Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VI

[cneely]

I'm sure this has been offered up before, so apologies if it's been here a million times, but how do Jets fans feel about Olli Maatta as the main piece in a Trouba trade?

Both players the same age, both had tons of early success with high upside, followed by some struggles. Maatta is signed long term at just over 4MM and is a left shot LD. Seems like a good fit and value seems reasonably fair.

I am not sold on moving Maatta as a Pens fan, but have always liked Trouba and think he might be a better long term fit for the Pens up tempo system where great skating D are almost a must.

What makes you think Trouba has struggled?

Maata seems to fit the bill on what the Jets are looking for, but his injury / illness history may be an issue. I haven't watched many Pens games, how has he looked this year?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Did Trouba sign yet? No? Okay, I'll check back tomorrow.

Still has 4 more weeks left, So that he can play this season. I know it's not that much time left.

 

[Gotaf7]

Chevy: "You want out Jacob, sign with _________ for two years and 3.0 million per year and I'll move you there today."

Nailed it! Chevy is not going to let Trouba go anywhere without his name on a Winnipeg Jet contract, once he signs a contract all the value that the mouth breathers keep claiming is lost will be found. 4-6 yrs. @ 5mil makes him highly desirable to a lot of teams.

 

[Riptide]

Every single advanced statistic has him as a 1 or 2 Dman and that's been the case since his 20 year old season

Can you provide some statistics that indicate he's not a top pairing quality defender? This should be entertaining.

Great argument. But usually if someone is going to post something as absurd as that they're at least willing to back it up rather than just "some stats".

I guess one has to ask the question and then provide the answer too around here?

The Jets have one 1D (Byfuglien), that's it.

Exactly. Trouba is a lot like Myers. A very good top 3 D, but not close to being a #1 (at least not yet).

 

[Riptide]

I'd want him dealt before the draft. Why waste a expansion slot on him? I'd rather go 7/3/1 than the 4/4/1 Trouba route. If he's not traded before the expansion draft, then it's a fail IMO.

Do you really think that he'll be traded for a package vs another young top 4D?

 

[haveandare]

I'm still waiting for you to provide proof that a players' value actually drops. The last time you were asked for evidence your basic reply was "because I said so, there is no real proof".

As others have mentioned the only real situation we have had like this was Peca and his value didn't suffer at all. Try again when you have more than "I want it to be this way, so it is"

Neither of us can prove our points definitively because the sample size of players sitting out in recent decades is about 1. I'd argue that the very fact that the sample size is so small suggests that sitting players for a year is a bad idea.

Further, I'd echo the idea someone else posted a few pages back: Any team trading for Trouba is doing so on the expectation that he will be as good as he has been, but also on the hope that he'll be better. Sitting out a year of high level hockey at 22 will likely diminish other teams' confidence in him continuing to develop, as you can't develop without playing.

Lastly, as I said before, a player's value is partially determined by the confidence with which a team acquiring them can expect a certain level of play. Players with consistent greatness fetch more than players who are great now and then. When someone hasn't played in a year, especially when they should have still been developing, it casts some amount of doubt on what you can expect from them.

What suggests that you're right and his value won't drop at all if he misses a year? Peca, fifteen years ago, which I addressed in my first paragraph? Anything else?

 

[Hunter368]

Has there been any trade offers even made this week in this thread?

I guess some are so bored they create things in their minds to post that certainly aren't offers. Haha

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I guess the continued reluctance to meet the ask on this board is running parrelel with the reluctance to meet the ask in real life. How many years will Winnipeg let trouba rot before lowering the ask. If the ask never comes than Winnipeg and trouba are worse off right? Sometimes it's better to exchange a dollar for 80 cents than it is to crumple up that dollar and throw it away

Or you keep the dollar in your pocket until you find something better to spend it on.
If Trouba, his family or his agent let him sit out more than a year then I don't know what to say.

 

[Riptide]

Neither of us can prove our points definitively because the sample size of players sitting out in recent decades is about 1. I'd argue that the very fact that the sample size is so small suggests that sitting players for a year is a bad idea.

