Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[norrisnick]

The contracts are irrelevant...

Irrelevant and yet too late. Brilliant...

 

[rangersblues]

Last thing we need is to draft another copp lmao

I do think there will be short term pain. The kids that are coming up will have to adjust and I cant see a big ufa signing coming up. Maybe yzerman sees it's pointless to finish 15th again and moves a few guys.

I think it's very possible to be a top 10 team this season. This team is not ready

Better to draft another Copp than sign him to an overpriced contract

 

[rangersblues]

sad thing is we needed every one of those guys to fill holes we couldn't realistically fill from within. The hope has to be that we continue to have kids step in over the next two years and we can make fewer but more significant moves.

Then we deal for Kaprizov.

Needed them for what? To finish higher in the standings so we miss out on high draft picks!

 

[stillwater]

This team is one Quinn Hughes, instead of Filip Zadina in the draft away from being in the consideration for contention right now.

Yzerman didn't make that decision.

 

[odin1981]

We're not building around Larkin.

I think what most fail to realize is by the time we compete for a cup (if they get their) he will be a Perron style veteran leader in the room. The wings will be relying on a prime age Seider/ Edvinsson/Raymond to do the heavy lifting. Provided that injuries don't derail him tremendously (Larkin) he should still be a capable 2nd line center.

I feel a lot of the board's patience is waning do to the fact that last year really looks like a outlier year at this point, and that many posters don't want to admit that. Detroit had for the first time in ages low injuries as far as man games lost for the year. Good development from Seider, and a breakout year from Raymond.

This year isn't over, but it looks like Raymond has a little bit of a regression now that teams are keying on him in matchups. Without him being on Larkins line (due to a center depth issue) he isn't able to drive his own line yet. The defensive depth is hurt by no one outside of Al Jo (hopefully) and their first pairing having even decent dependability.

Age took another bite out of Petry, Holl, Chairot, Copp, and Compher. So there is a gap in the roster, hopefully Kasper/Danielson can fill it but for the next 1-2 year's center depth and defensive depth will be hurting as we look forward to the second wave of Yzerman draft picks to breakthrough into the roster.

2-3 years forward goalie looks good due to continued growth from Cossa/Augustine. But the biggest hamstring that has effected the team appears to be a lackluster pro scouting department in regards to UFA mishaps. ASP should see some time at least in 1-2 year's from the way he appears to be progressing.

Holland/Wright hurt the wings though at this point with the Zadina and Rasmussen miscue's. And it appears the Wings haven't found a outlier in the early (3 years or so of initial Stevie picks from the 2nd to 4th rounds lets say) to offset that.

 

[Winger98]

Needed them for what? To finish higher in the standings so we miss out on high draft picks!

to not be forced to rush kids into the league before they are ready and grow an ever worse culture of losing. This team moving up the standings the past three years have not been on the backs of Copp, Compher, and Chiarot. our days of a bottom 3 team were over the moment Seider and Raymond made the jump and lived up to the hype.

 

[FMichael]

Needed them for what? To finish higher in the standings so we miss out on high draft picks!

Please remind us how the 'Lottery Gods' look down upon us so favorably...

I think what most fail to realize is by the time we compete for a cup (if they get their) he will be a Perron style veteran leader in the room. The wings will be relying on a prime age Seider/ Edvinsson/Raymond to do the heavy lifting. Provided that injuries don't derail him tremendously (Larkin) he should still be a capable 2nd line center.

I feel a lot of the board's patience is waning do to the fact that last year really looks like a outlier year at this point, and that many posters don't want to admit that. Detroit had for the first time in ages low injuries as far as man games lost for the year. Good development from Seider, and a breakout year from Raymond.

This year isn't over, but it looks like Raymond has a little bit of a regression now that teams are keying on him in matchups. Without him being on Larkins line (due to a center depth issue) he isn't able to drive his own line yet. The defensive depth is hurt by no one outside of Al Jo (hopefully) and their first pairing having even decent dependability.

Age took another bite out of Petry, Holl, Chairot, Copp, and Compher. So there is a gap in the roster, hopefully Kasper/Danielson can fill it but for the next 1-2 year's center depth and defensive depth will be hurting as we look forward to the second wave of Yzerman draft picks to breakthrough into the roster.

2-3 years forward goalie looks good due to continued growth from Cossa/Augustine. But the biggest hamstring that has effected the team appears to be a lackluster pro scouting department in regards to UFA mishaps. ASP should see some time at least in 1-2 year's from the way he appears to be progressing.

Holland/Wright hurt the wings though at this point with the Zadina and Rasmussen miscue's. And it appears the Wings haven't found a outlier in the early (3 years or so of initial Stevie picks from the 2nd to 4th rounds lets say) to offset that.

Pretty much this...I've said it before and I'll say it again...We're destined for 'Minnesota Mediocrity'.

 

[rangersblues]

Please remind us how the 'Lottery Gods' look down upon us so favorably...


Pretty much this...I've said it before and I'll say it again...We're destined for 'Minnesota Mediocrity'.

