Speculation: Trouba Contract Discussion Part II

[sully1410]

Wow, that's the angle you want take? Multi years Chevy couldn't find a trade? Come on now

Team comes first. GMs do what is best for the team before what is best for some whiney player.

 

[Whileee]

On 1290 this morning they were talking about how Trouba has been skating down south this summer with generic colored gear - no Jets gear whatsoever.

Don't know if there is anything to read into that but when I've gone to the Iceplex to watch the pros skate before training camp they always appear to wear some of their team gear (i.e. hemlet, pants, gloves...)

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting observation.

He's not under contract to the Jets, so doesn't really have any formal affiliation. It's different than a player who's actually under contract.

 

[Huffer]

I think Trouba('s agent) is fighting for over fair market value. IMO the market has been set, by many comparable D-men signing long term deals. I feel the Jets would be happy to pay out a similar contract, but Trouba is looking for more.

just a gut feeling.

Possibly.

My gut feeling is that the money is pretty much set (maybe haggling over minor $'s here or there).

I have a feeling that the players side is more worried about the next 5 years or so in terms of usage, partners, etc, and that's something that is either very hard, or next to impossible for the GM to make promises on in a negotiation IMO.

 

[SLAYER]

He's not under contract to the Jets, so doesn't really have any formal affiliation. It's different than a player who's actually under contract.

I'm not sure that a player without a contract can even represent a team? He will not be welcome at any team function or facility without a contract. I'm unsure why they made such a big deal about this.

 

[Bristo]

I think Trouba('s agent) is fighting for over fair market value. IMO the market has been set, by many comparable D-men signing long term deals. I feel the Jets would be happy to pay out a similar contract, but Trouba is looking for more.

just a gut feeling.

Just nit-picking here, but I really don't think it's fair to put this on Trouba so much as his agent. Overhardt is the one playing hardball, and TNSE isn't going to negotiate with terrorists. We know that Trouba isn't going to hold out, and the Jets know it - it's too much to make up financially once you start actually hurting your pay cheques.

In the end, yes, Trouba employs the jerk, but this is standard operating procedure with Overhardt. He's playing chicken with someone who knows the rules and that eventually Overhardt has to flinch or risk losing his client's actual money.

This was stressing me out earlier in the summer, but the more I think of it the more I'm convinced that this is going to get done, and long term. And I would guess Trouba will get a bit more money than we're expecting in order to get him long term, but in light of the Subban scenario (bridging and then being able to demand WAY too much money) I'm good with that.

 

[Bristo]

Possibly.

My gut feeling is that the money is pretty much set (maybe haggling over minor $'s here or there).

I have a feeling that the players side is more worried about the next 5 years or so in terms of usage, partners, etc, and that's something that is either very hard, or next to impossible for the GM to make promises on in a negotiation IMO.

Except for trading another player, which is horse crap.

 

[ffh]

Just nit-picking here, but I really don't think it's fair to put this on Trouba so much as his agent. Overhardt is the one playing hardball, and TNSE isn't going to negotiate with terrorists. We know that Trouba isn't going to hold out, and the Jets know it - it's too much to make up financially once you start actually hurting your pay cheques.

In the end, yes, Trouba employs the jerk, but this is standard operating procedure with Overhardt. He's playing chicken with someone who knows the rules and that eventually Overhardt has to flinch or risk losing his client's actual money.

This was stressing me out earlier in the summer, but the more I think of it the more I'm convinced that this is going to get done, and long term. And I would guess Trouba will get a bit more money than we're expecting in order to get him long term, but in light of the Subban scenario (bridging and then being able to demand WAY too much money) I'm good with that.

how do you know overhardt is playing hardball.

 

[sully1410]

how do you know overhardt is playing hardball.

Because it's Kurt Overhardt and the comparables have been set around the league with the exception of two other DMen. Also...

It's ****ing Kurt Overhardt.

 

[ffh]

Because it's Kurt Overhardt and the comparables have been set around the league with the exception of two other DMen. Also...

It's ****ing Kurt Overhardt.

if it was dec.6 I would agree 40 days before season starts not so much.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Rather than hardball , I think both sides are just playing the deadline game. It's fairly normal actually

 

[Huffer]

Except for trading another player, which is horse crap.

Not sure what you are saying, can you explain?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Rather than hardball , I think both sides are just playing the deadline game. It's fairly normal actually

I don't know that I would call it normal, but it's not exactly rare.

At this point both sides have made an offer. Either side could end this right now by accepting the last offer made by the other party. But there's not that much to gain. Right now they can go right up to the day before first regular season game without much harm (since Trouba has the WCH to get into shape).

 

[ps241]

I don't know that I would call it normal, but it's not exactly rare.

At this point both sides have made an offer. Either side could end this right now by accepting the last offer made by the other party. But there's not that much to gain. Right now they can go right up to the day before first regular season game without much harm (since Trouba has the WCH to get into shape).

