Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[IPS]

Chris Johnson on Fan 590 right now says Marner is not being moved. Kind of thought he was kissing MM and KD's asses defending Marner. Rielly and Nylander could be moved. Hyman worth 5x5 but likely leaves for 6x6. The hosts are pissed because they think they should explore moving a player who has not scored in 18 playoff games since signing his deal and has more puck flip penalties than ES points. Bitching because other stars are scoring but Marner has not. They are as passionate as the fan base.

Lol this is why Dubas needs to be fired immediately. This simp is going to keep giving this core chances they don't deserve.

We need a GM who doesn't give a crap about any of these guys.

 

[Kurtz]

So looking at our salary structure...we're actually not in that terrible of shape. If we deal Kerfoot (I know he stepped up but lets not be prisoners of the moment) and Engvall, we free up $11m:

Freddy - $5m
Kerfoot - $3.5m
Simmonds - $1.5m
Engvall - $1.2m


For $11m we can bring in a good backup, give Hyman his raise, resign Foligno for say 1 year @ $3m, resign Nash for 700k for 4th line C, and still have enough left over to sign or trade for another physical bottom-6 player who can ideally play C for around $2m.

 

[Leaffan1991]

It's weird - because there isn't many players on this team I hate..... in the past, I'd scream get ____ outa here!!!!
This team has a culture issue (AGAIN) - and if it comes at the cost of the core, so be it.

I'd trade Marner (I have his jersey on my wall), Rielly (I was vouching for him for captain) and Engvall + Mikhayev (Because why not)

If we do nothing - I'm not sure I can stomach another full year with anticipation of another collapse in the playoffs with the same guys driving the bus.
1 (preferably 2) core pieces need to be moved in order to change the dynamic.



Marner + Rielly (extended)
for
Jones (extended) + Laine

(I realize Laine isn't some playoff beast that'll hit everything - but no one considered Nylander to up his game either)


Nylander - Matthews - Robertson
Hyman - Tavares - Laine
(Revamped bottom 6 - built for a grind)

Muzzin-Jones
Sandin-Brodie
Holl - Liljgren

Imagine that Powerplay

Willy, Tavares, Matthews, Laine and Jones.

lots of shooting threats, something we've been missing

 

[ToneDog]

So looking at our salary structure...we're actually not in that terrible of shape. If we deal Kerfoot (I know he stepped up but lets not be prisoners of the moment) and Engvall, we free up $11m:

Freddy - $5m
Kerfoot - $3.5m
Simmonds - $1.5m
Engvall - $1.2m


For $11m we can bring in a good backup, give Hyman his raise, resign Foligno for say 1 year @ $3m, resign Nash for 700k for 4th line C, and still have enough left over to sign or trade for another physical bottom-6 player who can ideally play C for around $2m.

I'd add Hyman because from listening to CJ this morning sounds like he will get more money elsewhere. If I am Holland, he is the exact player I want to play next to McJesus and I'd be willing to outbid the Leafs.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

So looking at our salary structure...we're actually not in that terrible of shape. If we deal Kerfoot (I know he stepped up but lets not be prisoners of the moment) and Engvall, we free up $11m:

Freddy - $5m
Kerfoot - $3.5m
Simmonds - $1.5m
Engvall - $1.2m


For $11m we can bring in a good backup, give Hyman his raise, resign Foligno for say 1 year @ $3m, resign Nash for 700k for 4th line C, and still have enough left over to sign or trade for another physical bottom-6 player who can ideally play C for around $2m.

Depends on what Hyman wants. He is not a 5+ mill player long term when he is playing in his late 20's/early 30's.

 

[Kurtz]

I'd add Hyman because from listening to CJ this morning sounds like he will get more money elsewhere. If I am Holland, he is the exact player I want to play next to McJesus and I'd be willing to outbid the Leafs.

Yeah, I think CJ is wrong on his 6x6 prediction. With the cap frozen and teams losing a shit ton of money the past 2 years I don't think owners will be eager to dish out $40 mil to non-stars. I think 5x5 is pretty much Hyman's ceiling.

We'll see though, who knows.

 

[Kurtz]

Depends on what Hyman wants. He is not a 5+ mill player long term when he is playing in his late 20's/early 30's.

Honestly, you're probably right. There likely aren't many teams who would give a 29 year old power forward with a career high of 41 points both term and north of $5m. In years past, those deals have turned sour real quick, and nowadays with money being tighter it's even less likely. 5 x 5 seems like the absolute ceiling to me, but we'll see.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Marner did what now????

