Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
He's been working out at home in Detroit, I think he's been training around Ann Arbor i was reading. Not sure if he's still there now or not.
Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VI
- Thread starter Hurt
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He's been working out at home in Detroit, I think he's been training around Ann Arbor i was reading. Not sure if he's still there now or not.
lomiller1
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- Jan 13, 2015
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You are. In fact it’s more a case of you just making **** up.
What part of big, fast, incredible hands and a great defensive game “doesn’t fit today’s game�
Other than size and both being good skaters they are basically polar opposite of Armia
Drew Stafford is the opposite of an “energy†player. He’s an offensive guy who likes to slow down the game, hold onto the puck and look for offensive plays. He’s got great hands and can stickhandle in small spaces while he looks for plays to develop, but doesn’t play with a lot of pace.
Again a puzzling comparison. Connor is bigger, or at least taller for now, a lot faster, better with the puck at speed and has a much better shot. A better skill package doesn’t always translate into better production, but it’s way too early to be calling something like that, especially when Connor was so much more productive in his pre-NHL career.
Ehlers was as good at 19 as Miller at 23
They play different positions, play totally different styles and Scheifele is 2 years younger and already better even without taking position into account. A better comparison is would be that Kreider is a poor man’s Wheeler.
You don’t exactly need to twist it. Adding that “maybe he could be a good second liner†doesn’t change the insinuation that you think he may top out as a 3rd liner.
In a normal conversation asking if he’s the “the next Backes†says Backes is better for now. FYI Scheifele is a lot better than Backes, and was better than Toews last year.
Post 719
Speaks for itself...
Post 77
Given that Connor plays LW there are not too many ways to interpret this...
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Pretty sure this has absolutely nothing to do with his girlfriend and her Med School issues. More then his Dad's supposed legal issues and him not being aloud in Canada pretty sure that it has more to do with his personal family then his girlfriend.
I'm of the opinion that it has nothing to do with either one of those things, more about the climate and tax regime in Manitoba. I'm just reiterating the rumours I've heard.
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
For arguments' sake:
Spooner > Zuccarello (contract, age are the only tie-breakers as they are similar in stats)
Skjei = Carlo (edge to Carlo being 19 and Skjei being 22)
1st NYR < 1st BOS (Rangers are better)
Bruins, 19 and 24, 1.846 million.
Rangers, 22 and 29, 5.425 million.
So how is that 'easily' beating the Bruins offer? Seems to me the Jets take on a 4.5 million contract vs a 925k as well as him being half a decade older, an older defensive prospect and a later 1st?
I'm not saying the Jets want either trade but the Bruins one has the edge in contract status, age, 1st potential and overall value once the two are compared.
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Zucc put up 61 points last year. Spooner 49. That is quite the generous definition of similar.
Completely off topic, but Canadian Medical schools are actually much harder to get into than American ones because they're a lot cheaper and there aren't that many of them. I know a dual citizen American/Canadian who couldn't get into a single Canadian med school and got into multiple Ivy League level med schools in the states. And as someone else stated, a lot of Canadian med schools won't accept international students. Kind of a legitimate reason for Trouba to want to move, but I do wonder if University of Manitoba would make an exception for his girlfriend if it meant him staying with the Jets
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Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
Okay, so 12 points difference is worth that 3.5 million? Even if you wanted to say Zuccarello is better right now about to hit 30 why would that cap hit and 5 years age difference appeal to a team in the middle of a rebuild over a center who is younger and a RFA at the end?
I'd even turn the > to an = and the deal is still better from Boston given Carlo's age and the projected placement of the 1st round pick Hell, even if you convinced me that the prospects were equal and that Carlo will only be as good as Skjei is now in three years and that the Bruins are going to finish ahead of the Rangers making the Draft pick better for New York...
