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GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II

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Watched a bit of last night's game. I know it's not the normal group but the PP still looks extremely disorganized. And it seems they're super-duper doubling down on the drop pass. Pretty sure I saw a guy drop it all the way back from the opposing blue line to a defender starting at the hash marks in front of Campbell. IMO, *all* of their pre-season should be dedicated to developing a better PP. It's absolutely what sank them against Montreal.
 
The guy is clearly projecting what he wants to see onto the team. Saying our goaltending is suspect is laughable. Both our goalies have shown they are quality goaltenders if they can stay healthy. There is a question of health, sure, but you can’t just assume injuries to call us suspect. Our defense is pretty deep and was one of the better ones last season. And I’ve said this all summer, but on paper, this forward group is at least as good as last year with potential to be a fair deal better with more useful role players & those who offer other styles of play
 
Ritchie-Matthews-Marner (should be a better line than with Thornton, by a decent margin)
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander (ditto Vesey)
Kerfoot-Kampf-Kase (high speed, high energy, strong two way)
Engvall-Brooks-Spezza/Simmonds (should take advantage of other 4th lines, load manage the old boys)

Clean, simple solution. I don't get why they're going to jump through hoops and expose themselves to major waiver risk for one year of Mikheyev.
 
So looking outside the core 4 up front.

Players here last year that are still here:
Spezza, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Brooks, Engvall, Robertson

Players out:
Hyman, Thornton, Vesey, Barabanov, Petan. Maybe include Galchenyuk.

Not including Foligno, or Nash given they both hardly played for us and weren’t even healthy most of when they did.

Players in:
Ritchie, Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Ho-Sang, Gusev, Semyonov, Amadio, Gabriel

Based on accomplishment to date, Hyman is obviously the best player on either list, but IMO the “players in” list is noticeably better on average and bring more variety of qualities to the team
 
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4thline said:
Ritchie-Matthews-Marner (should be a better line than with Thornton, by a decent margin)
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander (ditto Vesey)
Kerfoot-Kampf-Kase (high speed, high energy, strong two way)
Engvall-Brooks-Spezza/Simmonds (should take advantage of other 4th lines, load manage the old boys)

Clean, simple solution. I don't get why they're going to jump through hoops and expose themselves to major waiver risk for one year of Mikheyev.
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It's Hyman that Ritchie is replacing, not Thornton, unless you're just referring to the beginning when Hyman was injured.
 
The Hanging Jowl said:
Watched a bit of last night's game. I know it's not the normal group but the PP still looks extremely disorganized. And it seems they're super-duper doubling down on the drop pass. Pretty sure I saw a guy drop it all the way back from the opposing blue line to a defender starting at the hash marks in front of Campbell. IMO, *all* of their pre-season should be dedicated to developing a better PP. It's absolutely what sank them against Montreal.
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I would say wipe your mind of what you've seen so far. Tonight, most of the big boys are in.

Not worth judging a powerplay that had Pierre Engvall and Josh Ho Sang on the point last night.

Very interested in seeing Marner at the bumper spot and Nylander on the top unit as a shooting threat.

Isaac Nootin said:
It's Hyman that Ritchie is replacing, not Thornton, unless you're just referring to the beginning when Hyman was injured.
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I would say Bunting will actually be playing the Hyman role this year - moved up and down the lineup to where a line needs some hustle and opportunistic scoring. I think he will be a nice replacement.

Sypher04 said:
So looking outside the core 4 up front.

Players here last year that are still here:
Spezza, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Brooks, Engvall, Robertson

Players out:
Hyman, Thornton, Vesey, Barabanov, Petan. Maybe include Galchenyuk.

Not including Foligno, or Nash given they both hardly played for us and weren’t even healthy most of when they did.

Players in:
Ritchie, Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Ho-Sang, Gusev, Semyonov, Amadio, Gabriel

Based on accomplishment to date, Hyman is obviously the best player on either list, but IMO the “players in” list is noticeably better on average and bring more variety of qualities to the team
Click to expand...


One thing you have to love about the players in list is that they all love to skate and grind. Lots of drive. None are aging vets or journeymen that need to be put in a very specific position.
 
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Isaac Nootin said:
People read far too much into preseason, both ways.
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Definitely. But to say the Leafs goaltending is suspect and then to also in the same breathe say Ullmark is a sure fire # 1 is ridiculous. Ullmark has been struggling to the point that the Boston writers are thinking Swayman will start the season as the starter.

Mrazek and Campbell have both looked very good.
 
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Sypher04 said:
So looking outside the core 4 up front.

Players here last year that are still here:
Spezza, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Brooks, Engvall, Robertson

Players out:
Hyman, Thornton, Vesey, Barabanov, Petan. Maybe include Galchenyuk.

