GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II

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Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Mennell

Campbell
Mrazek

We gonna need all these guys come playoff time.
 
When do they announce our waived players, I’m assuming Joey anderson, Gabriel, Seney, Amadio, Biega, Dahlstrom, Hutch all get waived tonight
 
I think he is $2 million over paid. Mennel is better, Lillygren is better, Sandin is better. If they cut Mennel loose over Holl, then favoritism will be at work if that happens and so much for putting the best team on the ice.
None of those players are better, and none of them have shown consistent play to be warranted even a bottom pairing spot, whilst Holl has looked good on the 2nd pairing. Some of these takes lol.
 
I agree with most of this but they sacrificed McCann to save Kerfoot.

so what ... they only did that for asset management , the lowest cost they could math out was hallander and a pick.

if they knew liligren manell and sandin all look amazing, they would have protected 7 prowards and 3 dman and let holl or dermott go
 
None of those players are better, and none of them have shown consistent play to be warranted even a bottom pairing spot, whilst Holl has looked good on the 2nd pairing. Some of these takes lol.
Yes, Holl can be a good player sometimes, but he cost us more games from being in the lineup. He doesn't use his size enough, he is slow on the ice....and between the ears. Mennel brings us a more dynamic player, fast enough to catch up to mistakes. Holl is dumb as a brick.
 
so what ... they only did that for asset management , the lowest cost they could math out was hallander and a pick.

if they knew liligren manell and sandin all look amazing, they would have protected 7 prowards and 3 dman and let holl or dermott go
Yes and no. Sometimes you just have to drink the sudsy head. Every now and then a flower blossoms. If you love something, set it free....the end. Lets be the best we can be, no favoritism.
 
If they are putting the best team on the ice, it doesn't include Simmonds. So let's start there :D

Simmonds brings an element of physicality that we don't have in the lineup otherwise. He also is a vet and a big locker room voice and granted he's not deserving of a spot based on his play, it's his off-ice contributions that will keep him there. Holl doesn't carry the same weight and costs $1.1 mil more than we need to be able to ice a more competitive roster. Ideal world both Holl and Simmonds are not in the lineup. If we're going purely by the play of the boys in the preseason, a guy like Semyonov to me has earned a roster spot way more than a Mikky or Simmonds.
 
I move Kerfoot before Holl in a heartbeat - assuming their values are fairly similar.
Why not both? I still find it absolutely mind-boggling that we traded for a Jared McCann who is easily an upgrade on anyone we have on the left side and we lost him to protect Justin f***ing Holl. I'm usually not one to bash Dubas but that was an absolutely boneheaded move.
 
When do they announce our waived players, I’m assuming Joey anderson, Gabriel, Seney, Amadio, Biega, Dahlstrom, Hutch all get waived tonight

Hutch was waived earlier today.

I think there will be a number of guys who get waived tomorrow. Officially announced at 2PM but might get a release earlier in the day. They may keep a couple guys they intend to waive until last minute to minimize the chances of a claim too, but I expect a number of them will just get waived tomorrow.
 
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Why not both? I still find it absolutely mind-boggling that we traded for a Jared McCann who is easily an upgrade on anyone we have on the left side and we lost him to protect Justin f***ing Holl.

you under estimate the value of a right shot dman who can play 20+ min a game against top competition.
you also cant play hindsight 20/20 and pretend you knew liligren has finally made it to the nhl. which would have left us a gigantic hole on the right side without holl
 
you under estimate the value of a right shot dman who can play 20+ min a game against top competition.
you also cant play hindsight 20/20 and pretend you knew liligren has finally made it to the nhl. which would have left us a gigantic hole on the right side without holl
I did know Lilly was ready. Lilly has been ready for his shot for almost 1.5 years now. With all due respect to Justin Holl, he is what he is because of Jake Muzzin. Without Muzzin, Justin Holl has been an absolute tire fire and an AHL caliber guy. If you're slotting in Lilly, who is as good a skater, more physical, better defensively, and better passer, I think you're getting upgrades across the board. Especially if he's playing with Muzzin. Lilly complements Muzz's game a hell of a lot more than Holl does. Muzzin likes to roam around and jump up in the play and so does Holl. Lilly knows when to stay back and when to take the ice. He doesn't go wandering up ice like Holl often does.

Justin Holl has held down his role in the top 4 because his only real competition has been Travis Dermott. And Dermott being a lefty on the right side has struggled in the past and just as a whole has struggled a good amount with injuries and progression. Sandin is the other guy who has the potential to be a better fit but once again, he has been plagued by injuries. Lilly would've easily filled in the spot but has never been given the shot because he has performance bonuses in his contract and we didn't have enough cap space to let him play up for the longest time.
 
you under estimate the value of a right shot dman who can play 20+ min a game against top competition.
you also cant play hindsight 20/20 and pretend you knew liligren has finally made it to the nhl. which would have left us a gigantic hole on the right side without holl

he plays 20 minutes

he doesn't play those 20 minutes very well... constantly beat on the boards, losing possession, giving opposing teams a clear shot to the net in the slot due to his poor foot speed.

except against McDavid, so we're burning $2 million to maybe win a couple games against Edmonton for which we are previously already heavily favored to win.
 
I'm not sure exactly how long it would take, but if management wants to keep Brooks and Menell, we can roll:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Kerfoot
Kase - Brooks - Spezza
Simmonds
(Unsure about line combos)

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Menell

624k capspace.

Call-up Liljegren or Sandin once capspace has accrued (624 -> nearly 900k, I think it'll take ~15 games?).


While possible, I expect management might just make a call with who they believe might make it through waivers/who they like more and end up probably losing one of Menell or Brooks to keep Sandin and/or Liljegren in the NHL.
 
No real surprises there. SDA looked great - Gusev wasn't bad, but there is just a massive logjam of forwards in this organization right now.
I’m very on the fence about SDA.
His flaws versus his apparent ability to play ‘up’ with and against better competition.
May end up a good complementary player.
 
I don’t think there is much question personally that Matthews is 1, but Marner would definitely be 2 and not far behind.

Marner just brings more to the table...Higher hockey IQ, overall skills better, plays pk, pp. Not the goal scorer like Matthews and that's just it. I see Matthews more one dimensional. I'm predicting Marner has more points over Matthews this year. Just my opinion.
 
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