...if all of that occurred, how is that deal 'easily' better than the Bruins one? At best, this argument takes us to the deals being equal and then the age and cap hits are all more and older. I was simply arguing that this deal is in no way 'easily' better than the bruins one at all.
most likely miller over Zuc in the trade above... Miller signed for under 3 mill for 2 years then RFA. Spooner needs a contract after this year. Miller can play all 3 FWD positions. spooner is a center. looked poor at wing. Miller has progressed every year. Playing better then spooner now. spooner is a bit younger ( nevermind miller is a year younger). the first Rd picks will be within 7 of eachother. even with trouba doubt rangers win the cup this year. Carlo is younger then skjei. both will be top 4-d in this league for a long long time. I highly doubt boston deals carlo. They are weak on the left stronger on RD but who knows. They do have MvAvoy who i think personally will be the best D of his draft. I just can't see the B's dealing carlo. With graves almost there and McD and Staal signed I can see the Rangers dealing skjei. but I could be wrong
Zucc also averaged 3 mins more per game and is 5 years older. IMO they have similar value.
dude
this is a contract yr for spooner he's going to get a raise. Zucc is signed at 4.5 for the next 3
this is a contract yr for spooner he's going to get a raise. Zucc is signed at 4.5 for the next 3
Great stuff, and I hear you.
My take is however this -- and I could be wrong for sure -- I think you guys are overrating your current roster and farm. I just don't see a bunch of very valuable players worth protecting and I just don't see an overfull farm not counting the players already in the NHL. I saw Joel Armia the first time in 2009, I know who he is. I am not a very big fan. Ok player, but not a great fit in today's game IMO and I don't think he is the type who can like help make a line special on a contender. Shawn Mattias is in the same mold for me. Drew Stafford brings a lot of energy, but to be honest he also lacks a lot of things in his game. A 6'6 forward like Adam Lowry just don't do much for me given how the game is looking.
I really like Connor, but like to me is a bit of a poor man's Teevu Teravainen if you get what I mean. Or "poor man's" is a bad choice of words, more like in the same mold as TT. Will need some time. Probably will become a good player. But not a lock to become a good player, also a kid that really needs to be put in the same environment. Wheeler is getting older. Little has a ton of miles on his body.
When you claim that JT Miller only would be a marginal upgrade over what you got, I just don't think you are right. Right or wrong, go and check the Rangers board, JT Miller is NYR's Nikolaj Ehlers, just 3 years longer into his development path. JT has pwned a U18 WJC. Been very good on a team that won a U20 WJCs. He came in as an optimistic puck hog who skated eights around everyone before crashing into someone or something. Then got a few years of tough love and has shaped up his 2-way game, and now is starting to find that mix.
Right or wrong, go and check the Rangers board, Chris Kreider is NYR's Mark Schleife. And Kreider has been just sick this season.
And I never proposed that Winnipeg should trade Trouba for forwards, I did include Brady Skjei in my proposal.
Actually Gump, I have never made any kind of proposal with only forwards for Trouba. How about reading a posts before making personal attacks on a poster? That is apparently too much to ask for...
Sorry don't agree, think Jets also has holes up front.
Actually I never wrote any of the things you quoted, you took everything I said and twisted it. Why?
“Ehlers tops out as a 3rd liner†= I said, Ehlers will at least become a great 3rd lineer/good 2nd liner, how much potential does he have if he finds more of a scoring touch?
“Scheifele will never be as good Backes†= I said, is Scheifele the next Backes or the next Toews?
“Little is only a third line C†= I never commented on Little??
“Kyle Connor won’t be a top 9 forward†= Never said that, said that he hasn't been great so far, but its too early to pass judgement on him.
Like why do you make things up? Does it really make you feel that much better? Sorry if I offended you in any way, which I recon I must have done to cause this reaction...
Yeah I know about it, and Winnipeg isn't the only organization with a roster of NHL players and a farm. You should surf around some at that place, would give you a better perspective.
Just think you guys are overrating these kids a bit. Hope I am wrong, always liked Winnipeg!
