Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VI

[Gump Hasek]

And your record certainly indicates that as well.

(Que the 4 rookies, development year response)

That response is the appropriate one. Not all teams are reliant upon an aging goalie. As an aside, what exactly is Lundqvist the King of anyway? He hasn't won any Stanley Cups.

 

[WesMcCauley]

That's my point, depending on the return......some here are saying we're lucky to get anything or super low value back......so sitting him out holds more value to us if that's true.

I dont think anyone think or believe that, im pretty sure you dont think that either. Fun to discuss with you though! You have very reasonable and fair opinions imo

 

[Savant]

That response is the appropriate one. Not all teams are reliant upon an aging goalie. As an aside, what exactly is Lundqvist the King of anyway? He hasn't won any Stanley Cups.

Ask the media. Henrik didn't give himself that nickname. That being said he is a first ballot hall of famer, and not many can match his resume.

 

[Hunter368]

I dont think anyone think or believe that, im pretty sure you dont think that either. Fun to discuss with you though! You have very reasonable and fair opinions imo

Many of the offers to date have offered us value that's not wildly off base (ie 4 quarters instead of a dollar bill)......but virtually all have been very poor fit. There are exceptions, I love one well known Habs fan who was annoyed at me when I declined his offer of Emilin & DD......thought I was being unreasonable declining it.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Someone please wake me up when this is over.

 

[Hunter368]

Someone please wake me up when this is over.

Ive been saying the same thing for weeks......nothing will happen until the 11th hour when both sides are feeling increased pressure especially Trouba.

 

[nyr__1994]

I've stated many times, everything up till now has just been waiting game, posturing, making Trouba wait, scouting out early deals, etc. Serious/final/best offers deals won't made until the last two weeks of nov.

I don't even watch for trade, b/c nothing will happen until the 11th hour if anything happens.

I agree with you 100% on the bolded. That is why you can't take anything reported in the media as fact at this point. It is all smoke and mirrors.

I think that the most likely, and best for all parties outcome is Trouba will be traded at the Dec 1st deadline for the best return that Chevy can get. Everything that leaks out before then is simply him posturing and angling to get the best possible return.

He is playing poker with a very good hand, and now just has to make the correct moves to maximize his return and hope the teams he is playing against don't catch their card on the river.

 

[heretik27]

I get your point, I just think it is incredibly short-sighted.

Just like running ANY business (and lets be clear, hockey like any sport is a business) management should be signaling to the employees that their needs matter.

To be very specific: "Chevy isn't forcing him to sit out; that would be Trouba's choice if it happens. Oh well, life moves on." This is not the correct attitude to be portraying at all. To use a real life example (since it recently occurred) - if you are Jimmy Vesey why on Earth would you ever consider to play for this type of management?

Accommodating Trouba is a hard choice since you like the player and don't want to or even technically need to trade him but it is the smart choice in the long term. Being a "cold" Organization is not a good thing either. Really look at the potential outcomes here:

1) Trouba sits out as Chevy continues to strong arm him - this is not good for anyone
2) Trouba signs a contract till he can be an RFA - now you have a disgruntled player, who can potentially cause rifts in the locker room and a player who does not support his own management.
3) Trouba is traded for a reasonable price.

Outcome 3 should be the goal - which is why I would love to see what the talks have been for. Are the other GMs not budging since there is no leverage on Chevy's part? Is Chevy being overly greedy?

I would hope it is the former because if an 80/85c deal is/was on the table - it should have been taken, get some quality value and move on.

As an aside I personally do not subscribe to the "we need to set a principle here" - seems very rigid for this particular scenario (it would be much more applicable to the Drouin situation). I know it is crazy but maybe Laine or Elhers actually WANTS to play in WPG and will do so regardless of the Trouba outcome?

Again - build a winning culture that players want to be a part of on their own accords.

Outcome 3 is where the major disparity is. What is a reasonable price, and to whom? Obviously opposing teams want Trouba and will only pay what's necessary to get him, but if you turn around and set the bar low then instead of the Jets getting anything of worth you get nothing of need and lose a very valuable piece of your hockey club. How does that benefit us? Winnipeg is known for having hockey loving fans, but this city is not appealing to most players. Letting Trouba be the example that Winnipeg won't be bullied by agents for young talented players is a fair price to pay to hopefully deter such actions in the future. Otherwise, what's to stop Ehlers, Morrissey, Connor, and Laine from holding out if they don't like the direction their career may be headed? For a small market team, we can't allow ourselves to be bullied by agents. It wouldn't stop there, other GM's would bend us over like Benning every time we find ourselves in a situation.

