Training Camp 2023

[JojoTheWhale]

If a kid can't clearly beat out a mediocre veteran like Staal or Allison or Laczynski (at 26, they're now bottom six veterans like MacEwen last season), better that they start the season in the AHL.

Poehling at 24 really no different than say Lycksell at 24.

One of those players is 150+ games deep into his NHL career and you want me to just agree to this. It's absurd.

 

[deadhead]

And the other didn't break out until he was 22 in the SHL, then 23 in the AHL and still looked bad in his NHL cameo.

So which player has a brighter future?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And the other didn't break out until he was 22 in the SHL, then 23 in the AHL and still looked bad in his NHL cameo.

So which player has a brighter future?

All these years and you still don't understand that what I'm saying in almost all of these cases is that we don't know which player has the brighter future.

It's not look how smart I am. It's that this org continually makes up their mind about what players are and then fits them into those holes at all costs. No one hits above their expected outcomes by design. Until that changes, they're screwed.

Now even you, who can find a way to rationalize damn near anything they do, are telling me "ties go to the vets" and this is good actually. After a supposed regime change. Nothing EVER changes. This is who the Flyers are. They're not worth the time you or I spend on them.

 

[deadhead]

All these years and you still don't understand that what I'm saying in almost all of these cases is that we don't know which player has the brighter future.

It's not look how smart I am. It's that this org continually makes up their mind about what players are and then fits them into those holes at all costs. No one hits above their expected outcomes by design. Until that changes, they're screwed.

Now even you, who can find a way to rationalize damn near anything they do, are telling me "ties go to the vets" and this is good actually. After a supposed regime change. Nothing EVER changes. This is who the Flyers are. They're not worth the time you or I spend on them.

That was my point. Poehling is in the same boat with the prospects, he's still unproven as a starter, just has a better track record than some prospects his age - similar to Allison who flashed at 23, struggled with injuries at 24, and scored at a low 4th line rate at 25 despite playing with Hayes at center. It's not that you write them off, you write them in pencil.

Ties go to veterans b/c if you're no better than Staal, you're better off playing in the top 4 in LHV than getting fewer minutes than Seeler in Philly. And if you don't show improvement, the team should eventually use you as a AHL plus player or trade you for whatever they can get.

Starting in LHV in October isn't the end of the world, they have enough talent that a real prospect should be able to perform at a high level - and if you do so - the opportunity to win a job will present itself.

 

[Magua]

Let me stop you right there: there is no such thing as a “tie” in evaluating players. You’re just saying you/they/we don’t know and need more information. So, in the event of uncertainty, always choose the player with all the information. Sounds foolproof.

 

[deadhead]

Let me stop you right there: there is no such thing as a “tie” in evaluating players. You’re just saying you/they/we don’t know and need more information. So, in the event of uncertainty, always choose the player with all the information. Sounds foolproof.

No, if a prospect doesn't clearly show they're better than replacement level, it won't hurt them to start at LHV. We're not looking to add young players, we're looking to add GOOD young players.

 

[Tripod]

Every year, same horse shit.

"If a young guy can't beat out shit vet, he doesn't deserve to play".

Vet "wins" job.

Excuses on why

 

[deadhead]

Why do this team suck? Because they sign veterans to one year deals or because their young players haven't been that good? (and some bad luck).

Since 2008, top 6/top 4 drafted players.
2011: #8 Couts
2012: #78 Ghost (from 2015-2017, after that more of a third pair guy)
2014: #17 Sanheim, [#138 Lindblom hat a shot at top 6 until cancer]
2015: #7 Provorov, #24 TK
2016: #48 Hart
2017: [#27 Frost, #137 Cates, jury out on both, Cates may end up 2LW]
2018: #14 Farabee [#143 Ersson, starter down the road?]
2019: #14 York

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why do this team suck? Because they sign veterans to one year deals or because their young players haven't been that good? (and some bad luck).

Since 2008, top 6/top 4 drafted players.
2011: #8 Couts
2012: #78 Ghost (from 2015-2017, after that more of a third pair guy)
2014: #17 Sanheim, [#138 Lindblom hat a shot at top 6 until cancer]
2015: #7 Provorov, #24 TK
2016: #48 Hart
2017: [#27 Frost, #137 Cates, jury out on both, Cates may end up 2LW]
2018: #14 Farabee [#143 Ersson, starter down the road?]
2019: #14 York

are you saying they suck at drafting? Also you forgot the immortal NAK. I know not a top 6, all the flyers fault!!!

Cates imo will never be a top 6 on a real team. I like him and he has already exceeded expectations as a 5th rd pick.

At what point does Joel stop getting a pass? This is huge year for him imo.

No, if a prospect doesn't clearly show they're better than replacement level, it won't hurt them to start at LHV. We're not looking to add young players, we're looking to add GOOD young players.

no matter what they show they will not play over staal and seeler. You know this!!!

 

[deadhead]

People said that about Braun last season, who ended up only playing 47 games,

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If a kid can't clearly beat out a mediocre veteran like Staal or Allison or Laczynski (at 26, they're now bottom six veterans like MacEwen last season), better that they start the season in the AHL.

Poehling at 24 really no different than say Lycksell at 24.

There's a group of players who will play b/c of contracts, Couts, Atkinson, Risto, Sanheim, Laughton.
There's another group b/c you want to build their TDL value, Walker, Hathaway, Seeler.
And obviously no one is beating out TK, Farabee, Frost, Tippett and York.