Yeah, you are probably right. Since Trouba is holding out, its 3 in and 1 out from the current roster, but that is besides the point. Like I said, I do think someone will pay more than NYR is able to eventually. That offer is not great value for Winnipeg. But I do not however agree that it is a worthless joke of a return. I actually think its pretty decent. That is THREE very good young hockey players already established in the NHL and proven winners. Would really change the outlook of Winnipeg instantly. Can you imagine having Schleife AND Kreider on the same team? That would be pretty sick. Miller is very very good young hockey player. Skjei has just been sick so far this season. Many argue that he is NYR's 2nd best D right now.
Wow, I have never seen someone put together such an amazing post that points out exactly how clueless they are about the team they think they know! That's fantastic, thanks for the entertainment!
Trouba is a young second pairing D with 1st pairing potential. That means he has high value. But, since he is not signed, is holding out, and has publicly said he does not want to play for the Jets, and needs to be traded by December 1st, all of that hurts his trade value. Jets fans and Chevy can pretend the above does not hurt his value, but it does hurt his value. The timing of trading him now versus last summer hurts his value in that their are less buyers now.
Trouba's agent could be telling other clubs what Trouba would sign for and he could also be telling them Trouba will never sign with the Jets. If another GM believes it, he won't over pay.
Then he can sit.
IMO, he'll sit until Chevy receives what he believes to be a fair value offer. If that's next year, so be it. The Jets are not in win now mode.
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
Miller is a different story and should be an enticing offer for the comparison. If it was Miller,Skjei and a 1st then you'd think the Jets take that offer over the Boston one given that Miller is younger and fills a need in Winnipeg while Skjei is the LHD (correct?) they need over a RHD in Carlo.
The biggest difference in value is Carlo is Right Handed and Skjei is Left Handed. Ask any Jets fan which is a bigger need?
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
KingDeathMetal
Registered User
Spooner is not > Zucc on any planet.
Skjei > Carlo. Age doesn't matter when you're talking about 19 and 22, it's a wash. If anything edge to Skjei because he's a bit older, has more NHL experience and has shown himself capable of playing at a high level in the Top 4 both in regular season and playoffs (WPG wants a D who can step in and play right now). Also, Jets need a LD, which Skjei is, while Carlo is RD. Skjei's got elite speed, too. In terms of talent ceiling, Skjei tends to be the higher rated player, at least from what I gather.
If age and contract are your concern, then swap out Zucc for JT Miller in that deal, and it gets even better.
To me, it's a no-brainer, if that's what the Jets are looking for.
We're probably a few years away from that. Look how long Kane wanted a trade and how long it took for it to happen. Trading Trouba for sub-par value will NEVER help the Jets, now or in the future.
I agree, the housing analogy is a bad one. But you made it not me, so I don't know what you're getting at.
One of these situations is not like the other. Kane was still playing and because of that had to wait 3 years to get out. Trouba probably saw that and said I would rather give up a year than sit in Winnipeg for the next 3 years while Chevy sits on his ass..
Coach Parker
Stanley Cup Champion
1. How about planet age and contract? Planet RFA vs. UFA? The whopping 12 points don't make up for 4 years and 3.5 million / year.
2. 'Age doesn't matter when you're talking about 19 and 22, it's a wash'? That is a huge, huge difference. That is three years of an ELC contract on an ELC salary difference. That is controlling the most important development years of a defenseman in the NHL for almost league minimum.
I think we'd agree that the only way this deal is 'better' than the Bruins and not equal to (didn't address the Bruins 1st potentially being a lottery pick while the Rangers are set for another playoff run, which equates to potentially 10 spots in the draft) is if Zuccarello and his 29 year old 3.5 million dollar cap hit then UFA contract is replaced with Miller's. Then you have an argument like you suggested.
Certainly not 'easily' beating the Bruins offer when age, contract status, salary cap and draft position are taken into account.
Miller, LHD and 1st address more needs than Spooner, younger RHD, higher 1st for the Jets IMO.
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