Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[odin1981]

Nashville made it to the Final. There are far worse fates than becoming Nashville.

Could draft some superstars and not make it out of the first round like Toronto...

Who stopped tanking and rushed too early. Now they are capped out with a empty prospect pool looking at 16-24th round first round picks. One playoff series win in like 8 years is the definition of a paper tiger team.

 

[norrisnick]

Who stopped tanking and rushed too early. Now they are capped out with a empty prospect pool looking at 16-24th round first round picks. One playoff series win in like 8 years is the definition of a paper tiger team.

And yet are apparently the shining example of a rebuild....

 

[DamonDRW]

And yet are apparently the shining example of a rebuild....

The only rebuild done over the last 15 years. This actually puts rebuilds in "luck" territory. Just like drafting a generational talent.

In our own rebuild, in year 6, we are Larkin injury away from seriously competing for bottom 3.

 

[Pavels Dog]

When you trade assets for players (Debrincat) and you attempt to sign vets to plug holes. You are exciting the rebuild, and then add in the barely any cap space portion.

Signing vets to plug holes is like rebuild 101. What the hell are you even talking about lol.

 

[Nnowski]

Signing vets to plug holes is like rebuild 101. What the hell are you even talking about lol.

Singing one or two vets to short term deals is. You don't sign multiple 5 year deals. The Wings were not trying to be bad after the 2022 offseason. The management thought Copp and Chiarot were good players

 

[Finnen]

I think Shesterkin is bigger value but I think we keep Lyon like our first choose.

 

[schuelma24]

Singing one or two vets to short term deals is. You don't sign multiple 5 year deals. The Wings were not trying to be bad after the 2022 offseason. The management thought Copp and Chiarot were good players

You know Chiarot is done after next year right?

 

[Winger98]

Singing one or two vets to short term deals is. You don't sign multiple 5 year deals. The Wings were not trying to be bad after the 2022 offseason. The management thought Copp and Chiarot were good players

no, we weren't trying to be bad any more. We were coming off a 74 point season, the days of us competing for a top3 spot in the draft were over. We signed guys to insulate the youth and to allow us to build up the system. it's not a coincidence that those deals will be expiring right when the kids would hopefully be taking over spots in Detroit.

 

[Nnowski]

You know Chiarot is done after next year right?

Yes, 4 years of drafting 9th or higher with him

no, we weren't trying to be bad any more. We were coming off a 74 point season, the days of us competing for a top3 spot in the draft were over. We signed guys to insulate the youth and to allow us to build up the system. it's not a coincidence that those deals will be expiring right when the kids would hopefully be taking over spots in Detroit.

Not trying to be bad is exiting the rebuild. They chose to accelerate the process by signing FAs

 

[schuelma24]

Yes, 4 years of drafting 9th or higher with him

I genuinely do not understand your point. Is it that he's so bad that it's a bad move that he's signed through next year? Or that he's so good that we would have landed Bedard if we hadn't signed him?

 

[Nnowski]

I genuinely do not understand your point. Is it that he's so bad that it's a bad move that he's signed through next year? Or that he's so good that we would have landed Bedard if we hadn't signed him?

The individual player is irrelevant, but signing him, along with others was a sign that the Wings were looking to exit their rebuild. Their pro scouting unfortunately let them down again, and they didn't get much better the next year

 

[wingsfannn919191]

I was thinking if this team continues to be bad and we're a bottom 10 team at game 45-50 and cam talbot continues to play amazing can he be the only player who can fetch us a 1st round pick in a deal???

Theres teams like colorado who still need goaltending. We can then resign lyon and go with a lyon cossa tandem next season. I think if they split duties we'd be ok

We can use that 1st and make another debrincat like trade to improve elsewhere. Our goaltending would be so cheap we'd be able to get something out of the rangers(who'd be desperate for cap relief)If we wanted to,to take on trouba

Edvinsson seider
Chiarot pelikka(if he comes)
Johansson trouba

Lyon
Cossa

Better than this season I'd say ??? ... anyways Talbot probably doesnt fetch a 1st but if it's a cash strapped contending team and we'd retain I'd say we can.

Again before ppl lose it I'm suggesting this only if we still suck in 35 games

 

[SirloinUB]

The individual player is irrelevant, but signing him, along with others was a sign that the Wings were looking to exit their rebuild. Their pro scouting unfortunately let them down again, and they didn't get much better the next year

False.

Signing Chairot and Copp was a sign that the Red Wings were below the cap floor and needed to add 10-12 million in cap hits to ice a legal roster. They were signed as filler.

It was a weak UFA class and Detroit had to spend. Copp and Chairot were the players that had reciprocating interest in signing in Detroit.

 

[Winger98]

Not trying to be bad is exiting the rebuild. They chose to accelerate the process by signing FAs

But it would have been fine if the UFAs had been signed to shorter deals? And, yeah, they were exiting the rebuild. I'm not sure what you're arguing here unless you wanted us to bury Seider and Raymond in the minors longer and deal Larkin to extend the suck as much as possible.

 

[Nnowski]

False.

Signing Chairot and Copp was a sign that the Red Wings were below the cap floor and needed to add 10-12 million in cap hits to ice a legal roster. They were signed as filler.

It was a weak UFA class and Detroit had to spend. Copp and Chairot were the players that had reciprocating interest in signing in Detroit.

