News Article: Training camp starts. Camp discussion

[joestevens29]

I don't know I mean you learn a little. You get to see how a player generally conducts themself on the ice and approaches the game and what he does to try to make his mark. It also gets everyone in the same place for easy viewing and comparison for management.

I like that they've sent a lot of guys down already though for some of the reasons you stated. I think there is some value in getting a look at everyone at once though.

Goes a long way for guys that think they are close and then realize they physically need to get stronger or faster or whatever.

 

[Cypress]

Also I'm not getting the hype over McLeod making the team this year. I can see maybe he's exceeding expectations, but to me he looks like he currently belongs in the minors and would have a realistic shot to make the team in a year or two.

 

[Bank Shot]

Also I'm not getting the hype over McLeod making the team this year. I can see maybe he's exceeding expectations, but to me he looks like he currently belongs in the minors and would have a realistic shot to make the team in a year or two.

Because he's new and shiny. Every good thing he does is amplified, and every mistake glossed over.

Such is fandom.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Because he's new and shiny. Every good thing he does is amplified, and every mistake glossed over.

Such is fandom.

Not really he's played very well and looks like be belongs with the NHL group of players. You don't have to ignore what he's actually doing because "too young" and "don't rush, too young"

 

[CycloneSweep]

Some general comments on training camp...


I watch the pre-season games... and it's a chop suey mix of players that you know will never make the NHL, vets with 5 months of rust in their bodies and prospects who are busting their asses to make it and "overplaying" in some situations in order to make a good impression.

You have forward lines and d-pairings that have never played together and you throw them in there and expect to assess them vs other teams with the same mish-mash of prospects/vets and no-hopers.

I think the first half of training camp is pretty much a waste really to be honest... yes it helps players shake the rust off but as far as evaluating skills, it's pretty much useless. Too much randomness in the rosters... no real systems in place including nothing concrete on PP and PK structures... even the new coaches are likely trying to all get on the same page with their coaching methods and systems as well.

If the camp was basically comprised of say 25-30 players with actual legit chances to make the team from Day 1... at least that would allow some slightly more meaningful assessments as you'd have everyone (very roughly) at the same levels so at least you could run lines and work on structure and PK/PP systems could be worked on earlier... which would allow for more comparing and contrasting to see which players might actually help the team the most in certain situations.

I know you have to allow everyone their slice of camp to give everyone that feeling that they are a valued member of the org... but realistically it's not until much later in camp that much of anything useful starts to actually occur in terms of building chemistry and getting solid PK/PP units going and teaching the systems that the team will be using.

3 goalies

9 dmen

16 forwards

That's probably an ideal camp.

You know you'll have to cut 1 goalie... 2 dmen and 2 forwards and that makes for a much better environment to actually teach systems and actually get the team bonded and ready for the season while still having a little healthy competition in camp for positions.


63 players in camp (some teams have 70+) is pretty meaningless in terms of actually getting much done until it's whittled down to that 25-30 number anyway.

It depends on how the org does it. How we are doing it this year is great

Guys with zero chance, haven't shown anything and are Juniors were cut quick this year.

AHL guys with no chance to make the team get cut next next.

AHL guys who have a good chance to be callups/junior players with great showing get cut next.

Last round of cuts are guys that are legit fighting for a spot.

 

[DaGap]

Dont forget were heading to europe as well and I believe its a 25 man roster for over there

 

[CycloneSweep]

Because he's new and shiny. Every good thing he does is amplified, and every mistake glossed over.

Such is fandom.

Not really.

His mistakes are glossed over because so far they are few and far between. The positives have outweighed the negatives.

We sucked last year and there are quite a few guys who had bad years who he has outplayed so far in camp (Caggiula and Kassian specifically).

And he is playing quite well. We have other shiny toys that haven't been playing super well and people acknowledge it.

It's like any player. When the mistakes are rare and the food is very good, it's easy to waive over the little bad there is

 

[Bank Shot]

Not really.

His mistakes are glossed over because so far they are few and far between. The positives have outweighed the negatives.