Simply put, trading him at a diminished value to get rid of him so he's happy does not help our team now, or in the future. The return will be mediocre, and it won't change the perception of playing in Winnipeg for the better regardless so you might as well get as much as you can when trading him or let him sit. It's about what's best for our team, not the Trouba brand, the Trouba player, or his girlfriend. If it works out for him too, then everyone's happy. Otherwise, he's the one being unreasonable (Overhardt refusing to look at deals) and he can deal with the consequences of holding out.

 

[wintersej]

I still think Chevy would have gotten the best return if he had made the move back before the draft.

 

[nyr__1994]

That response is the appropriate one. Not all teams are reliant upon an aging goalie. As an aside, what exactly is Lundqvist the King of anyway? He hasn't won any Stanley Cups.

Believe it or not The King's numbers have been fairly pedestrian this year and the NYR record is more in spite of Hank than because of Hank. All while playing 3 rookies and having an average age that is only a half a year older than the development year Jets.

 

[aufheben]

That response is the appropriate one. Not all teams are reliant upon an aging goalie. As an aside, what exactly is Lundqvist the King of anyway? He hasn't won any Stanley Cups.

You know it's not literal right? Like Mark Messier is not actually a moose.

 

[Stej]

Trouba wants a trade. The Jets value him highly and don't want to take a huge loss on a trade. Trouba has hurt his own value by publicly requesting a trade and then allegedly limiting the list of teams with which the Jets can negotiate said trade. The Jets are reportedly willing to offer him $5.5m x 6 years, which is a more than fair offer, and Trouba's camp refuses to even discuss the terms of a deal. So he sits. Completely of his own doing.

I'm not sure why people feel bad for him. He is free to refuse to play by the terms of the CBA and the Jets are free to let him rot. All's fair... except to the fan's of teams that want to acquire him for a bargain.

Some say Chevy's an ******* and hurting the reputation of the franchise. I say he's doing what he can to protect his franchise's rights under the CBA, both in this case and for the future. The Jets are not a free agent destination. If every young star demands to leave the team after their ELC, whilst also dictating the terms of the deal, the Jets won't be around much longer so I say dig in, Chevy.

 

[supersonic jet]

I get your point, I just think it is incredibly short-sighted.

Just like running ANY business (and lets be clear, hockey like any sport is a business) management should be signaling to the employees that their needs matter.

To be very specific: "Chevy isn't forcing him to sit out; that would be Trouba's choice if it happens. Oh well, life moves on." This is not the correct attitude to be portraying at all. To use a real life example (since it recently occurred) - if you are Jimmy Vesey why on Earth would you ever consider to play for this type of management?

Accommodating Trouba is a hard choice since you like the player and don't want to or even technically need to trade him but it is the smart choice in the long term. Being a "cold" Organization is not a good thing either. Really look at the potential outcomes here:

1) Trouba sits out as Chevy continues to strong arm him - this is not good for anyone
2) Trouba signs a contract till he can be an RFA - now you have a disgruntled player, who can potentially cause rifts in the locker room and a player who does not support his own management.
3) Trouba is traded for a reasonable price.

Outcome 3 should be the goal - which is why I would love to see what the talks have been for. Are the other GMs not budging since there is no leverage on Chevy's part? Is Chevy being overly greedy?

I would hope it is the former because if an 80/85c deal is/was on the table - it should have been taken, get some quality value and move on.

As an aside I personally do not subscribe to the "we need to set a principle here" - seems very rigid for this particular scenario (it would be much more applicable to the Drouin situation). I know it is crazy but maybe Laine or Elhers actually WANTS to play in WPG and will do so regardless of the Trouba outcome?

Again - build a winning culture that players want to be a part of on their own accords.

College player drafted by Jets who does not care where he plays looks at Trouba situation and sees Jets were willing to pay above market value will see that he will be taken care of financially.

Team will not allow a player to hurt teams future but will try to accommodate player but not at the detriment of all the other players who have a small time line to win the cup.

I am onboard with that type of organization.

 

[cobra427]

Outcome 3 is where the major disparity is. What is a reasonable price, and to whom? Obviously opposing teams want Trouba and will only pay what's necessary to get him, but if you turn around and set the bar low then instead of the Jets getting anything of worth you get nothing of need and lose a very valuable piece of your hockey club. How does that benefit us? Winnipeg is known for having hockey loving fans, but this city is not appealing to most players. Letting Trouba be the example that Winnipeg won't be bullied by agents for young talented players is a fair price to pay to hopefully deter such actions in the future. Otherwise, what's to stop Ehlers, Morrissey, Connor, and Laine from holding out if they don't like the direction their career may be headed? For a small market team, we can't allow ourselves to be bullied by agents. It wouldn't stop there, other GM's would bend us over like Benning every time we find ourselves in a situation.

