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Training Camp 2023

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sa cyred said:
Having a good day? That's nice. I'm here to get you to read a THW article that should make you REAL happy.

Flyers Having Disappointing Season Would Be a Disaster
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Don't think Briere loses sleep either way.

Either young players step up and some veterans improve their trade value, or you draft high and dump some underachievers to make room for younger prospects.

So their idea of being "competitive" is more a matter of style of play than committing resources to try and compete. They don't want young players to play out the string, waiting for a bunch of high draft picks to show up in a few years. Just b/c they lack talent is no reason to tolerate half-hearted play.
 
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deadhead said:
No, if a prospect doesn't clearly show they're better than replacement level, it won't hurt them to start at LHV. We're not looking to add young players, we're looking to add GOOD young players.
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I believe this is the answer the Flyers would give you almost verbatim. It’s also the best possible explanation of how they’re lost.

All NHL decisions are made for the short term. You’re trying to win under a hard salary cap. It’s never about extracting value from ELCs or powering through an adjustment period. It’s how much can we get away with before we ruin a player?

I will scream until I’m blue in the face that the main lesson from the Hextall era is not to assume competence from getting the easy moves correct. I fear that will fall on deaf ears every single time the GM is changed.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
I believe this is the answer the Flyers would give you almost verbatim. It’s also the best possible explanation of how they’re lost.

All NHL decisions are made for the short term. You’re trying to win under a hard salary cap. It’s never about extracting value from ELCs or powering through an adjustment period. It’s how much can we get away with before we ruin a player?

I will scream until I’m blue in the face that the main lesson from the Hextall era is not to assume competence from getting the easy moves correct. I fear that will fall on deaf ears every single time the GM is changed.
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Don't sweat the little shit when the big stuff is screwed up.
Right now, there are only two NHL eligible prospects you can project as top 6/top 4, Foerster and Andrae. Foerster is close to a lock and Andrae will start at some point this season.
Brink is a ??? who needs AHL time to see how good he is when healthy.
Lycksell, Desnoyers, Avon, Wisdom, Brown, Tuomaala are bottom six at best.
Zamula, Attard, Ginning, Grans, Samson are 3rd pair candidates.
Ersson is backup goalie material who might be a starter down the road.

Now a couple might surprise 2-3 years down the road, but this season there simply is no urgency to get these kids on NHL ice.
 
deadhead said:
Don't sweat the little shit when the big stuff is screwed up.
Right now, there are only two NHL eligible prospects you can project as top 6/top 4, Foerster and Andrae. Foerster is close to a lock and Andrae will start at some point this season.
Brink is a ??? who needs AHL time to see how good he is when healthy.
Lycksell, Desnoyers, Avon, Wisdom, Brown, Tuomaala are bottom six at best.
Zamula, Attard, Ginning, Grans, Samson are 3rd pair candidates.
Ersson is backup goalie material who might be a starter down the road.

Now a couple might surprise 2-3 years down the road, but this season there simply is no urgency to get these kids on NHL ice.
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Most of a GM's job is the little stuff. The back of the roster where the most time is spent.
 
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kudymen said:
I don't think anything matters vol. 2023
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71kVtzW8iOL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
Most of a GM's job is the little stuff. The back of the roster where the most time is spent.
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And the back of the roster are the guys who are marinated in the AHL.
Go look at winning teams and see how many back of the roster guys spent 2-3 years in the AHL.

You think Gauther will sniff LHV? Bonk might spend half a season there.
 
deadhead said:
And the back of the roster are the guys who are marinated in the AHL.
Go look at winning teams and see how many back of the roster guys spent 2-3 years in the AHL.

You think Gauther will sniff LHV? Bonk might spend half a season there.
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You're 95% of the way to agreeing with me. It's so close I can feel it.

Now if we can just drop the look at X or Y team thing instead of focusing on the Flyers, I think we can get there. What Tampa or Toronto or your choice of teams did and had it work out does not mean that it's the only way to do things. What Carolina does is materially different than what Toronto did. Both largely worked. The key, as in the dopey tanking debate, is to execute your plan well.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
Yes there are. I listed a quick few for you. This team is famous for grotesquely misusing and deteriorating players who go elsewhere and do better. Unless they've been ruined to the point of no return, something else the team loves doing.
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that list was bunk. As I pointed out to you.
 
JojoTheWhale said:
You're 95% of the way to agreeing with me. It's so close I can feel it.

Now if we can just drop the look at X or Y team thing instead of focusing on the Flyers, I think we can get there. What Tampa or Toronto or your choice of teams did and had it work out does not mean that it's the only way to do things. What Carolina does is materially different than what Toronto did. Both largely worked. The key, as in the dopey tanking debate, is to execute your plan well.
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Well, like I said, don't sweat the small shit.

Seeler and Staal don't bother me b/c there's no commitment. Even Hathaway is easily moved. This ain't Deslauriers and Weise on 4 year deals.

I have no problem marinating the end of roster guys, I'll watch the AHL games that are televised and hope some of them "pop out" at me, that they're taking a step up. I think for many, they're more likely to develop skills in the AHL than in bottom roster roles in the NHL.

Foerster and Andrae are a different matter, Foerster needs to play, and Andrae, if he's not ready in camp, shouldn't require more than a few months to acclimate to NA hockey.

Attard is my wildcard, he has NHL body and skills, but last year was clueless on defense. Don't know if he has a low IQ or just got set back playing Rover in college.
 
deadhead said:
Well, like I said, don't sweat the small shit.

Seeler and Staal don't bother me b/c there's no commitment. Even Hathaway is easily moved. This ain't Deslauriers and Weise on 4 year deals.

I have no problem marinating the end of roster guys, I'll watch the AHL games that are televised and hope some of them "pop out" at me, that they're taking a step up. I think for many, they're more likely to develop skills in the AHL than in bottom roster roles in the NHL.

Foerster and Andrae are a different matter, Foerster needs to play, and Andrae, if he's not ready in camp, shouldn't require more than a few months to acclimate to NA hockey.

Attard is my wildcard, he has NHL body and skills, but last year was clueless on defense. Don't know if he has a low IQ or just got set back playing Rover in college.
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The "small shit" is what makes or breaks teams.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
It wasn't. Being in denial doesn't make reality false.

You understand the team is badly run. It is weird you refuse to recognize a badly managed team also manages their players badly.
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who is in denial?

Both things are not exclusive. You named players. I gave you an explanation on why you were incorrect. You just don't want to believe it is true is all.
 
blackjackmulligan said:
who is in denial?

Both things are not exclusive. You named players. I gave you an explanation on why you were incorrect. You just don't want to believe it is true is all.
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I listed players who did better after leaving. We also have players who have stated the team's anti-skill slant is detrimental and they got better when they ignored it. That's without even getting into the constant misuse.
 
Beef Invictus said:
Nah. You didn't.

Even then, since your stance has traditionally been "no players have done better after leaving," that doesn't work out for your opinion that the Flyers haven't made any developmental errors for the last decade.
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Vorobyev did very well in the KHL last year .
 
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Beef Invictus said:
Nah. You didn't.

Even then, since your stance has traditionally been "no players have done better after leaving," that doesn't work out for your opinion that the Flyers haven't made any developmental errors for the last decade.
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yeah I did. you just refuse to accept it. I mean PEB killed after he left the flyers. went from a career high of 14 with the flyers to 22. That is unreal when you break it down. NAK from 15 in 36 games to 22 in 67 games. Again he killed it. Actually did better on ppg basis while on the flyers. Your other examples just as bad or worse.
 
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