. Many Jets fans seem to be doing mental gymnastics to try to make Overhardt the bad guy, but not Trouba.

 

[CaptainChef]

They either believe the company line or are shills for Chevy. What else would the Jets tell anyone if they want to make the best deal they can by December 1st. I would put the odds at 90% that he is traded, 9% he signs, and 1% he sits out.

Well you're awfully optimistic for a trade. Poll on the Jets website has about half thinking he will resign, sl more than a quarter thinking he'll be traded, and under a quarter thinking he'll sit out after Dec 1.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Kane trade - We trade top 6 forward and a top 4 D for a top 6 forward (who we extended) and a top 4 D plus 2 first Rd picks (Armia & 1st Rd pick) and a very high 2rd pick that the organization was very high on.

Trouba - What most offers being posted is Trouba who is a top pairing D for misc pieces......which is not as desirable when one considers how strong our prospect pool is. We have good or decent players or prospects in all positions except D.....which were poor in. Most offers are giving as the main piece is a forward and sometimes add a minor D prospect. This is not ideal to the Jets, ideally the main piece should be a LHD player or prospect. No point adding a slight upgrade at forward, while creating a massive crater of a hole at D.

I suspect this is partly Chevy's POV. On a side note I found it interesting that the Coyotes have decided to keep Chychrun up past his nine games burning a year of his ELC when the are last in the NHL. Show casing him to Chevy maybe? Hmmm

I get that, but if Trouba isnt willing to sign and has said that he will not do it. Getting something good for him now is better them letting him sit for 3 years? Highly doubt that will happen but you understand what im saying. No point letting this drag out for a year or two. Highly doubt the return will be alot better in a year. Coyotes could deal Chychrun since they have solid LH defense depth but he is younger, ELC and he will be unreal imo! Hard to let a player go when he is that young and is already as good as he is. Never understood how he was available as the 16th pick. Steal for Arizona! Was easily in my top 10 and I would rank him above Olli Juolevi who was the highest drafted defensemen in that draft(#5).

 

[Gump Hasek]

You are trying to blame Overhardt for representing what Trouba wants. Trouba wants out of WPG. He doesn't want to be a Jet. And he is willing to give up $$$ to not be a Jet. Trouba signed Overhardt to help him get what he wants, but it's Trouba that is making the choices as to where he wants to go and where he will sign. Many Jets fans seem to be doing mental gymnastics to try to make Overhardt the bad guy, but not Trouba.

Not sure where I ever referred to him as a bad guy. I essentially referred to him as an outsider attempting to exert leverage in an area where he has none. I don't fault the attempt, but rather, I doubt it will prove successful.

 

[nyr__1994]

Yeah, you are clearly looking at it from the perspective of an NYR fan that wants to acquire a player for less than his worth. From a Winnipeg Jets perspective, Trouba is asking for rights he does not have as a player just exiting an entry-level contract. He can ask for a trade, but it does not need to be granted. By not signing Overhardt is also attempting to control the trade process. The Jets are smartly saying that you either need to sign with us and we will control where you wind up over time, or sit.

Trouba will only likely be traded when the Jets control the process and are made to feel whole in the return. They also likely don't feel that way at present when the agent is limiting the number of suitors - which prevents the GM from viewing a full array of his options. That is probably why people like Dreger and Friedman are currently saying they've doubts a trade will occur. A team loaded with kids can't afford to be viewed as an organization that can be pushed around by outsiders like Overhardt.

Dreger and Friedman are reporting on what they are hearing.

They are hearing what Winnipeg wants them to hear.

The Jets are negotiating through the media.

Figuring that out is not that hard. If it leaks out that they will take the best offer come end of November, Trouba has won and knows he will be moved, game over.

However, Chevy, by leaking out that he will only consider moving Trouba for a Kings Ransom and he will let him sit for the year, allows him to get the best return possible come the end of November.

Trouba saw how long it took Chevy to trade Evander and is probably not willing to wait the same three years. Taking that hard line is great, until it isn't and comes back to bite you. Have you ever considered that if Kane was moved earlier, maybe for a slightly lesser return, that Trouba would already be signed and playing because he had a pretty good feeling that he would be moved in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[haveandare]

He didn't specifically say that. He stated why would a team trade a signed equal level LHD for a unsigned RHD like Trouba.

Very different point then you posted here. He's stating a valid point that many jets fans have acknowledged in the past. Chevy's demand is a tough one to meet.....but I suspect he knew this when he stated it. Sending Trouba a clear message.

I've said just that repeatedly and was told I was wrong and basing that opinion on nothing, etc etc etc.

I've also then stated that sitting him out a year will only exacerbate the issue of it not making sense for any other team to trade top assets for him.

 

[Shepard]

No clue, I just found it interesting a last place team burns one year of his ELC. Less then 30 days we will find out how this ends.

He's in the NHL because he belongs here, gives us a better chance to win than anyone that we have that could take his spot, and he has nothing to gain from playing in juniors. Trouba has nothing to do with it.

 

[cobra427]

Or, your read on the situation is incorrect.

Dreger and Friedman work for national networks based out of Toronto. Not sure why they would be shilling for Cheveldayoff; that is just a silly premise and is clearly simply a straw you are clutching at to back up your assertion that he will be traded. People actually connected to covering the NHL are currently saying it doesn't look likely, but anonymous internet persona cobra427 puts it at 90%. OK.

