Training Camp Thread - First round of Cuts Made (10 players)

[The Winter Soldier]

projection does not = fact.

Fact: Kadri 20 goals and 50 points

-without Kessel on his wing for extended period of time
-without 1st PP unit
-without consistent wingers
-in his 2nd full season, age 23


Fact: Bozak NO 20 goal season, NO 50 point season in the 5 years of NHL
-with Kessel on his wing
-with 1st PP unit
-with consistent wingers
-5 years @ 28 years old and still waiting

You do know it did take Kadri his 74th game(where he played 20 with Kessel and JVR) to hit 49 points don't you? How many games did it take Bozak last year?

Players do improve, look at Kessel, -38 his first 3 years with the Leafs, -7 his last 2. Bozak -38 his first 3 years as a Leaf, +1 his last 2. I am more concerned what type of player they are today, then what they were 5 years ago.

Maybe Kadri can follow suit, maybe Holland can follow suit. It is what can you do for this team now.

And Bozak and Kessel are far better today, than they were 3 to 5 years ago.

 

[sommervr]

I hate to be the grammar police but:
"It's nothing that no one's never seen before"

Lupul! That hurts my brain.

The rare and elusive triple negative. The guy is a savant

 

[King85Kong]

I hate to be the grammar police but:
"It's nothing that no one's never seen before"

Lupul! That hurts my brain.

That's hard to say out loud.
Try saying that five times fast.

 

[snizzbone*]

Meaningless scrimmage or not, interesting to see the Kontiola and Nylander with Kessel, and Holland scoring 2x. Wonder if perhaps we end up seeing Bozak as 3rd line C, perhaps the role he's best suited for.

Bozak is hurt, that is the reason Kontiola was playing up there.

 

[King85Kong]

Bozak is hurt, that is the reason Kontiola was playing up there.

People are reading way to much into a scrimmage game(s). Hard to judge players from it.
At this rate our first line will be Orr-Nylander-Frattin.

 

[X66]

My God Phaneuf can be a dumbass sometimes.

Anyone catch the scrimmage? He was on a one on one with Polak and just wire a slap shot at Polak and it looked like it Stung Polak bad.

Polak just raised his arms like "what the hell are you doing" towards Phaneuf.

This guy can be so dumb sometimes, First it was Komisarek, then Lupul, then JVR now Polak lol.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

You do know it did take Kadri his 74th game(where he played 20 with Kessel and JVR) to hit 49 points don't you? How many games did it take Bozak last year?

Players do improve, look at Kessel, -38 his first 3 years with the Leafs, -7 his last 2. Bozak -38 his first 3 years as a Leaf, +1 his last 2. I am more concerned what type of player they are today, then what they were 5 years ago.

Maybe Kadri can follow suit, maybe Holland can follow suit. It is what can you do for this team now.

And Bozak and Kessel are far better today, than they were 3 to 5 years ago.

The point is:

projection does not = fact.

Fact: Kadri 20 goals and 50 points

-without Kessel on his wing for extended period of time
-without 1st PP unit
-without consistent wingers
-in his 2nd full season, age 23


Fact: Bozak NO 20 goal season, NO 50 point season in the 5 years of NHL
-with Kessel on his wing
-with 1st PP unit
-with consistent wingers
-5 years @ 28 years old and still waiting

That still stands. I was just correcting you.

FYI in the last 2: Kadri is +3, Bozak is as you mentioned +2.

As far as I can tell, Kadri can and has done more for this team in the last 2 than Bozak. FYI, go ahead and calculate their PPG for the last 2 seasons

 

[leafstilldeath*]

My God Phaneuf can be a dumbass sometimes.

Anyone catch the scrimmage? He was on a one on one with Polak and just wire a slap shot at Polak and it looked like it Stung Polak bad.

Polak just raised his arms like "what the hell are you doing" towards Phaneuf.

This guy can be so dumb sometimes, First it was Komisarek, then Lupul, then JVR now Polak lol.

#CaptainMaterial

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The point is:

projection does not = fact.

Fact: Kadri 20 goals and 50 points

-without Kessel on his wing for extended period of time
-without 1st PP unit
-without consistent wingers
-in his 2nd full season, age 23


Fact: Bozak NO 20 goal season, NO 50 point season in the 5 years of NHL
-with Kessel on his wing
-with 1st PP unit
-with consistent wingers
-5 years @ 28 years old and still waiting

That still stands. I was just correcting you.

FYI in the last 2: Kadri is +3, Bozak is as you mentioned +2.

As far as I can tell, Kadri can and has done more for this team in the last 2 than Bozak. FYI, go ahead and calculate their PPG for the last 2 seasons

I know you love to cite QOT, Kadri's 3 line mates last year were Kessel, Lupul, and Raymond according to extrakater.com. Let's not rehash this, I think we both know each answers by now.

The excuses for Kadri need to cease, he had good QOT as illustrated by Leafs new hire Metcalf above, a team low QOC, a team high offensive zone starts, a team low defensive zone starts. If you want to tout a 50 pt, -11 season under these favourable conditions, go ahead.

I expect more as should most Leafs fans.

