Guys like Petry and Gilbert had really strong first camps but they were also older University guys. I believe they were both sent down but it was more for contract reasons. None of our 2nd rounders in the last decade has even managed to be a decent NHLer, never mind make the team the same year as the draft.
News Article: Training camp starts. Camp discussion
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Guys like Petry and Gilbert had really strong first camps but they were also older University guys. I believe they were both sent down but it was more for contract reasons. None of our 2nd rounders in the last decade has even managed to be a decent NHLer, never mind make the team the same year as the draft.
ChaoticOrange
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Del Preston
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Mark Messier (1979, 3rd round), Jari Kurri (1980, 4th) and Jaroslav Pouzar (1982, 4th) are the only ones I've found. Messier was 18-years-old, Kurri 20, and Pouzar 30.
Two HHOFers and another guy who won three Cups with the Oilers. Not bad company.
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780il
edm
Still amazes me how Messier and Kurri were 3rd and 4th round picks. Crazy.
booyakasha
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Thats somewhat forgivable, as scouting in those days was n't very good...nowadays?
Jamie Benn was picked 129th, and Mark Stone taken 178th...now that's Crazy.
780il
edm
Add in Parayko and Klingberg as more 5th rounders.
Sidenote: if Nill knew how to draft with his first rounders the Stars could've won a cup by now. Benn and Klingberg in the 5th round is insane.
Louis Cypher
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Del Preston
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nexttothemoon
and again...
Del Preston
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And Ryan Mantha is listed on the training camp roster. I think everything else is accurate though.
What happened to some of the players that played well in the rookie tournament the past 2 years?
joestevens29
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Sure hope the team isn't thinking like this. I have no issue with McLeod ending up here, but them talking about it this early is just not a good sign
Wewillrise
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The Benn draft pick was traded twice before Dallas selected too, It was originally Columbus’s and then the Bruins before being traded to Dallas.
joestevens29
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Assuming like most of our draft picks in that 2008-2013 era they fizzled away.
Seems like we've been able to identify players that are really good for their age, just don't have much development left in them.
Oddly enough there was some talk about the Oil Kings being like this as well.
Jimmi McJenkins
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joestevens29
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Yep April 2013
Below are guys that played in the NHL. Not even 400 gp combined
2013
Nichuskin
Dikson
Elie
Paul
2014
Honka
2015
Guiranov
2017
Ferguson(1 game 7th rounder)
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
joestevens29
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For me Nill is always talked as of a great GM, although last year not so much. But I just don't see him getting any results to warrant the praise he's gotten.
I mean he did trade for Horcoff
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
It's a good hockey mind, I'm sure, but everyone from Detroit gets more credit then they deserve for being brilliant hockey guys because everyone forgets that Nik Lidstrom's constant and consistent present had a MASSIVE effect on the franchise.
Edit: Ken Holland has said that before and people just laugh it off.
Klingberg was drafted high if anything, at the time he was almost a reach in that position. Everything changed pretty fast after that though and I commend the scout who realised, to a small extent, his potential at the time. Already the following year he was such a different player, even though people call it a bad season for him (bounced around between teams) I remember well seeing him play (in Frolunda) and when he was "in the zone" it was really impressive. The question was if he could find consistency in his performance.
nexttothemoon
and again...
Some general comments on training camp...
I watch the pre-season games... and it's a chop suey mix of players that you know will never make the NHL, vets with 5 months of rust in their bodies and prospects who are busting their asses to make it and "overplaying" in some situations in order to make a good impression.
You have forward lines and d-pairings that have never played together and you throw them in there and expect to assess them vs other teams with the same mish-mash of prospects/vets and no-hopers.
I think the first half of training camp is pretty much a waste really to be honest... yes it helps players shake the rust off but as far as evaluating skills, it's pretty much useless. Too much randomness in the rosters... no real systems in place including nothing concrete on PP and PK structures... even the new coaches are likely trying to all get on the same page with their coaching methods and systems as well.
If the camp was basically comprised of say 25-30 players with actual legit chances to make the team from Day 1... at least that would allow some slightly more meaningful assessments as you'd have everyone (very roughly) at the same levels so at least you could run lines and work on structure and PK/PP systems could be worked on earlier... which would allow for more comparing and contrasting to see which players might actually help the team the most in certain situations.
I know you have to allow everyone their slice of camp to give everyone that feeling that they are a valued member of the org... but realistically it's not until much later in camp that much of anything useful starts to actually occur in terms of building chemistry and getting solid PK/PP units going and teaching the systems that the team will be using.
3 goalies
9 dmen
16 forwards
That's probably an ideal camp.
You know you'll have to cut 1 goalie... 2 dmen and 2 forwards and that makes for a much better environment to actually teach systems and actually get the team bonded and ready for the season while still having a little healthy competition in camp for positions.
63 players in camp (some teams have 70+) is pretty meaningless in terms of actually getting much done until it's whittled down to that 25-30 number anyway.
I watch the pre-season games... and it's a chop suey mix of players that you know will never make the NHL, vets with 5 months of rust in their bodies and prospects who are busting their asses to make it and "overplaying" in some situations in order to make a good impression.
You have forward lines and d-pairings that have never played together and you throw them in there and expect to assess them vs other teams with the same mish-mash of prospects/vets and no-hopers.
I think the first half of training camp is pretty much a waste really to be honest... yes it helps players shake the rust off but as far as evaluating skills, it's pretty much useless. Too much randomness in the rosters... no real systems in place including nothing concrete on PP and PK structures... even the new coaches are likely trying to all get on the same page with their coaching methods and systems as well.
If the camp was basically comprised of say 25-30 players with actual legit chances to make the team from Day 1... at least that would allow some slightly more meaningful assessments as you'd have everyone (very roughly) at the same levels so at least you could run lines and work on structure and PK/PP systems could be worked on earlier... which would allow for more comparing and contrasting to see which players might actually help the team the most in certain situations.
I know you have to allow everyone their slice of camp to give everyone that feeling that they are a valued member of the org... but realistically it's not until much later in camp that much of anything useful starts to actually occur in terms of building chemistry and getting solid PK/PP units going and teaching the systems that the team will be using.
3 goalies
9 dmen
16 forwards
That's probably an ideal camp.
You know you'll have to cut 1 goalie... 2 dmen and 2 forwards and that makes for a much better environment to actually teach systems and actually get the team bonded and ready for the season while still having a little healthy competition in camp for positions.
63 players in camp (some teams have 70+) is pretty meaningless in terms of actually getting much done until it's whittled down to that 25-30 number anyway.
I don't know I mean you learn a little. You get to see how a player generally conducts themself on the ice and approaches the game and what he does to try to make his mark. It also gets everyone in the same place for easy viewing and comparison for management.
I like that they've sent a lot of guys down already though for some of the reasons you stated. I think there is some value in getting a look at everyone at once though.
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