Other than Foerster, there is no prospect in training camp who is clearly "NHL ready."
It's up to these kids to open eyes in practice, then carry that over to exhibition games.

well that is BS and your take which is fine. Don't you want to find out? Isn't that what rebuilding teams do?

People said that about Braun last season, who ended up only playing 47 games,

said what? just want to clear

 

[Magua]

People said that about Braun last season, who ended up only playing 47 games,

51 actually. I remember “people” said it was to build trade value that never came. But I’m not sure saying a player on his last legs ONLY playing 2/3 of the season is the defense you think it is. Cam York only played 54 games.

Seeler played 77/80 available games (he missed 2 games with an illness). That’s definitely where much of Braun’s usage went, without a trade in mind. And looking at this year’s roster, you can bet Seeler and Staal will be sucking up their share of usage.

 

[deadhead]

Seeler played 77 games because he was our most consistent D-man.

I don't think they planned to play him that much, it's just that Risto sucked to start the season, Sanheim and Provorov sucked most of the season, and York need a couple months in the AHL.

Almost every D-man played better paired with Seeler, and one reason I think they've kept him around is to pair with young D-men this season.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Forester chance of being on Flyers 9 games into season is less than 5%.

This roster is set already, camp means nothing g this year.

 

[BernieParent]

Seeler was 6th among D-men in minutes played. Now does that sound like he has a lock on a job, anymore than Hagg did?

In the interview with Briere, he says Torts is excited to be coaching young players, they just don't want to be forced to play a prospect who isn't NHL ready.

Last year they gave Bellows (24) a chance to win a job, Lemieux (26), after MacEwen (26).
All gone. So is J Cates (25). They were cycling through "last chance" players.
Hayes, TDA, Provorov, JVR, Brown and Braun are all gone.

Tippett, Cates and Frost all (23), were given starting jobs. As well as York (21).
And of course, TK (25), Farabee (22) and Hart (24) were established starters.

Allison (25) played 60 games, Laczynski (25) 32 games despite subpar play.
Zamula (22), played 14 games, Ersson (23) 12 games, Foerster (21) got a 8 game cameo, as did Lycksell (23).

"given"

 

[freakydallas13]

No, if a prospect doesn't clearly show they're better than replacement level, it won't hurt them to start at LHV. We're not looking to add young players, we're looking to add GOOD young players.

It's a real mystery why a team that stifles unknown young players in favor of known awful vets never goes anywhere and has spun it's tires in the mud aimlessly for over a decade.

 

[tnfrs]

It's a real mystery why a team that stifles unknown young players in favor of known awful vets never goes anywhere and has spun it's tires in the mud aimlessly for over a decade.

who was stifled that didnt have their chance?

 

[deadhead]

Foerster is close to a lock, basically he has to beat out Allison.
Foerster would have to fall on his face or Allison take his game up a couple notches to lose out.

Allison, Laczynski, Brooks, Marody et al are competing for the 13th/14th/1st call up slots.
The younger prospects will start or go to the AHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If a kid can't clearly beat out a mediocre veteran like Staal or Allison or Laczynski (at 26, they're now bottom six veterans like MacEwen last season), better that they start the season in the AHL.

Poehling at 24 really no different than say Lycksell at 24.

There's a group of players who will play b/c of contracts, Couts, Atkinson, Risto, Sanheim, Laughton.
There's another group b/c you want to build their TDL value, Walker, Hathaway, Seeler.
And obviously no one is beating out TK, Farabee, Frost, Tippett and York.

Other than Foerster, there is no prospect in training camp who is clearly "NHL ready."
It's up to these kids to open eyes in practice, then carry that over to exhibition games.

This assumes merit matters. It doesn't. Kids don't just lose ties, they lose matchups where they are the better option.

 

[Beef Invictus]

People said that about Braun last season, who ended up only playing 47 games,

Only?!?!?!?!?!

 

[blackjackmulligan]

who was stifled that didnt have their chance?

one Nicolas Aube-Kubel of course

​

 

[macleish1974]

All these years and you still don't understand that what I'm saying in almost all of these cases is that we don't know which player has the brighter future.

It's not look how smart I am. It's that this org continually makes up their mind about what players are and then fits them into those holes at all costs. No one hits above their expected outcomes by design. Until that changes, they're screwed.

Now even you, who can find a way to rationalize damn near anything they do, are telling me "ties go to the vets" and this is good actually. After a supposed regime change. Nothing EVER changes. This is who the Flyers are. They're not worth the time you or I spend on them.

Agreed........but the damnedest part of it all......I will still watch the games........still come here and be wowed by the comments of others.......make my own stupid comments.....AND find solace in OUR community of lost souls......but I refuse to wallow in self pity. I became a Flyers fan hell or high water.
Never said I was smart.

 

[deadhead]

If you look at the TC schedule, there are probably twice the scrimmages (or more) than exhbition games. So I suspect decisions are made given all the information available, not just what we see. Wouldn't surprise me if they deliberately overwork some young players to see how they respond when tired - what might not impress us in an exhibition game could look different behind the scenes.

Problem with presseason decision making is a young player with fresh legs and adrenaline pumping might fool you, only to find out that they're not the same over an 82 game season

 

[sa cyred]

Having a good day? That's nice. I'm here to get you to read a THW article that should make you REAL happy.

Flyers Having Disappointing Season Would Be a Disaster

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Having a good day? That's nice. I'm here to get you to read a THW article that should make you REAL happy.

Flyers Having Disappointing Season Would Be a Disaster

Pure f***ing delusional bullshit. Team even admitted it's in a rebuild and THIS is the article someone writes? f*** that shit.