We sucked last year and there are quite a few guys who had bad years who he has outplayed so far in camp (Caggiula and Kassian specifically).

And he is playing quite well. We have other shiny toys that haven't been playing super well and people acknowledge it.

It's like any player. When the mistakes are rare and the food is very good, it's easy to waive over the little bad there is

How can you possibly make a statement like that after the one game they played together where it's McLeod's Stanley Cup Finals and just a preseason game to Caggiula and Kassian.

McLeod hasn't even seen NHL calibre competition yet. Every year there is a guy that lights it up throughout the preseason that ends up being a 4th liner at best.

People need to pump the brakes a bit with expectations based off of extremely limited viewings in training camp IMO.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I mean if you don't understand why McLeod is getting love, you just haven't been watching very closely.

The ****ing coaches are putting him in for his 3rd game in a row in Ryan Strome's spot.

 

[CycloneSweep]

How can you possibly make a statement like that after the one game they played together where it's McLeod's Stanley Cup Finals and just a preseason game to Caggiula and Kassian.

McLeod hasn't even seen NHL calibre competition yet. Every year there is a guy that lights it up throughout the preseason that ends up being a 4th liner at best.

People need to pump the brakes a bit with expectations based off of extremely limited viewings in training camp IMO.

Well that's an issue then. Players who had shit years can't just a thought like it's another pre season game. Their spots aren't guaranteed and if they keep acting like it is, they will be gone fast. McLeod is our second best skater. Maybe third behind Nurse. Plays a smart two way game. Has shown a very high hockey iq and has NHL ready size.

Don't think he will make the team but it's easy to see why he is showing impressive. Coaches see it, media sees it and a lot of us do too.

 

[GMofOilers]

Dont forget were heading to europe as well and I believe its a 25 man roster for over there

It can be, but TM said the other day that they will take there 23 man roster.

 

[oXo Cube]

I'm good with McLeod getting more of a look.

Haven't been as impressed with him as the coaches apparently are, but it's not like he's being penciled into the opening night roster here.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It can be, but TM said the other day that they will take there 23 man roster.

Extra goalie too

 

[Bank Shot]

Well that's an issue then. Players who had **** years can't just a thought like it's another pre season game. Their spots aren't guaranteed and if they keep acting like it is, they will be gone fast. McLeod is our second best skater. Maybe third behind Nurse. Plays a smart two way game. Has shown a very high hockey iq and has NHL ready size.

Don't think he will make the team but it's easy to see why he is showing impressive. Coaches see it, media sees it and a lot of us do too.

I agree he's looked good, but we all know that guys coming up just get the benefit of the doubt.

There are already fans out there that don't like Kassian and Caggiula that will nitpick everything they do.

McLeod doesn't have expectations so anything he does is a source of joy. He's not getting marked as hard as the veterans by the fanbase and that's a fact.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

all know that guys coming up just get the benefit of the doubt.

Why do you assume this? Because I find it's actually finding reasons to send them down and the young players having to force their way into sticking around.

 

[nexttothemoon]

I think they really like McLeod. Good speed, big body and seems to be doing pretty well so far... I also think this is a little present to encourage/reward him before he goes back to Junior.

It's rare to get 3 games in a row in camp so they obviously like what they are seeing.

With guys like Benson/Yamamoto, the Oilers know they'll have access to them all season long as they have that AHL option with them... but with McLeod, this camp is the only chance they'll get to see him before he heads back to Junior so putting him in there with other NHL players on his line now gives him the carrot to show what he can expect if he keeps working.

He was rumoured to have some issues with motivation and consistency as well in Junior... so maybe this helps focus him to see that when he does really apply himself... the rewards are going to come sooner than he thinks.


His birthday is tomorrow as well... so even that plays into it a little.

 

[Aerchon]

Also I'm not getting the hype over McLeod making the team this year. I can see maybe he's exceeding expectations, but to me he looks like he currently belongs in the minors and would have a realistic shot to make the team in a year or two.

He is a sublime playmaker that makes those around him better. NHL size, speed, and IQ. Have not seen enough of his shot to say its as good as the rest of his skillset but he looks like an NHL player right now.