What suggests that you're right and his value won't drop at all if he misses a year? Peca, fifteen years ago, which I addressed in my first paragraph? Anything else?

Almost no one sits for a year solely because the time a player can earn a wage is limited. The top players in the world have roughly 15-18 years at the NHL level to max out their income. Trouba sitting right now (using TSN's numbers based on a 5.5m salary) has already lost 660k (roughly 30k a day). Sure if he signed a long term contract (or even a multi year contract) he can negate some of that (low salary this year, high salary next year), but for the most part that's money that he will never ever see again.

Now perhaps he thinks he can make that up by playing in the top 4 on the right side, and thus maximize his personal growth (which should translate into better contracts). And while that isn't entirely flawed thinking, I think he's going about it entirely the wrong way. I have no issues with him asking (or even demanding) for a trade. As another poster above mentioned, the same locations do not always work for everyone. But he'd be a lot better off signing a 1 yr deal, playing while waiting for Chevy to move him. As long as it's clear to Chevy that he wants to be moved, it shouldn't be that hard and you'd hope that he'd honor his request.

 

[haveandare]

Or you keep the dollar in your pocket until you find something better to spend it on.
If Trouba, his family or his agent let him sit out more than a year then I don't know what to say.

If a team that's really struggling but is "developing" lets Trouba sit a year instead of getting value for him and improving the team I don't know what to say except get a new GM.

 

[haveandare]

Almost no one sits for a year solely because the time a player can earn a wage is limited. The top players in the world have roughly 15-18 years at the NHL level to max out their income. Trouba sitting right now (using TSN's numbers based on a 5.5m salary) has already lost 660k (roughly 30k a day). Sure if he signed a long term contract (or even a multi year contract) he can negate some of that (low salary this year, high salary next year), but for the most part that's money that he will never ever see again.

Now perhaps he thinks he can make that up by playing in the top 4 on the right side, and thus maximize his personal growth (which should translate into better contracts). And while that isn't entirely flawed thinking, I think he's going about it entirely the wrong way. I have no issues with him asking (or even demanding) for a trade. As another poster above mentioned, the same locations do not always work for everyone. But he'd be a lot better off signing a 1 yr deal, playing while waiting for Chevy to move him. As long as it's clear to Chevy that he wants to be moved, it shouldn't be that hard and you'd hope that he'd honor his request.

It's also entirely possible that no one sits for a year because GMs would rather get guaranteed value today for someone who isn't going to come back and play for them rather than get possible value a year from now.

After they took so long to move Kane who openly wanted out, I wouldn't blame Trouba for not agreeing with your last point. In Chevy's mind, 3-4 years down the road is short term.

 

[JetsHomer]

Great argument. But usually if someone is going to post something as absurd as that they're at least willing to back it up rather than just "some stats".

I guess one has to ask the question and then provide the answer too around here?



Exactly. Trouba is a lot like Myers. A very good top 3 D, but not close to being a #1 (at least not yet).

Ok. Trouba ranks as a top pairing guy by literally every metric I check, GAR, pureGAR, expected goals, Corsi, relCorsi, TOI etc.

Now that that is settled, can you please provide some numbers that indicate Trouba isn't a top pairing quality Dman?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

His value is lower because he's a problem for WPG and everyone knows it. Plus any team that trades for him is going to have to sign him and he's going to have to essentially start high level training and playing in November rather than over the summer. Someone who can step in today with a contract already done and a normal training camp and start to the season under their belt is worth more than the same exact player who still needs to be signed and hasn't been playing or practicing with NHLers.

Peca was traded fifteen years ago . Whatever happened then shouldn't be the point as much as the fact that have to reach back a decade and half to find an example of a player sitting out a whole year. There's a reason for that - sitting valuable players for a whole year is a horrible idea.

Which is why Trouba will almost certainly sign before Dec-1st. The easiest way to facilitate a trade is to sign and start playing.