 

[Daisy Jane]

My God Phaneuf can be a dumbass sometimes.

Anyone catch the scrimmage? He was on a one on one with Polak and just wire a slap shot at Polak and it looked like it Stung Polak bad.

Polak just raised his arms like "what the hell are you doing" towards Phaneuf.

This guy can be so dumb sometimes, First it was Komisarek, then Lupul, then JVR now Polak lol.

seriously?
(sigh).

maybe we should let Mr Triple Negative be Captain. He may only show up on Saturday Nights, made of glass, and now talk in triple negatives (that was impressive ) but he doesn't break his teammates.


(i kid. i kid).

 

[X66]

seriously?
(sigh).

maybe we should let Mr Triple Negative be Captain. He may only show up on Saturday Nights, made of glass, and now talk in triple negatives (that was impressive ) but he doesn't break his teammates.


(i kid. i kid).

Yup, check out the 6:55 mark of the video

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=631391&catid=802

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I know you love to cite QOT, Kadri's 3 line mates last year were Kessel, Lupul, and Raymond according to extrakater.com. Let's not rehash this, I think we both know each answers by now.

The excuses for Kadri need to cease, he had good QOT, low QOC, a team high offensive zone starts, a team low defensive zone starts. If you want to tout a 50 pt, -11 season under these favourable conditions, go ahead.

I expect more.

You so conveniently disregarded the Ds, include as well : gives CONTEXT

Bozak's 3 line mates last year were Kessel, JVR, Lupul, D: Dion, Gunnar

Kadri's 3 line mates last year were Lupul, Raymond, Kessel, D: Franson, Gardiner

Yet Bozak's line finds itself among the league's highest GA line year after year. The excuses for Bozak's "imaginative" defensive plays needs to end. He had higher QoT than QoC, yet had very poor Corsi/Fenwick, relativeCorsi/Fenwick, high GA/60 (even strength,higher than Kadri), Poor PrimaryPoints on PP

For a player that is in the league for 5 years, has had consistent line mates for 5 years, plays with the best player of the franchise, gets 1st PP time and is yet to crack 50 points or 20 goal barrier is a shame. And also the highest paid Center on the team.

I expect more!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You so conveniently disregarded the Ds, include as well : gives CONTEXT

Bozak's 3 line mates last year were Kessel, JVR, Lupul, D: Dion, Gunnar

Kadri's 3 line mates last year were Lupul, Raymond, Kessel, D: Franson, Gardiner

Yet Bozak's line finds itself among the league's highest GA line year after year. The excuses for Bozak's "imaginative" defensive plays needs to end. He had higher QoT than QoC, yet had very poor Corsi/Fenwick, relativeCorsi/Fenwick, high GA/60 (even strength,higher than Kadri), Poor PrimaryPoints on PP

For a player that is in the league for 5 years, has had consistent line mates for 5 years, plays with the best player of the franchise, gets 1st PP time and is yet to crack 50 points or 20 goal barrier is a shame. And also the highest paid Center on the team.

I expect more!

One thing, I have to bring up that really makes your positions nonsensical, are you now claiming Dion Phaneuf is a bonus to play with, after what you have said about him in the Phaneuf thread? Which one is it..Is he good or bad?

You can't have it both ways. Gotcha there.

 

[happyaccident]

I hate to be the grammar police but:
"It's nothing that no one's never seen before"

Lupul! That hurts my brain.

I can't say that I don't fail to disagree.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yup, check out the 6:55 mark of the video

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=631391&catid=802

oh wow. (I was just focused on that Orr scored the goal, i didn't watch further). What the heck was he thinking?

 

[leafstilldeath*]

One thing, I have to bring up that really makes your positions nonsensical, are you now claiming Dion Phaneuf is a bonus to play with, after what you have said about him in the Phaneuf thread? Which one is it..Is he good or bad?

You can't have it both ways. Gotcha there.

Dion is a much better D than Franson there are no secrets.

And once again you rise to the occasion of turning the thread around instead of answering the questions. Every step of the way Kadri has kicked Bozak's ass in everything (except FOs) in the last 2 years lol.

So do you think Dion is better than Franson? Do you think Franson played better last season and that should have translated in a better +/- for Kadri? lol

Keep throwing the ball and keep getting knocked out of the park. Everyone here has proved you wrong many times but you keep up the charade

Kudos

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Dion is a much better D than Franson there are no secrets.

And once again you rise to the occasion of turning the thread around instead of answering the questions. Every step of the way Kadri has kicked Bozak's ass in everything (except FOs) in the last 2 years lol.

So do you think Dion is better than Franson? Do you think Franson played better last season and that should have translated in a better +/- for Kadri? lol

Keep throwing the ball and keep getting knocked out of the park. Everyone here has proved you wrong many times but you keep up the charade

Kudos

I know Dion is the best D man on the Leafs for now or until Rielly becomes our best D man. But do you know this? Not if one read the Phaneuf thread.

Franson led the Leafs D in scoring the past 2 seasons. He is fine offensively. Defensively he is a reflection of this entire team.

I think you are covering your bases here since I showed how nonsensical your argument is.