Plays a bit too much on the perimeter.

Especially from what I've seen he is a true blue prospect that "should" make the NHL, its just a matter of when and how good more than if.

 

[Bank Shot]

Why do you assume this?

I assume this because that is how it actually is. Did you see a big segment of the fanbase trashing Eberle or Gagner or Yakupov (I could go on and on here)in their rookie seasons? They were essentially universally praised. Only after a few years in the league did you get a sizable section of fans riding them for their deficiencies. These guys didn't get worse defensively with age. The problems were always there.

Because I find it's actually finding reasons to send them down and the young players having to force their way into sticking around.

Which team are you a fan of?

Edmonton has been putting questionably ready prospects into the NHL since 2007.

You know that if they send someone down. He clearly is over his head.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I assume this because that is how it actually is. Did you see a big segment of the fanbase trashing Eberle or Gagner or Yakupov (I could go on and on here)in their rookie seasons? They were essentially universally praised. Only after a few years in the league did you get a sizable section of fans riding them for their deficiencies. These guys didn't get worse defensively with age. The problems were always there.




Which team are you a fan of?

Edmonton has been putting questionably ready prospects into the NHL since 2007.

You know that if they send someone down. He clearly is over his head.

So you're conflating Fans thoughts with team actions and views, that's your mistake not mine or theirs.

Young players might get the benefit of the doubt from the Fans, but they don't from the team, because the team needs players who can play and help the team win. So if young players look like they aren't ready, see Safin, Skinner, etc, they get sent down. If young players really show they seem to be above where the team might have "considered" them at the start of the camp process, they get a longer look.

It's pretty simple stuff, it's all teams work. It's why young players make teams across the league, sometimes out of nowhere.

 

[Bank Shot]

So you're conflating Fans thoughts with team actions and views, that's your mistake not mine or theirs.

Young players might get the benefit of the doubt from the Fans, but they don't from the team, because the team needs players who can play and help the team win. So if young players look like they aren't ready, see Safin, Skinner, etc, they get sent down. If young players really show they seem to be above where the team might have "considered" them at the start of the camp process, they get a longer look.

It's pretty simple stuff, it's all teams work. It's why young players make teams across the league, sometimes out of nowhere.

I was talking about the fans. You were the one that brought the team into it.

Fans give the prospects the benefit of the doubt on a pretty regular basis.

I don't think that's really up for debate and FANS talking about McLeod possibly making the team have jumped the gun by a lot.

He hasn't proven anything yet.

 

[McBooya42]

I mean if you don't understand why McLeod is getting love, you just haven't been watching very closely.

The ****ing coaches are putting him in for his 3rd game in a row in Ryan Strome's spot.

What the hell do they know though.....RIGHT?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I was talking about the fans. You were the one that brought the team into it.

Fans give the prospects the benefit of the doubt on a pretty regular basis.

I don't think that's really up for debate and FANS talking about McLeod possibly making the team have jumped the gun by a lot.

He hasn't proven anything yet.

Then treat as such, because if you're just telling everyone to calm down, just repeat that and leave it at that. If you're pretending to discuss the players' actual performance in camp, the reality and how he's being treated by the team is what matters.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

It’s almost a shame McLeod isn’t a tad older, it would be awesome to see that line of him, Benson and Yamamoto spend some months together running their own line in Bako. They’ve already got some pretty great chemistry churning away. If all three pan out (huge if, I’m aware) that could potentially be a really solid second line for the Oil a few years down the road. The next Cogs, Gags and Nils perhaps.

 

[McDNicks17]

It’s almost a shame McLeod isn’t a tad older, it would be awesome to see that line of him, Benson and Yamamoto spend some months together running their own line in Bako. They’ve already got some pretty great chemistry churning away. If all three pan out (huge if, I’m aware) that could potentially be a really solid second line for the Oil a few years down the road. The next Cogs, Gags and Nils perhaps.

Maybe he'll get traded to Niagara and he and Maksimov can destroy the OHL together.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

I thought Benson would stick around a little longer.