 

[MikeRahl]

If anyone one needs another reminder as to why the Jets are looking for Defensemen and not Forwards...

Against the Captials they put up 45 shots (I believe during the telecast they said their average was 25 shots against per game).

Byflugien played over 30 minutes. Chairot and Melchiori both logged SH time and those 2 along with Postma all played at least 13 minutes.

 

[81Leafs50]

Trouba wants out. Winnipeg wants young talented D-men. Leafs need a righty shot with the same skill level of Reilly to play with Reilly.

SO...........


Leafs:
Trouba

Winnipeg:
Gardiner
Rinat Valiev
SJ 2017 2nd rounder

SEEMS TOTALLY FAIR TO ME!

 

[fmrdh]

Trouba wants out. Winnipeg wants young talented D-men. Leafs need a righty shot with the same skill level of Reilly to play with Reilly.

SO...........


Leafs:
Trouba

Winnipeg:
Gardiner
Rinat Valiev
SJ 2017 2nd rounder

SEEMS TOTALLY FAIR TO ME!

I don't see him playing with any team in Canada

 

[81Leafs50]

I don't see him playing with any team in Canada

He doesn't have a no trade clause. So really he will play where ever they move him to.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Trouba wants out. Winnipeg wants young talented D-men. Leafs need a righty shot with the same skill level of Reilly to play with Reilly.

SO...........


Leafs:
Trouba

Winnipeg:
Gardiner
Rinat Valiev
SJ 2017 2nd rounder

SEEMS TOTALLY FAIR TO ME!

According to Dreger and McKenzie Canada is a no go period for Trouba. And Dreger said that it would take Rielly for Trouba not Gardiner Rielly fits what Cheveldayoff is seeking not Gardiner.

 

[Maukkis]

He doesn't have a no trade clause. So really he will play where ever they move him to.

Trouba signs if he wants. If he doesn't want to sign with a team in Canada... which apparently is the case, that's Toronto out of the competition.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

He doesn't have a no trade clause. So really he will play where ever they move him to.

Wrong he's not under contract, And Trouba and Overhardt can stipulate in the contract that he wont play in Canada. Trouba can say that he will play for any East Coast American team and no Canada or West Coast teams he still has that right.

 

[Ducks in a row]

He doesn't have a no trade clause. So really he will play where ever they move him to.

He doesn't have to play for Toronto if they traded for him he could refuse to sign a new contract like he is with Winnipeg. Toronto can't force him to sign and play.

 

[Snowman]

Great argument. But usually if someone is going to post something as absurd as that they're at least willing to back it up rather than just "some stats".

I guess one has to ask the question and then provide the answer too around here?

Well, at least you were honest enough to come back here and admit that you made absurd assumptions with nothing to back them up. Not many posters will do that.

 

[81Leafs50]

Trouba signs if he wants. If he doesn't want to sign with a team in Canada... which apparently is the case, that's Toronto out of the competition.

Is he racist or just being discriminatory?

Trade his ass to Columbus and into obscurity. He's got the attitude of a loser, so Columbus fits.

 

[Maukkis]

Is he racist or just being discriminatory?

Trade his ass to Columbus and into obscurity. He's got the attitude of a loser, so Columbus fits.

I'm guessing he has a location in mind where he wants to be, for one reason or another, and is pushing for a trade to that place, and isn't accepting anything else. He could also accept X amount of teams, which all appear to be in the USA.

You could always ask his agent, get an answer, and then know that the reality is the polar opposite of what he said.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Is he racist or just being discriminatory?

Trade his ass to Columbus and into obscurity. He's got the attitude of a loser, so Columbus fits.

How's this being racist and discriminatory, By all accounts Shattenkirk doesn't want to play in Canada so is he being racist and discriminatory. Trouba has a right i saw on the Jets board where they said it could've to do with his Dad's lawsuit and his Dad not being aloud in Canada if this is true then it stands to reason why he would want to play in the States and not in Canada so his Dad can watch him play. He's pretty close to his family and maybe wants them to be able to see his games more.