Chevy isn't going to say what he is really thinking:

"We made Trouba an offer, he just doesn't want to play here. We might be able to force him to sign a 1 year deal but then he could be a cancer or play like Turris and then his value goes down, then we have to bench him or trade him right away. On a short deal, other teams will be leery of trading for him. With his agent, he might be willing to sit out a year. If he does that, his value could tank more and I have to go through the distraction and trade decision again next summer. In the mean time, I get zero value form him this year or any assets this year. I have to trade him for the best deal I can make by Decemebr 1st".

 

[CaptainChef]

Kane trade - We trade top 6 forward and a top 4 D for a top 6 forward (who we extended) and a top 4 D plus 2 first Rd picks (Armia & 1st Rd pick) and a very high 2rd pick that the organization was very high on.

Trouba - What most offers being posted is Trouba who is a top pairing D for misc pieces......which is not as desirable when one considers how strong our prospect pool is. We have good or decent players or prospects in all positions except D.....which were poor in. Most offers are giving as the main piece is a forward and sometimes add a minor D prospect. This is not ideal to the Jets, ideally the main piece should be a LHD player or prospect. No point adding a slight upgrade at forward, while creating a massive crater of a hole at D.

I suspect this is partly Chevy's POV. On a side note I found it interesting that the Coyotes have decided to keep Chychrun up past his nine games burning a year of his ELC when the are last in the NHL. Show casing him to Chevy maybe? Hmmm

If they are show-casing him, they are doing it in spades. Heard he has been amazing & he's being put in for 20+ mins per game. I'd be very happy to work out a deal around a guy like that, but I fear that ship has sailed.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Dreger and Friedman are reporting on what they are hearing.

They are hearing what Winnipeg wants them to hear.

The Jets are negotiating through the media.

Figuring that out is not that hard. If it leaks out that they will take the best offer come end of November, Trouba has won and knows he will be moved, game over.

However, Chevy, by leaking out that he will only consider moving Trouba for a Kings Ransom and he will let him sit for the year, allows him to get the best return possible come the end of November.

Trouba saw how long it took Chevy to trade Evander and is probably not willing to wait the same three years. Taking that hard line is great, until it isn't and comes back to bite you. Have you ever considered that if Kane was moved earlier, maybe for a slightly lesser return, that Trouba would already be signed and playing because he had a pretty good feeling that he would be moved in a reasonable amount of time.

You clearly know nothing about them as an organization. The counter to your assertion is that the Jets are basically the tightest franchise with information that exists. Friedman himself has stated that the Jets are saying nothing: "Several teams have tried to be creative but GM Kevin Cheveldayoff is not budging or talking. All he says is, “We will do what’s best for the Winnipeg Jets.” "

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-game-changing-move-seattles-nhl-bid/

Whenever he is asked about Trouba, all he ever essentially says is "no comment", move on.

Those reporters are more than likely to be getting their info from other teams. If that represents Winnipeg negotiating through the press in your world, then party on.

 

[CaptainChef]

Ugh, that would be a trade that'd haunt us for a while. We traded up in the draft after Chychrun and Fabbro get taken leaving us with Logan Stanley. If Chevy knew about Trouba's desire to leave, then we could have bid on Detroit's 16th OA pick as well with the cap space we'd have knowing Trouba was on his way out the door. Trading Trouba for him now would just rub salt in that wound when you think we could have had him anyways.

I'm quite sure Jets management had Chychrun rated below or very close to Stanley. Its a ugh alright, but hearing how high they were on Stanley, gotta think they were in that boat.

 

[WesMcCauley]

If they are show-casing him, they are doing it in spades. Heard he has been amazing & he's being put in for 20+ mins per game. I'd be very happy to work out a deal around a guy like that, but I fear that ship has sailed.

Ye he is already unreal and he is only 18.... 52,3cf%, 55,9% defensive sone starts, +2 rating(i know not that important), played well over 23 minutes against San Jose etc. He is legit! Very fun to watch aswell!

 

[aj8000]

Is this poster vetted by the mods?

Dreger actually reported this, no vetting required

 

[WesMcCauley]

I'm quite sure Jets management had Chychrun rated below or very close to Stanley. Its a ugh alright, but hearing how high they were on Stanley, gotta think they were in that boat.

I was extremely surprised Chychrun was available at the 16th pick... Would never think he would be available after the 10th pick! Im obviously no professional scout but i was very surprised!

 

[lomiller1]

Players dont usually demand a trade/wount sign with the team that has their rights.

Multiple players with the same agent as Trouba have done it. It’s something that seems like one of his standard formulas.

If he doesnt wanna play and Winnipig and has sad he will never sign with them again,

I’m sure he is sad. :p

wouldnt be in the best interest of everyone to just get this done?

If there were something offered that was in the Jets best interest, it would be done already.

Pretty sure they would get a great return, might just have to take LH that is a little younger and as good and get a solid add to that.

The Jets needs are pretty specific. They have a lot of talented, young Forwards and Goaltenders at all levels of development in their organization. In fact they have more than they can play. They don’t need second pairing D and it’s not in their interest to trade Trouba for a bottom pair D.

What they need is a top pairing LHD who fits their age profile, so basically the LHD version of Trouba. Even if they are good players anything else is basically redundant and trading Trouba for such assets isn’t in the teams best interest.

if Trouba isnt going to sign with Jets

At this time his choice is to either sign or not play in the NHL. If he’s not willing to play outside the US his choices are to sign or give up pro hockey. Nothing in the limited details we have of why he doesn’t want to play in Canada suggest he’s be willing to go to this extreme.

why dont just get it out of the way and move on.

Because there isn’t anything on the table that is in the Jets best interests.

Worked pretty well with the Evander Kane trade.

Kane signed even though he’d asked for a trade and had to wait until the right trade came along. There is no reason to alter the formula from the Jets side.