You are never forced to overpay for bad players

But it would have been fine if the UFAs had been signed to shorter deals? And, yeah, they were exiting the rebuild. I'm not sure what you're arguing here unless you wanted us to bury Seider and Raymond in the minors longer and deal Larkin to extend the suck as much as possible.

I'm assuming Yzerman had some external pressure to hurry things along. And unfortunately when you try to speed up the process you end up like this

 

[SirloinUB]

You are never forced to overpay for bad players


I'm assuming Yzerman had some external pressure to hurry things along. And unfortunately when you try to speed up the process you end up like this

There is literally a minimum salary each NHL team is required to spend. Detroit was 12 million below that number.

If it wasn't Copp/Chiarot it would have been Gudbranson and Burkaovsky (or any of the other middling/mediocre UFAs that summer).

You suggest their signings represented a shift is direction and that is fundamentally incorrect. The only thing those signings represented was that Detroit needed filler and they were that filler. Period.

Hate the players if you must but the reality is that Yzerman had to dish out significant money to someone that summer and all of the options were mediocre at best.

 

[Frk It]

You are never forced to overpay for bad players


I'm assuming Yzerman had some external pressure to hurry things along. And unfortunately when you try to speed up the process you end up like this

Hurry things along? Speed up the process?

We were active in free agency at exactly the moment it made sense to do so. When we had a bunch of contracts coming off the books and saw some tangible progress from young players like Raymond and Seider. (Plus we had already compiled a decent amount of top 5/10 picks and top 100 picks at that point.)

Being bad forever and hoping to get lucky isn’t a f***ing plan.

 

[Winger98]

You are never forced to overpay for bad players


I'm assuming Yzerman had some external pressure to hurry things along. And unfortunately when you try to speed up the process you end up like this

I would doubt anyone believed guys like Copp and Chiarot were going to seriously alter the trajectory of the franchise. We had just come off a 74 point season, had drafted top10 for six years in a row, and were clearly moving up the standings.

I think Yzerman signed these guys to these deals because we needed to fill those spots for the foreseeable future, we wanted to insulate the kids, and that's just what it costs. Could we have went cheaper? Yeah, but I don't think it radically alters where we end up drafting.

 

[Nnowski]

There is literally a minimum salary each NHL team is required to spend. Detroit was 12 million below that number.

If it wasn't Copp/Chiarot it would have been Gudbranson and Burkaovsky (or any of the other middling/mediocre UFAs that summer).

You suggest their signings represented a shift is direction and that is fundamentally incorrect. The only thing those signings represented was that Detroit needed filler and they were that filler. Period.

Hate the players if you must but the reality is that Yzerman had to dish out significant money to someone that summer and all of the options were mediocre at best.

Detroit was fully capable of giving FAs 1 or 2 year deals. You don't sign 4-5 year deals to reach the cap floor

 

[Frk It]

Detroit was fully capable of giving FAs 1 or 2 year deals. You don't sign 4-5 year deals to reach the cap floor

We have been signing players like this at every chance. But there are only so many of these guys available per off season, and no guarantee they will want to sign with your team.

The caveat to these kinds of signings are the players are usually old (Kane/Tarasenko) or have some serious flaws in their game (Sprong/Ghost).

I also think as Winger said, in the long run the issues with signing guys like Copp/Chiarot is pretty overblown.

 

[schuelma24]

Detroit was fully capable of giving FAs 1 or 2 year deals. You don't sign 4-5 year deals to reach the cap floor

Please tell me how any of the deals will materially impact the contention window going forward. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Nnowski]

We have been signing players like this at every chance. But there are only so many of these guys available per off season, and no guarantee they will want to sign with your team.

The caveat to these kinds of signings are the players are usually old (Kane/Tarasenko) or have some serious flaws in their game (Sprong/Ghost).

I also think as Winger said, in the long run the issues with signing guys like Copp/Chiarot is pretty overblown.

Copp is fine, but Chiarot actively makes his partner and team worse every time he steps on the ice

Please tell me how any of the deals will materially impact the contention window going forward. I'll hang up and listen.

My point is there isn't a contention window

 

[schuelma24]

Copp is fine, but Chiarot actively makes his partner and team worse every time he steps on the ice

He's gone after next year! He literally doesn't matter for when the Wings want to compete. How are you fine with 2 more years of Copp after this year but livid about Chiarot?

Copp is fine, but Chiarot actively makes his partner and team worse every time he steps on the ice


My point is there isn't a contention window

Yes, there literally is. Look at the roster. Look at the contracts and when they expire and look at the oodles of cap space coming open. Look at the prospects and their timeline.

 

[Nnowski]

He's gone after next year! He literally doesn't matter for when the Wings want to compete. How are you fine with 2 more years of Copp after this year but livid about Chiarot?



Yes, there literally is. Look at the roster. Look at the contracts and when they expire and look at the oodles of cap space coming open. Look at the prospects and their timeline.

If you reread my initial post, none of the prospects are going to turn this team into a contender

 

[Finnen]

Right and wrong by today's team:

Goalies:

Lyon - right
Talbot - right
Husso - trade

Defensive:

Chiarot - right
Edvinsson - right
Gustafsson - right
Holl - right
Johansson - right
Petry - trade
Seider - right

Offensive:

Berggren - right
Compher - trade
Copp - right
DeBrincat - right
Fischer - right
Kane - right
Kasper - right
Larkin - right
Motte - right
Rasmussen - trade
Raymond - right
Tarasenko - trade
Veleno - trade

6 players are wrong in rebuild.