This was on Mapleleafshotstove:


This all stems from Marner’s unwillingness to play the goal-line at 5v4, which you can fact-check by asking the right people. Toronto’s best version of their power play all season was Nylander and Marner rotating along the left wall, with one of them playing the goal-line as a passer. It gave the top unit more flexibility, opened up passing lanes, created more motion and unpredictability.
But their $11 million winger wasn’t willing to do it.

 

[Captain Crunch]

The first I've geard of this gossip.

What are the sources?

Why should we believe this?

This was on Mapleleafshotstove:
This all stems from Marner’s unwillingness to play the goal-line at 5v4, which you can fact-check by asking the right people. Toronto’s best version of their power play all season was Nylander and Marner rotating along the left wall, with one of them playing the goal-line as a passer. It gave the top unit more flexibility, opened up passing lanes, created more motion and unpredictability.
But their $11 million winger wasn’t willing to do it.

 

[ToneDog]

Honestly, you're probably right. There likely aren't many teams who would give a 29 year old power forward with a career high of 41 points both term and north of $5m. In years past, those deals have turned sour real quick, and nowadays with money being tighter it's even less likely. 5 x 5 seems like the absolute ceiling to me, but we'll see.

You can probably get two solid forwards for $5M with COVID discounts. Honestly I'd prefer to go that way instead of adding another player making too much money. It is one way to fight the flat cap.

 

[Kurtz]

This was on Mapleleafshotstove:
This all stems from Marner’s unwillingness to play the goal-line at 5v4, which you can fact-check by asking the right people. Toronto’s best version of their power play all season was Nylander and Marner rotating along the left wall, with one of them playing the goal-line as a passer. It gave the top unit more flexibility, opened up passing lanes, created more motion and unpredictability.
But their $11 million winger wasn’t willing to do it.

Ian Tulloch wrote that, and I think he's pretty reliable. But maybe the source he got this from is less reliable, because Marner was specifically asked about this today and he said that this was an outright lie. I'm inclined to believe Mitch on this one as it never made much sense to me that Mitch would refuse that particular request.

 

[dubplatepressure]

So looking at our salary structure...we're actually not in that terrible of shape. If we deal Kerfoot (I know he stepped up but lets not be prisoners of the moment) and Engvall, we free up $11m:

Freddy - $5m
Kerfoot - $3.5m
Simmonds - $1.5m
Engvall - $1.2m


For $11m we can bring in a good backup, give Hyman his raise, resign Foligno for say 1 year @ $3m, resign Nash for 700k for 4th line C, and still have enough left over to sign or trade for another physical bottom-6 player who can ideally play C for around $2m.

personally I immediately thought I'd rather keep Kerfoot than bring Freddie back.

 

[fahad203]

Depends on what Hyman wants. He is not a 5+ mill player long term when he is playing in his late 20's/early 30's.

He's gonna get 5 mill in open market and he knows it. He's going to get that much or even more
He's in his late 20s not 30s. Right around his prime

Reminds me a lot of Brendan Saad. Personally, I think he's gone anything less than 5.5

He's seen too much $shit and he may want to leave.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Honestly, you're probably right. There likely aren't many teams who would give a 29 year old power forward with a career high of 41 points both term and north of $5m. In years past, those deals have turned sour real quick, and nowadays with money being tighter it's even less likely. 5 x 5 seems like the absolute ceiling to me, but we'll see.

I'd say it has to be 4 years and south of 4 mill if he wants to stay here.

 

[Jozay]

6 years 4 mill aav puts the Leafs in range of what Hyman will get, while keeping his cap hit relatively low. Not saying the Leafs should do that.

 

[Kurtz]

personally I immediately thought I'd rather keep Kerfoot than bring Freddie back.

Oh, Freddie's gone for sure. But I think we'll have to move on from Kerfoot as well if we want to bring in some quality toughness on our bottom 6.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Ian Tulloch wrote that, and I think he's pretty reliable. But maybe the source he got this from is less reliable, because Marner was specifically asked about this today and he said that this was an outright lie. I'm inclined to believe Mitch on this one as it never made much sense to me that Mitch would refuse that particular request.