Simply put, trading him at a diminished value to get rid of him so he's happy does not help our team now, or in the future. The return will be mediocre, and it won't change the perception of playing in Winnipeg for the better regardless so you might as well get as much as you can when trading him or let him sit. It's about what's best for our team, not the Trouba brand, the Trouba player, or his girlfriend. If it works out for him too, then everyone's happy. Otherwise, he's the one being unreasonable (Overhardt refusing to look at deals) and he can deal with the consequences of holding out.

Chevy has to be at the point where he knows he has to trade Trouba. If he is at that point and has seen offers the last few months, he has a good idea of market value. Somebody will pay a good price for a 22 year old potential top pairing D, might be there already. Whatever the return, it is market value, not some percentage of market. Chevy might be swallowing hard a little at this point because I suspect their are less buyers than their would have been around the draft. Any offers then do not matter now, market value today has likely changed and is less, but it is what it is. This has the likely potential to get worse for the Jets if Trouba does not get traded by December 1st.

 

[cneely]

Believe it or not The King's numbers have been fairly pedestrian this year and the NYR record is more in spite of Hank than because of Hank. All while playing 3 rookies and having an average age that is only a half a year older than the development year Jets.

the Rangers are 2 years older than the Jets on average (or rather 1.9 to be exact):

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2014/10/2014-15-nhl-teams-by-height-weight-and.html

A pretty significant gap really as the Rangers are the third oldest team and the Jets are the 4th youngest.

Oops, just noticed the date on that. Looking for more recent numbers

Here's 16 / 17.

Seems you're absolutely right. Surprising to me.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2014/10/2014-15-nhl-teams-by-height-weight-and.html

apologies. As you were, lol.

 

[Stej]

I get your point, I just think it is incredibly short-sighted.

Just like running ANY business (and lets be clear, hockey like any sport is a business) management should be signaling to the employees that their needs matter.

To be very specific: "Chevy isn't forcing him to sit out; that would be Trouba's choice if it happens. Oh well, life moves on." This is not the correct attitude to be portraying at all. To use a real life example (since it recently occurred) - if you are Jimmy Vesey why on Earth would you ever consider to play for this type of management?

Accommodating Trouba is a hard choice since you like the player and don't want to or even technically need to trade him but it is the smart choice in the long term. Being a "cold" Organization is not a good thing either. Really look at the potential outcomes here:

1) Trouba sits out as Chevy continues to strong arm him - this is not good for anyone
2) Trouba signs a contract till he can be an RFA - now you have a disgruntled player, who can potentially cause rifts in the locker room and a player who does not support his own management.
3) Trouba is traded for a reasonable price.

Outcome 3 should be the goal - which is why I would love to see what the talks have been for. Are the other GMs not budging since there is no leverage on Chevy's part? Is Chevy being overly greedy?

I would hope it is the former because if an 80/85c deal is/was on the table - it should have been taken, get some quality value and move on.

As an aside I personally do not subscribe to the "we need to set a principle here" - seems very rigid for this particular scenario (it would be much more applicable to the Drouin situation). I know it is crazy but maybe Laine or Elhers actually WANTS to play in WPG and will do so regardless of the Trouba outcome?

Again - build a winning culture that players want to be a part of on their own accords.

What does trading Trouba have to do with creating a winning culture and a team atmosphere that players want to be part of? I would think older players like Wheeler and Buff would be disappointed if Chevy pissed away all his good, young assets just to make them happy, to the detriment of the Jets. What kind of culture does that create?

As Chevy keeps saying, he'll do what's best for the Jets. And that includes all the current players...

 

[heretik27]

Chevy has to be at the point where he knows he has to trade Trouba. If he is at that point and has seen offers the last few months, he has a good idea of market value. Somebody will pay a good price for a 22 year old potential top pairing D, might be there already. Whatever the return, it is market value, not some percentage of market. Chevy might be swallowing hard a little at this point because I suspect their are less buyers than their would have been around the draft. Any offers then do not matter now, market value today has likely changed and is less, but it is what it is. This has the likely potential to get worse for the Jets if Trouba does not get traded by December 1st.

Only Chevy truly knows what those returns are. I'm sure if he felt they would benefit us a deal would have been made already. Part of the problem is Trouba's agent refuses to sign a contract before being traded which obviously puts Chevy in a tough position because Trouba's contract value isn't set in stone yet and would have to be negotiated after acquiring his rights. You see why this isn't a very simplistic situation?

 

[Hunter368]

I agree with you 100% on the bolded. That is why you can't take anything reported in the media as fact at this point. It is all smoke and mirrors.