Since you answered so nicely I'll remind you that the lower you finish the better the chance of getting a higher pick. The higher the pick the better chance of drafting a better player. But Steve decided to sign a bunch of marginal players to bad long term contracts so we could finish higher in the standings yet remain uncompetitive and be in perpetual rebuild. Great plan.

 

[odin1981]

Please remind us how the 'Lottery Gods' look down upon us so favorably...


Pretty much this...I've said it before and I'll say it again...We're destined for 'Minnesota Mediocrity'.

If we get a good hit or two on middle round draft picks in the second wave of picks years 4-6 of Stevies time as GM they will be consistent playoff team maybe a lucky contender on a year or two.

But the big thing because of no lottery luck in the "tank" years, it's probably gonna be a 10-12 year rebuild process unless we get 1-2 gamebreakers from the middle round picks.

I think it will really depend more so on UFA in about 2 years not taking guys that are gonna fall off 1-2 year's after we sign them. Because if we have another round of Copp/Compher/Chiarot level guys the wings will need at least another wave (years 7-9) of draft picks or a key star player level trade if no stars hit the market. But if the Wings cap out on average but declining to worse vets then it probably will be time to rebuild the rebuild.

 

[FMichael]

If we get a good hit or two on middle round draft picks in the second wave of picks years 4-6 of Stevies time as GM they will be consistent playoff team maybe a lucky contender on a year or two.

But the big thing because of no lottery luck in the "tank" years, it's probably gonna be a 10-12 year rebuild process unless we get 1-2 gamebreakers from the middle round picks.

I think it will really depend more so on UFA in about 2 years not taking guys that are gonna fall off 1-2 year's after we sign them. Because if we have another round of Copp/Compher/Chiarot level guys the wings will need atleast another wave (years 7-9) of draft picks or a key star player level trade if no stars hit the market. But if the Wings cap out on average but declining to worse vets then it probably will be time to rebuild the rebuild.

Yup - the perpetual rebuild...

Since you answered so nicely I'll remind you that the lower you finish the better the chance of getting a higher pick. The higher the pick the better chance of drafting a better player. But Steve decided to sign a bunch of marginal players to bad long term contracts so we could finish higher in the standings yet remain uncompetitive and be in perpetual rebuild. Great plan.

"the lower you finish the better the chance of getting a higher pick"

 

[odin1981]

Yup - the perpetual rebuild...

I agree that it wasn't wise to stop the tank on Bedard's year. That didn't make sense. I know hindsight is 20/20, but that was the deepest draft year since like Crosby's year. Only reason it sort of made sense is if Larkin said we need to improve or I'm gone. But then I think you look at shopping him around with a sign and trade.

 

[Henkka]

I agree that it wasn't wise to stop the tank on Bedard's year. That didn't make sense. I know hindsight is 20/20, but that was the deepest draft year since like Crosby's year. Only reason it sort of made sense is if Larkin said we need to improve or I'm gone. But then I think you look at shopping him around with a sign and trade.

I don't get your logic.

In deepest drafts you don't have to tank. You'll get a quality guy with lower 1sts, like Red Wings did in double amounts.

At drafts not so deep, you should have the top picks.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I really believe he should have traded away Larkin the year of the bedard draft. Would have lost enough to get a top 3 pick that year. Would have fit into the age of the rebuild.

Larkin is great but I struggle to see us get 22 points less that season without him. Realistically the best case scenario would have been that right now we would have Will Smith as our #1C instead of Larkin. Estimated timeline towards being a playoff team would have been 3-4 years.

 

[Winger98]

Larkin is great but I struggle to see us get 22 points less that season without him. Realistically the best case scenario would have been that right now we would have Will Smith as our #1C instead of Larkin. Estimated timeline towards being a playoff team would have been 3-4 years.

That was a year Husso was our best goalie...with a .896 save percentage. We dealt Hronek, Bertuzzi, and Sundquist during the season, and our UFA signings were Copp, Perron, Kubalik, and Chiarot.

I think it is overlooked how hard it is to be 60 point bad and the odds of the lottery rewarding you if you're out of the top3 is incredibly small. On top of that, I'm also not sure there is a great separation of the average player picked 8th and the average player picked 5th. Once you get out of the top2 spots, a lot is reliant on the quality of draft that year, or just some really good scouting/luck.

 

[norrisnick]

That was a year Husso was our best goalie...with a .896 save percentage. We dealt Hronek, Bertuzzi, and Sundquist during the season, and our UFA signings were Copp, Perron, Kubalik, and Chiarot.

I think it is overlooked how hard it is to be 60 point bad and the odds of the lottery rewarding you if you're out of the top3 is incredibly small. On top of that, I'm also not sure there is a great separation of the average player picked 8th and the average player picked 5th. Once you get out of the top2 spots, a lot is reliant on the quality of draft that year, or just some really good scouting/luck.

But Michkov is literally the greatest prospect ever and was right there to be had at 7. Or something....