We may never know, but you have to admit, he got plenty of playing time, with Matthews, on the #1PP, while Nylander and Tavares got the scraps.
It was also mentioned, again, was it truly a reliable source, that Marner and his dad were always used to getting their way as he was moving up through the minor ranks.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ian Tulloch wrote that, and I think he's pretty reliable. But maybe the source he got this from is less reliable, because Marner was specifically asked about this today and he said that this was an outright lie. I'm inclined to believe Mitch on this one as it never made much sense to me that Mitch would refuse that particular request.

Even if it was true, the answer to that should have been Marner not seeing a second of PP time all playoffs. If he actually made that demand and Keefe complied, Keefe is the bigger problem of the two. That said I wouldn't be too surprised if Marner wanted to ride the narrative of him working on his shot and being a shooting threat this year, seems like the type of thing his and his dad's egos need and it matches the eye test with how many garbage shots he tried to force through from distance.

 

[kevsh]

If I'm moving Marner it's for "high compete level" middle six forward(s) on team-friendly deals with term, center preferred for at least one, or possibly a "heavy" top 4 LHD with a point shot (if Dubas is moving Reilly rather than re-sign him, which I believe he should).

Tavares isn't getting younger, Willie and Auston have a few years left on their deal, so I'm looking for players that can help right now. So not interested in prospects/picks outside of mid-round picks if required to balance a trade out.

 

[Kurtz]

We may never know, but you have to admit, he got plenty of playing time, with Matthews, on the #1PP, while Nylander and Tavares got the scraps.
It was also mentioned, again, was it truly a reliable source, that Marner and his dad were always used to getting their way as he was moving up through the minor ranks.

I know, but the nature of this conflict just never logically made any sense. It'd be one thing if the team wanted to remove Mitch from the PP entirely and he threw a tantrum, maybe I could buy that...but to refuse a coach's request to move to a slightly different spot on the 1st PP? That seems more far fetched.

It's easier to buy that Malhotra, who was a defensive specialist his whole career and I don't think ever played on the PP, simply didn't know how to adjust a PP. Our PK worked well and our faceoffs I think improved, which is where Malhotra's strengths always were.

 

[IPS]

Even if it was true, the answer to that should have been Marner not seeing a second of PP time all playoffs. If he actually made that demand and Keefe complied, Keefe is the bigger problem of the two. That said I wouldn't be too surprised if Marner wanted to ride the narrative of him working on his shot and being a shooting threat this year, seems like the type of thing his and his dad's egos need and it matches the eye test with how many garbage shots he tried to force through from distance.

It's all part of the same problem. The Matthews quote said it all - Mitch is the most popular guy in the locker room and everybody loves mitch. You upset Mitch, you upset the rest of the core - and you'll end up with a team completely quitting on you and hanging you out to dry. It's all the hallmarks of a country club atmosphere.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Seems like the consensus is that Seattle is taking one of Holl, Dermott, Kerfoot.

Which player will harm us most to lose? Which player harms us the least?

 

[Brobust]

Tampa plays their Hymans on the 2nd and 3rd line. And their Hymans are actually better.

If he's willing to take $3M and play with Kerfoot, great. If not, let Edmonton pay him $5+M and regret it in 2 years.

 

[Brobust]

Seems like the consensus is that Seattle is taking one of Holl, Dermott, Kerfoot.

Which player will harm us most to lose? Which player harms us the least?

They're all replaceable and the benefit of losing Holl and Kerfoot is added cap room. The only thing is Dermott would be very cheap.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's all part of the same problem. The Matthews quote said it all - Mitch is the most popular guy in the locker room and everybody loves mitch. You upset Mitch, you upset the rest of the core - and you'll end up with a team completely quitting on you and hanging you out to dry. It's all the hallmarks of a country club atmosphere.

Lowry felt betrayed by DeRozan getting moved. His "best friend" and long term teammate really from the beginning. He also knew getting Leonard is a huge addition and, while he would not admit it at the time (this interview is before the won the Championship BTW), that the team has a better shot with Leonard than with DeRozan.

Matthews would feel the same way. Betrayed, but I think he knows as long as the move makes the team better and helps them win a Cup, he understands it is the business and the right move. Especially after 5 straight 1st round losses (Raptors made the 2nd round consistently and even had some ECF appearances but in basketball, winning the 1st round is hardly an accomplishment and winning the 2nd round is like winning the 1st round in hockey; good, but hardly something you should be overly excited about if you have Championship aspirations).