October 12th it is Joe!

 

[Aavco Cup]

I don't know that I would call it normal, but it's not exactly rare.

At this point both sides have made an offer. Either side could end this right now by accepting the last offer made by the other party. But there's not that much to gain. Right now they can go right up to the day before first regular season game without much harm (since Trouba has the WCH to get into shape).

It gets real for Trouba when he starts missing paychecks. All he misses before then is training camp per diems. I doubt he gets an improved offer once the season starts. That's the real deadline from his point of view. The longer it goes past then the deadline game moves in the Jets favour.

 

[surixon]

It gets real for Trouba when he starts missing paychecks. All he misses before then is training camp per diems. I doubt he gets an improved offer once the season starts. That's the real deadline from his point of view. The longer it goes past then the deadline game moves in the Jets favour.

When do paychecks start? Is it the first time week in October or is it once the first game starts.

 

[Bristo]

Not sure what you are saying, can you explain?

Yeah, it wasn't very clear. If he's demanding more/better playing time, it means someone else is going to either play less (which is the coach's responsibility), or get traded (which would be the only input the GM could have which would guarantee anything for the player).

Which would be a low thing to do, using your contract negotiations to push someone else out. Push them out with your play, not your contract.

 

[Bristo]

how do you know overhardt is playing hardball.

I know nothing, all I have is the benefit of what we have learned by watching his other negotiations and enough sense to read between the lines.

 

[Huffer]

Yeah, it wasn't very clear. If he's demanding more/better playing time, it means someone else is going to either play less (which is the coach's responsibility), or get traded (which would be the only input the GM could have which would guarantee anything for the player).

Which would be a low thing to do, using your contract negotiations to push someone else out. Push them out with your play, not your contract.

Totally agree.

 

[Bristo]

Totally agree.

Great so what I'm getting at is that if these things (usage, playing time, etc) are the things holding up the negotiations, then Trouba/Overhardt are out of line.

 

[ffh]

I know nothing, all I have is the benefit of what we have learned by watching his other negotiations and enough sense to read between the lines.

he hasn't done or said anything unprofessional regarding trouba contract. I will hold of judgement till he does.

 

[Eyeseeing]

It is those kinds of things we can't speculate on here so if people know things(or think they know) we can't post it here.

Those things are big factor in these negotiations

Hey Joe ,
I said for ME it's a red flag.
I've been very careful to say I don't know nor does anyone.
It's an opinion board and that's my opinion only.
I'd like Trouba to stay IF he wants to be here.
He's a good player but not great ( yet) only time will sort that out

 

[Hunter368]

It's not difficult. Kane asks to be traded, then he tells Chevy he wants to stay or Chevy convinces him to give it more time. Kane agrees. Kane asks for a trade, then changes his mind again. I don't think it was a continuous 3+ year open ended request for a trade. I think it's more complex

You have a link from Kane or his agent confirming your statement? I've never heard that version before. I've only seen from Kane that he asked each summer to be traded. Everything else is speculation at best

 

[Hunter368]

Between finding a team that wants to take on that headache, and getting good value in return, yeah... I can totally see it taking years.

Don't buy that for a second

 

[Yukon Joe]

You have a link from Kane or his agent confirming your statement? I've never heard that version before. I've only seen from Kane that he asked each summer to be traded. Everything else is speculation at best

Of course it's speculation.

Personally, I speculate it went something like this:

Kane: I want to be traded
Chevy: We own your rights right now. I'll keep your request in mind, and if a trade comes up that makes sense for us I'll try to accommodate your request. But you should expect to be a member of this team for the foreseeable future.
Kane: But I really want to be traded because of X.
Chevy: That's nice. Is there anything else?

 

[Hunter368]

No evidence that playing with Stuart has altered the Jets' contract offers to him. For all we know, they'll give him a bump for playing so well with such a poor partner.

You seem to think that young players are entitled to being played in ways that maximize their individual value, even on their ELC. Scheifele was sent back to junior twice and then played on RW and on lower lines for his first few seasons. He didn't get to play with top-line players until Little went down with an injury. He didn't gripe, and nobody needs to feel sorry for him.

I like Trouba as a player, and I think he had an onerous task playing with Stuart. But I think you are going way overboard in supporting him and Kane against the supposed "nasty" Jets' leadership.

- - have zero evidence positive or negative what the Jets offered. The point was their usage over 3 of him would negatively impact his ability to negotiate his contract value (potentially).

- How do you know Mark or his agent didn't complain privately? We don't know, so let's not speculate.

- I'm supporting Trouba? I guess you missed my post where I stated I'm just playing Devils Advocate. But if I was Trouba I would be presenting all these facts, stating my desire/expectations moving forward and how the teams usage better not negatively impact this contract.