I think that the most likely, and best for all parties outcome is Trouba will be traded at the Dec 1st deadline for the best return that Chevy can get. Everything that leaks out before then is simply him posturing and angling to get the best possible return.

He is playing poker with a very good hand, and now just has to make the correct moves to maximize his return and hope the teams he is playing against don't catch their card on the river.

Agreed. I'll add that if the best return isn't good enough to do, then sitting him out also holds value for the team and is a viable option as a plan B.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Outcome 3 is where the major disparity is. What is a reasonable price, and to whom? Obviously opposing teams want Trouba and will only pay what's necessary to get him, but if you turn around and set the bar low then instead of the Jets getting anything of worth you get nothing of need and lose a very valuable piece of your hockey club. How does that benefit us? Winnipeg is known for having hockey loving fans, but this city is not appealing to most players. Letting Trouba be the example that Winnipeg won't be bullied by agents for young talented players is a fair price to pay to hopefully deter such actions in the future. Otherwise, what's to stop Ehlers, Morrissey, Connor, and Laine from holding out if they don't like the direction their career may be headed? For a small market team, we can't allow ourselves to be bullied by agents. It wouldn't stop there, other GM's would bend us over like Benning every time we find ourselves in a situation.

Simply put, trading him at a diminished value to get rid of him so he's happy does not help our team now, or in the future. The return will be mediocre, and it won't change the perception of playing in Winnipeg for the better regardless so you might as well get as much as you can when trading him or let him sit. It's about what's best for our team, not the Trouba brand, the Trouba player, or his girlfriend. If it works out for him too, then everyone's happy. Otherwise, he's the one being unreasonable (Overhardt refusing to look at deals) and he can deal with the consequences of holding out.

I think you are making this a bigger problem than it is. Evander Kane is crazy and getting rid of him was a great thing for you. He has already proven to be a "problem" in Buffalo aswell. Trouba who knows... It rarely happens,99% of the players are more than happy with staying with their team until they are ufa´s. Hamonic wanted to go to Canada because some personal stuff. How about making a deal around Trouba for Hamonic+? Would hate to see Trouba go to the Islanders though...

I also dont think its a city thats unappealing either. Great fans even though you might have the most fans but the fans you have are great fans! So you have snow in the winter, i get its a negative for some players but whatever, im from Scandinavia and tomorrow the forecast projects 50cm snow...haha

 

[lomiller1]

Dreger and Friedman are reporting on what they are hearing.

They are hearing what Winnipeg wants them to hear.

The Jets are negotiating through the media.

Nope. Dreger and McKenzie have both clearly said that this is what OTHER NHL GM’s are telling them and that the Jets refuse to say anything. Basically both TO and EDM tried to acquire Trouba but were told “they are not a fit†by his agent and this eventually leaked out though those organizations

 

[Whileee]

And your record certainly indicates that as well.

(Que the 4 rookies, development year response)

It's a development year. They have 5 rookies and 3-4 sophomores in the line-up tonight.

 

[lomiller1]

I get everything you are saying but i think you are forgetting one important thing! Every game Jets play without Trouba, you play without a top pairing RD. You are talking about it as a loss for Trouba only, its not. Its a huge loss for Jets not having Trouba in the team and having him sit out a year is horrible for his development!

While this is true, a top pair D is exactly the spot the Jets are looking to get back. If that's not what they get in return they still don't have the top pairing D they need. Not having Trouba is a problem for the Jets. Not having JT Miller, for example, isn't.

 

[CaptainChef]

I doubt it, after the Turris contract issues with Overhardt, why would they take another problem child.

Its not so much that Trouba is a problem child, its that Overcooked is a real problem agent that no GM wants to have to deal with anymore.

 

[CaptainChef]

Is it worth trading him to get anything? Depends

Let's play a hypothetical game. Let's say Trouba's trade value in late Nov is 90%, I could see Chevy saying maybe we trade him to get help right now.

But let's say his value has slipped to 50-75% (as per some posters here have stated directly or via the horrible offers they've made), that type of return doesn't help us in anyway. Example: Getting a 3rd line forward and/or bottom pairing D means nothing to us when we have loads of them already. Then the value of sitting him out entire year holds more value to the team. Sets the bar for all future RFA or players thinking they can force management to trade them.

I think what you fail to address in this scenario is that his value could be as high as ever (perhaps even highest) at the draft. That's when teams have better plans on how they needs to address weaknesses, probably have more cap space, and are most prepared to do whats needed to improve their team.

 

[Trxjw]

You know it's not literal right? Like Mark Messier is not actually a moose.

It is literal, actually. His armies are currently fighting King James here in western PA over control of the Marcellus Shale. Just being overshadowed in the media because of the election race.