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GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II

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LeafSteel said:
That would be extremely short sighted by Dubas and Leafs management.

Yes, Liljegren was drafted by Lou, but he spent the majority of his draft year as the consensus No.2 pick until he got sick, which is why the Leafs were thrilled that he dropped to them.

I hope Dubas has a better evaluation of talent beyond the end of his nose, because that would make him pretty stupid otherwise…
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They other reason could be Liljegren's bonuses. He has 400k in performance bonuses while Sandin has none. I don't think that should keep Liljegren out of the lineup though.
 
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justashadowof said:
I feel like we're being gaslit with this Liljegren on the 2nd pairing stuff. Barring injury I doubt he's in the lineup opening night.

Keefe was really testing Kral last night. I wouldn't etch in stone that Kral won't have the best NHL career of all Leafs' defense prospects. Kral seems to have that no panic vibe Kaberle had.
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In junior, he use to do these calm end to end rushes on his backhand.... old school. :thumbu:
It seems really hard to shake him. Just unphased most of the time.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
They other reason could be Liljegren's bonuses. He has 400k in performance bonuses while Sandin has none. I don't think that should keep Liljegren out of the lineup though.
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That kept him out of the lineup last year, but you have to find a way to get him in eventually. move somebody. make it happen.
 
A1LeafNation said:
An example would be having Simmonds and Gabriel on the 4th line one night and then having Spezza and Ho-Sang another night.

We don't know if we are playing a skilled team like Tampa in the playoffs or a bruising team like Boston use to be. Also applies to the regular season as teams are configured differently.

Being able to have a roster that can do both is another card for Keefe to play that isn't available to him because of shitty cap/roster planning.
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The thing is, Boston and Tampa did not have guys like Simmonds or Gabriel in their lineups. Neither had pure enforcers who can only play 5 minutes like Gabriel, and Tampa actually dumped some guys with grit because they did not have enough skill. Eventually they added some skilled grit back with Coleman, Bogosian, and Goodrow, but that was at the TDL. Boston's depth guys over the years (Nosek, Acciari, Kuhlman, Kuraly, Wagner, Haula, etc.) actually play a game that is more reminiscent of Semyonov and Brooks than Simmonds; two-way skill with a special focus on the defensive end, hounding the puck, and great skating ability. Simmonds, at best, has/does one of those three things. You will also notice that while stocky, none of those guys are particularly big nor do they commonly get into fights.

Patrick Maroon is the closest thing to Simmonds that either team has in their lineup, and Maroon has played significantly better than Simmonds the past few years. If Simmonds can return to his pre-injury play, then maybe he can be a Maroon for us... But he has to work his way up to that and prove it, because he had maybe a dozen game stretch where he was anywhere close to that useful/good.

Also, come playoffs, there is no cap. So if we want to rotate in a guy like Simmonds, cap won't be the reason it does not happen. Even during the regular season, there are ways we can make it work. If our "shitty cap/roster planning" is resulting in a 13th forward having to be waived and kept on reserve rather than permanently occupying a 13th forward spot on our roster, then there will be a lot of envious teams out there.
 
Would teams pick up Simmonds on waivers? I don’t think a lot of teams would claim Simmonds esp with his two years contract.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
I say no, but others say yes.

I think even if it happens, it is not a huge deal. It is not something the Leafs should concern themselves with.
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He will likely have to pass through waivers at some point during the season even if they keep him on the opening day roster. Hiding a player from waivers when he hasn't even played good enough to be on a team is bizaarre to me.
 
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A1LeafNation said:
An example would be having Simmonds and Gabriel on the 4th line one night and then having Spezza and Ho-Sang another night.

We don't know if we are playing a skilled team like Tampa in the playoffs or a bruising team like Boston use to be. Also applies to the regular season as teams are configured differently.

Being able to have a roster that can do both is another card for Keefe to play that isn't available to him because of shitty cap/roster planning.
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Simmonds and Gabriel at the same time?

Yikes.
 
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zeke said:
Simmonds and Gabriel at the same time?

Yikes.
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They are significantly better at hockey than Orr and McLaren who played on the same line a few years ago (although I understand the game has gotten more skill dependant).
 
