GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II
- Thread starter uncleben
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I think he played well enough to earn an NHL shot with a team desperate for offense (I'm looking you Kraken).
I think they are loaded already in the AHL to be honest. Especially if the Amadios of the world clear waivers. I imagine theyll want to keep some spots open for kids.
SDA opened my eyes this pre-season and especially tonight. I was high on him when we drafted him, but I wasn’t nearly as high on him the last year or so.
He’s re-established himself in my eyes. The kid is going to play in the NHL. He has borderline elite vision and hands, and his attention to detail when skating back below the puck and battling were extremely good signs. I think his skating has improved as well. I think a season in the AHL is needed, but I’m back on the wagon. Kid is gonna play.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,535
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He's not small anymore either, he was regularly going into traffic with the puck and coming out with it. I think he's the Marlies 1C within a month.
ottomaddox
Registered User
Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Engvall - Spezza
Simmonds
Brooks
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
This roster is $500,616 over the cap. Meaning, we need to shed a contract.
Options:
Engvall - Salary $1,250,000
Simmonds - Salary $900,000
Mikheyev - Salary $1,645,000
If we trade Mikky, we can open up enough cap to allow another callup most likely a Sandin/Lilly/ Semyonov. If we trade Engvall, we can shed enough salary to get under the cap but we still fall roughly $10k short of 750K and being able to call up anyone else from the minors. Both Sandin/Lilly/Semyonov have contracts that need us to clear at least $825,000. If we shed Simmonds, it is a horrible look for the team and we also cannot call up another guy because of insufficient cap space.
So just going by the math, either they are going to lose Brooks to waivers or Mikky is about to get dealt, unless we have a serious enough injury to Dermott to buy us a little bit of time. After which we can probably dangle off Engvall to a different team.
I personally am a big Mikheyev supporter but at the cost of Brooks, I would much rather pass.
NUCLEAR option: Waive Spezza and let him mentor the kids in practice and fill the press box. We can reactivate him after we accrue enough space or if there is an injury. Spezza can easily pass through waivers because he can threaten to retire as he did last season. I feel like it's a big sacrifice for Spezza to make and quite selfish of the team to do so, but if he's willing to really be a team guy, we can escape cap hell with that one move.
With Spezza in the press box after clearing waivers, our lineup looks something like this;
Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Brooks - Engvall
Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
I really like Brooks and I think he fits this team like a glove with his ability to move up and down the lineup. Kase is an injury risk and I think having Mikh/Engvall/Brooks there and able to move up is a good insurance policy.
----------------------
If we want to get really creative with the cap, we should move Kerfoot after building up his value a little bit and I think we can easily get a 2nd round pick/ decent prospect + in return.
Without Kerfoot, we can also give a shot to Sandin/ Lilly and have a good amount of depth.
Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Semyonov - Brooks
Spezza
Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Sandin
Liljegren
Campbell
Mrazek
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Engvall - Spezza
Simmonds
Brooks
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
This roster is $500,616 over the cap. Meaning, we need to shed a contract.
Options:
Engvall - Salary $1,250,000
Simmonds - Salary $900,000
Mikheyev - Salary $1,645,000
If we trade Mikky, we can open up enough cap to allow another callup most likely a Sandin/Lilly/ Semyonov. If we trade Engvall, we can shed enough salary to get under the cap but we still fall roughly $10k short of 750K and being able to call up anyone else from the minors. Both Sandin/Lilly/Semyonov have contracts that need us to clear at least $825,000. If we shed Simmonds, it is a horrible look for the team and we also cannot call up another guy because of insufficient cap space.
So just going by the math, either they are going to lose Brooks to waivers or Mikky is about to get dealt, unless we have a serious enough injury to Dermott to buy us a little bit of time. After which we can probably dangle off Engvall to a different team.
I personally am a big Mikheyev supporter but at the cost of Brooks, I would much rather pass.
NUCLEAR option: Waive Spezza and let him mentor the kids in practice and fill the press box. We can reactivate him after we accrue enough space or if there is an injury. Spezza can easily pass through waivers because he can threaten to retire as he did last season. I feel like it's a big sacrifice for Spezza to make and quite selfish of the team to do so, but if he's willing to really be a team guy, we can escape cap hell with that one move.
With Spezza in the press box after clearing waivers, our lineup looks something like this;
Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Brooks - Engvall
Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
I really like Brooks and I think he fits this team like a glove with his ability to move up and down the lineup. Kase is an injury risk and I think having Mikh/Engvall/Brooks there and able to move up is a good insurance policy.