Not including Foligno, or Nash given they both hardly played for us and weren’t even healthy most of when they did.

Players in:
Ritchie, Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Ho-Sang, Gusev, Semyonov, Amadio, Gabriel

Based on accomplishment to date, Hyman is obviously the best player on either list, but IMO the “players in” list is noticeably better on average and bring more variety of qualities to the team
Click to expand...

I think a better comparison is our best line up or playoff roster from last year and potential replacements. Comparing Ho-Sang to Barabanov for example is useless, 1 of them was gone and 1 of them might not even make the team.


So you can compare
Old vs New
Hyman vs Ritchie
Foligno vs Bunting
Thornton vs Kase
Galchenyuk vs Kampf

I think that's a worse top end but a better low end.
 
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bbgobie said:
I think a better comparison is our best line up or playoff roster from last year and potential replacements. Comparing Ho-Sang to Barabanov for example is useless, 1 of them was gone and 1 of them might not even make the team.


So you can compare
Old vs New
Hyman vs Ritchie
Foligno vs Bunting
Thornton vs Kase
Galchenyuk vs Kampf

I think that's a worse top end but a better low end.
Click to expand...

Player to player comparisons dont matter, what is more important is the style of each of those players.

Ritchie provides physicality in the top 6 which we never had.

Bunting provides much the same as Hyman, but also isnt afraid to be a pest or get dirty which is another new element in the top 6.

Kampf if a shutdown, PK specialist with some untapped offensive potential which is what we were hoping to have in Foligno that never materialized.

Kase provides much needed offence on the 3rd line which weve been missing since Kapanen.

Even if player for player is a downgrade, a lot of the "players in" list check boxes weve been missing.
 
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justashadowof said:
I'm not sure if he's a lock but conventional hockey wisdom is that your matured prospect who showed up to camp ready to play, and is no longer waiver exempt, makes the team over depth free agents.
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Ya Brooks better make it. He has taken advantage of every opportunity and has been one of their best players during camp/preseason.
 
bbgobie said:
I think a better comparison is our best line up or playoff roster from last year and potential replacements. Comparing Ho-Sang to Barabanov for example is useless, 1 of them was gone and 1 of them might not even make the team.


So you can compare
Old vs New
Hyman vs Ritchie
Foligno vs Bunting
Thornton vs Kase
Galchenyuk vs Kampf

I think that's a worse top end but a better low end.
Click to expand...

I disagree with including Foligno for several reasons. First, he hardly played for us at all, and after the first 3 games after he arrived, he never did so healthy. By name he looks decent in a lineup, but he was completely ineffective most of his time here; including the playoffs. Also, this roster today could also see deadline acquisitions, just like Foligno was. So, to me, opening lineup for the season is a better comparison point.

My point for including as many as I did was to show our improved depth, as well as the full scope of additions. I have no issue with focusing on just the likely NHL opening lineup of forwards though.

Lastly Hyman was awful in the playoffs. But that said, he and Thornton split the year fairly closely to even on the Matthews-Marner line. The line was just as efffective without Hyman, which certainly implies his impact on the line wasn’t nearly as great as people believe. I think Ritchie can slot in there, and while he may get less points overall than Hyman did in the same role, the overall line impact likely won’t change dramatically.

Beyond the first line, we’ve improved at every one of those wing positions moving down the lineup, while also adding elements to those lines that should prove useful. Also the addition of a shutdown center, who can take on tough matchups and big pk minutes is a huge move for us
 
Stephen said:
Nothing from Buffalo is a sure thing.
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How many players leave Buffalo and truly thrive, maybe ROR? The narrative of "He's only bad because the Sabres are terrible" is constantly spewed but it feels like players come out of Buffalo as poor as they went in.

I suppose you could argue Lehner too, but that may be more the fact he was able to overcome some of his internal battles more than anything else.
 
dangomon said:
How many players leave Buffalo and truly thrive, maybe ROR? The narrative of "He's only bad because the Sabres are terrible" is constantly spewed but it feels like players come out of Buffalo as poor as they went in.

I suppose you could argue Lehner too, but that may be more the fact he was able to overcome some of his internal battles more than anything else.
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Yeah I don’t want to naysay Ullmark, but in the grand scheme of things Mrazek is a way more accomplished NHL goalie than him. But because it’s Boston there’s an aura of “sure thing.”
 
IPS said:
What does he mean "up and down"? Brodie was the most consistent Leafs D last year. This guy doesn't have a clue.
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An argument between two twitter reporters who'd probably get heart palpitations from the exertion of lacing up hockey skates.
 
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