20-21 minutes: Marner, Matthews
18-19 minutes: Nylander, Tavares
14-16 minutes: Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kampf, Kase, Ritchie, Bunting (the exact amount depends on special teams usage)
10-11 minutes: Spezza, Brooks/Semyonov/Simmonds/Engvall

Effectively, Marner and Matthews' get a cut in minutes so that Tavares + Nylander get to play more.

Hyman's minutes + the cut in minutes from the 12th forward (Engvall, Simmonds, etc.) will go towards the third tier. Mikheyev and Kerfoot should get a slight increase from last year as a result.
 
Jimmy Firecracker said:
I think Kampf has 3C on lock.

Ritchie Matthews Marner
Bunting Tavares Nylander
Kerfoot Kampf Kase
Mikheyev Spezza Simmonds


Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin

No cap room to carry an extra forward.



Wholeheartedly agree. If you don't think Simmonds should make the team fine but throw out a better name than Pierre "Big For Nothing" Engvall. Robertson, Brooks, hell even Gabriel if only because he's younger I'd accept as making the team before for Simmonds. The Giraffe shouldn't be considered for a roster spot at all, we've already got a better version of him in Mikheyev, and Ilya at least kills penalties.
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This is probably the roster imo, although i think they send Sandin to the A and possibly carry an extra forward, or keep Menell as the 7th so he doesn't get claimed off waivers
 
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Ahh, remember the good ole days when the mere mention that Lil might not be an NHL regular for 4-5 years post draft was considered bashing. If you even suggested he needed some seasoning, it was normal, it was met with scathing commentary.
 
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Dreakmur said:
I agree, but Dubas loves his guys. Holl and Sandin are his guys. Liljegren isn't.
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Lily also has some pricey bonuses that could complicate the cap situation that don't apply to other guys like Sandin.

It's unfortunate but such is the nature of the cap era of the NHL
 
Jimmy Firecracker said:
I think Kampf has 3C on lock.

Ritchie Matthews Marner
Bunting Tavares Nylander
Kerfoot Kampf Kase
Mikheyev Spezza Simmonds


Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin

No cap room to carry an extra forward.



Wholeheartedly agree. If you don't think Simmonds should make the team fine but throw out a better name than Pierre "Big For Nothing" Engvall. Robertson, Brooks, hell even Gabriel if only because he's younger I'd accept as making the team before for Simmonds. The Giraffe shouldn't be considered for a roster spot at all, we've already got a better version of him in Mikheyev, and Ilya at least kills penalties.
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Ho Sang maybe?
 
Bobby Mac on for first time, asked about Leafs moves and how he sees the year. Thinks Reilly likely is gone, just like Hyman. When asked if they’re better, he said probably slightly worse on paper but who knows.
 
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DarkKnight said:
Ahh, remember the good ole days when the mere mention that Lil might not be an NHL regular for 4-5 years post draft was considered bashing. If you even suggested he needed some seasoning, it was normal, it was met with scathing commentary.
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I think I might have been one of the bashers especisally in 2017 and 2018. I remember a poster here who got destroyed for that take, his name was VinceVega I believe. I thought he was being crazy wrong, and his take was Lilijgren wouldn't be a top 4D until his D+4 year, which he got flamed on.

Lilijgren is in his D+5 and will likely be on the bottom pairing defender should he make the team. People definitely fell into his pre-draft hype and had wrong expectations thinking he'd be a McAvoy-level player. He should still become a top 4 RHD but it'll be in his D+6 year if we get him into the lineup this yea consistently

That guy VinceVega was right on Lilijgren but horribly wrong on Marner. He argued multiple times he'd be a bust and in the 16/17 preseason shitted on marner saying he wouldn't be a top 6er or much more until a year or two from then, before we saw Marner put 61 in 77 as a 19 year old rookei
 
DarkKnight said:
Bobby Mac on for the first time, asked about Leaf's moves and how he sees the year. Thinks Reilly likely is gone, just like Hyman. When asked if they’re better, he said probably slightly worse on paper but who knows.
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Ma if/when Rielly leaves it'll probably be the saddest day for me as a leaf fan. I only became a leaf fan in the 2010/2011 season, and he along with Gardiner were the two guys I was most hyped/excited for. Rielly is a beautiful and great player. Going to suck seeing him walk but its understandable if money doesn't make sense and the pressure is too high with results not being there
 
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