----------------------
If we want to get really creative with the cap, we should move Kerfoot after building up his value a little bit and I think we can easily get a 2nd round pick/ decent prospect + in return.
Without Kerfoot, we can also give a shot to Sandin/ Lilly and have a good amount of depth.
Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Kase
Mikheyev - Semyonov - Brooks
Spezza
Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell
Sandin
Liljegren
Campbell
Mrazek
Last edited:
DopeyFish
Mitchy McDangles
- Nov 17, 2009
- 6,776
- 4,937
i think putting holl on waivers is best idea
he's overpaid by $1.4 million
he's overpaid by $1.4 million
I think if Dubas was really bold enough and not blindly loyal to Holl, we can probably trade him for a decent return. We can at least recoup a 2nd/3rd rd pick for him seeing as he has 2 more years remaining at $2 mil and has shown to be able to come into a top 4 role.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
What do the Leafs gain by trading a top 4 D man?
I think you would be pretty surprised at what a lot of GM's would pay for Justin Holl.
Much needed cap flexibility. Not losing Brooks/ Mikky/ Engvall. And most importantly, the ability to let Lilly/ Sandin crack the big team full time. While being able to give a guy like Menell a shot who has earned it by his play in the preseason and offers a much better offensive skill set than anyone not named Morgan Rielly.
I think not having Holl makes this team a lot more dynamic and versatile. Keeping him will restrict us big time. But Holl is the golden child of Dubas/ Keefe as they basically groomed him as a project player from their Marlies days. They also lost a guy like Jared McCann for nothing by protecting Justin Holl this offseason and going 8 F/D 1 G instead of keeping 7F 3D 1G. It's pretty stupid to be this loyal to a player, especially one that hasn't proven to really move the needle. He's had some really good play at times but overall, I just think we have better options waiting in the wings and we do not have the cap space to experiment with a guy who still has a lot of inconsistencies in the top 4 (especially away from Muzzin).
If Lilly got to play full-time alongside Muzzin, I think he could be a much better player than Justin Holl has been. We could have a legitimate shutdown pair where guys have good offensive instincts and passing abilities.
CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
- 49,735
- 59,495
so he should be making less than league minimum? it's hard to believe your idea is the best when it's based on something so ridiculous
DopeyFish
Mitchy McDangles
- Nov 17, 2009
- 6,776
- 4,937
I really think by the start of next season, Kerfoot and Holl will not be members of this team. I think we sacrifice them to retain Rielly (or go for a big UFA D) and pay up the RFAs. Mikky probably walks too and we have a ton of good young players waiting in the wings. The lineup could have some major turnover.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Imo Holl's impact is way bigger than any of those depth forwards
And then if he's gone the team relies on 3 rookies for the 5-7 D spots which is probably not ideal for a team trying to be as competitive as possible (even thought I do like all 3 rookies)
He's earned his way to the NHL and he has played well. Let's not discount his body of work. I just think with circumstances the way they are and the options we now have, Holl becomes a redundant player with much cheaper internal options at our disposal. Both Sandin and Lilly or even Dermott can probably take those minutes next to Muzz and adjust into the role fairly quickly. Holl is the puck carrier on that line and allows Muzzin to be the defensive guy in that pair. Sandin/Dermy can do what Holl does quite easily and arguably as well/better. Putting Lilly there allows us to form a legit shutdown pair that can still move the puck. The versatility of that position is what makes me curious.
As a whole no. But Holl does have stretches of games where he looks elite. For a soon to be 30 year old D-man though, that's a big gamble.
For the record, I don't care if Mikky gets dealt. I just don't want to lose Brooks. I think he's got bottom 6 C talent that can produce and move up and down the lineup. I think he can be what Kerfoot is supposed to be. Kerfoot has skill and speed but very questionable hockey IQ. Brooks has more skill and very good hockey IQ, he just lacks the speed.
DopeyFish
Mitchy McDangles
- Nov 17, 2009
- 6,776
- 4,937
Holl would be sacrificed for Liljegren and Menell.
I wouldn't dump him just for Fs, there is flexibility there.
Leafs have an opportunity to drastically improve their D but keeping fringe Fs won't be helpful
I agree. Holl will be the Leafs new whipping boy when people see he can't keep up. Mennel, yes please
I think he is $2 million over paid. Mennel is better, Lillygren is better, Sandin is better. If they cut Mennel loose over Holl, then favoritism will be at work if that happens and so much for putting the best team on the ice.
If they are putting the best team on the ice, it doesn't include Simmonds. So let's start there
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