 

[ricky0034]

But Michkov is literally the greatest prospect ever and was right there to be had at 7. Or something....

already has more points as a 19 year old rookie so far this year than Larkin does

 

[wingsfannn919191]

already has more points as a 19 year old rookie so far this year than Larkin does

Michkov is going to be a star , dont know how anyone can argue that. Best thing would have been to lose a few more games and end up with michkov or Leonard. Yzerman would have taken danielson anyways

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

to not be forced to rush kids into the league before they are ready and grow an ever worse culture of losing. This team moving up the standings the past three years have not been on the backs of Copp, Compher, and Chiarot. our days of a bottom 3 team were over the moment Seider and Raymond made the jump and lived up to the hype.

Ahh but you’re forgetting about the Copparadox.

Where players like Copp and Chiarot are so awful that they don’t even belong in the NHL. Yet at the same time these players prevent the team from tanking and end up getting the Wings a worse draft position.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Sooo if we decided to speed up this sh*tstorm and made moves rather than waiting for guys to develop who are basically our untouchables????

Besides the obvious players already up in seider raymond kasper edvinsson + larkin, maybe johansson since we wouldnt get anything at this point for him

Are cossa pellika danielson and probably nygard (although I'd move him depending the return) basically only untouchables ?? Is augustine considered one as well or cause of cossa he can be expendable ??

Id say Buchelnikov a keeper and finnie at this point

Can we get anything of relevance with the likes of...

mazur
Plante
one of wallinder/buium
Nilsson ,,soderblom,berggren,becher
Maybe Lombardi/Augustine


+ top 10 protected 1st ,2nds etc... in the mix???

If we made a play for zegras for example(I know we wont) would a top 10 protected 1st + buium+ mazur/berggren be enough ???

I know , we all love mazur but hes likely destined to be a bottom 6 guy

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Ahh but you’re forgetting about the Copparadox.

Where players like Copp and Chiarot are so awful that they don’t even belong in the NHL. Yet at the same time these players prevent the team from tanking and end up getting the Wings a worse draft position.

If you can model the Copparadox, there may be a Fields Medal in your future.

 

[Dotter]

Let's say in 20 years AI becomes far superior intelligence and predictor than any human to ever exist, and you plug in the scenario of yzerman's 2019-2023 era (removing all hindsight), I doubt the AI would suggest much different strategies to change the trajectory of the team.

I think people are unrealistic. DRWs for whatever reason lost the luck of the draw. It's probably the universe saying "hey you had your run, now suffer!"

That being said, I still think this is an exciting up and coming team. I enjoy watching the trajectory vs Ottawa and Sabres. That's the true benchmark for me. Making the playoffs is not as important to me. Making the playoffs to me is not good enough, when they get to that point, I want to compete for a cup every year.

 

[Retire91]

It's been flat out bad luck we never got a top 3 pick. I am pretty impressed with what they stocked the cupboard with in spite of having such terrible lottery luck. This rebuild will not be luck gifted a generational player like Pitts Washington Edmonton Chicago. Going to have to grind our way to it.

Also for these points to really to land Danielson would need to bust like Zadina which would take another 2-3 seasons to even know.

 

[FMichael]

Let's say in 20 years AI becomes far superior intelligence and predictor than any human to ever exist, and you plug in the scenario of yzerman's 2019-2023 era (removing all hindsight), I doubt the AI would suggest much different strategies to change the trajectory of the team.

I think people are unrealistic. DRWs for whatever reason lost the luck of the draw. It's probably the universe saying "hey you had your run, now suffer!"

That being said, I still think this is an exciting up and coming team. I enjoy watching the trajectory vs Ottawa and Sabres. That's the true benchmark for me. Making the playoffs is not as important to me. Making the playoffs to me is not good enough, when they get to that point, I want to compete for a cup every year.

I agree…I believe that we have some decent talent coming up and with the right guy behind the bench this team can find it’s way into the playoffs.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

If you told me in 2019 THIS is where we would be in almost 2025 i would have not been pleased. Literally everything is banking on most of our top draft picks OVERACHIEVING to fix this mess.

 

[Retire91]

Sooo if we decided to speed up this sh*tstorm and made moves rather than waiting for guys to develop who are basically our untouchables????

Besides the obvious players already up in seider raymond kasper edvinsson + larkin, maybe johansson since we wouldnt get anything at this point for him

Are cossa pellika danielson and probably nygard (although I'd move him depending the return) basically only untouchables ?? Is augustine considered one as well or cause of cossa he can be expendable ??

Id say Buchelnikov a keeper and finnie at this point

Can we get anything of relevance with the likes of...

mazur
Plante
one of wallinder/buium
Nilsson ,,soderblom,berggren,becher
Maybe Lombardi/Augustine


+ top 10 protected 1st ,2nds etc... in the mix???

If we made a play for zegras for example(I know we wont) would a top 10 protected 1st + buium+ mazur/berggren be enough ???

I know , we all love mazur but hes likely destined to be a bottom 6 guy

Buchelnikov is probably someone you hold onto to find out but honestly my hopes are not that high. From the video I see I don't think his skills translate he is not just small but is built like a toothpick and most of the goals I see are being open in high percentage areas which is not going to happen as much in the NHL unless he is another incarnation of Brett Hull.