You cannot cite a player has good QOT for D, and in the same breath say he is not a very good D man in another thread, this is what you did and I just wanted you to clarify which one is it? Good Dion or bad Dion depending on which narrative you choose.

 

[Drew75]

There were some really interesting things from the vid's of the two scrimmages ...

Nylander and Kessel looked seriously dangerous ... could he take that top centre spot in a couple of years?

Lupul and Leivo looked great together! I'm wondering how Kadri would fit up the middle there?

I know it's only one half-assed scrimmage - but Kadri seriously looks like he's taken a step up in his game! He seems to handle the puck with a lot more confidence, taking control of the plays rather than waiting for the play to come to him. I know confidence was never his issue, but there just seems another level of maturity in his game.

Loov and Nilsson are awesome - does anyone know if any / both will be with the Marlies? I thought Loov was heading back as he's under contract in the SHL - but then shouldn't he already be over there????

 

[diceman934]

oh wow. (I was just focused on that Orr scored the goal, i didn't watch further). What the heck was he thinking?

He struggles with that aspect of his game!

 

[diceman934]

There were some really interesting things from the vid's of the two scrimmages ...

Nylander and Kessel looked seriously dangerous ... could he take that top centre spot in a couple of years?

Lupul and Leivo looked great together! I'm wondering how Kadri would fit up the middle there?

I know it's only one half-assed scrimmage - but Kadri seriously looks like he's taken a step up in his game! He seems to handle the puck with a lot more confidence, taking control of the plays rather than waiting for the play to come to him. I know confidence was never his issue, but there just seems another level of maturity in his game.

Loov and Nilsson are awesome - does anyone know if any / both will be with the Marlies? I thought Loov was heading back as he's under contract in the SHL - but then shouldn't he already be over there????

Kadri had lots of jump.....he look like a rookie trying to make an impression...controlled the puck and pace of play...

It looks like Kadri is in for a big season...

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I know Dion is the best D man on the Leafs for now or until Rielly becomes our best D man. But do you know this? Not if one read the Phaneuf thread.

Franson led the Leafs D in scoring the past 2 seasons. He is fine offensively. Defensively he is a reflection of this entire team.

I think you are covering your bases here since I showed how nonsensical your argument is.

You cannot cite a player has good QOT for D, and in the same breath say he is not a very good D man in another thread, this is what you did and I just wanted you to clarify which one is it? Good Dion or bad Dion depending on which narrative you choose.

You know what nonsensical is? when you claim Kessel cannot score without Bozak. You know what nonsensical is? when you claim Bozak is the reason Kessel has any success.

You what nonsensical is? when you claim Bozak is better than Kadri.

Further to the ridiculousness of your post, do you even know how QoT is calculated or what it means?

Could you clarify how is it that Kadri has better stats for the last 2 years and yet you keep pumping Bozak?

Could you clarify if Franson's D is the reflection of the team? his Kadri's plus-minus not a reflection of the team but just him?

Could you clarify how is it Kadri cannot get better but Bozak has gotten better in the last 5 years?

Your double standards and hypocrisy aint gonna work no more.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You know what nonsensical is? when you claim Kessel cannot score without Bozak. You know what nonsensical is? when you claim Bozak is the reason Kessel has any success.

You what nonsensical is? when you claim Bozak is better than Kadri.

Further to the ridiculousness of your post, do you even know how QoT is calculated or what it means?

Could you clarify how is it that Kadri has better stats for the last 2 years and yet you keep pumping Bozak?

Could you clarify if Franson's D is the reflection of the team? his Kadri's plus-minus not a reflection of the team but just him?

Could you clarify how is it Kadri cannot get better but Bozak has gotten better in the last 5 years?

Your double standards and hypocrisy aint gonna work no more.

Nope, I don't think I will answer since this is not what I asked. Since I just wanted an answer to my question above that you did not answer.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Nope, I don't think I will answer since this is not what I asked. Since I just wanted an answer to my question above that you did not answer.

ofcourse you won't because it is pretty evident that Kadri>>>Bozak. I shall address your question when you address my queries before you turned the thread around by bringing Bozak and turning our discussion around by bringing Kessel, Lupul and Raymond into the discussion.

Good luck with your double standards.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

ofcourse you won't because it is pretty evident that Kadri>>>Bozak. I shall address your question when you address my queries before you turned the thread around.

Good luck with your double standards.

It is not evident at all. But I have a bigger fish to fry now. Is it good Dion or bad Dion. Which narrative are you using this time? This is and was my only question to you when you made your claim of QOT. Obfuscating does not make your position stronger.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Is it good Dion or bad Dion. Which narrative are you using this time? This is and was my only question when you made your claim of QOT.

Go back last two pages and see where did I use QoT? And see who brought QoT into the discussion.

Hint: It was you.

I only corrected you that projection does not = fact. And listed a few facts for you before you brought in the QoT.

Then I asked you a few questions which you conveniently ignored bringing in Kessel, Raymond and Lupul into dicussion and are now off to another tangent on defenseman.

Keep rising to the occasion.

I think pretty much everyone has an idea of the kind of poster you are.

#NoMoreDoubleStandards