Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[WTFMAN99]

Some times are better than others and in hindsight last off-season was the time maybe, who knows, but excusing their current inactivity just because there's a few hurdles or like it's such an impossible task is blowing my mind. These are the executives we have in charge?

I almost feel like you need to throw dynamite at it next summer.

I think the vast majority of us are pretty much thinking we'd want Shanahan gone...well he brought in Treliving. Tree replaced Dubas because we were disappointed in our playoff results and wouldn't pivot off the core players.

Tree hasn't changed any of the core and I guess the playoff success remains to be seen. Wes Clark still had ties with Dubas, suspect Pridham may jump ship.

Would like to change the people at top because otherwise Tree is Shanahan's guy and Shanny isn't even around anymore.

I know that is radical thinking though as typically GMs get longer rope but we've got 4 years of Matthews and that's that, if you don't win in that window of time, accept you won't be winning at all with this group of players even though they've kinda shown you they're not capable anyway.

Where/when did they admit this? I’m on here pretty frequently but do not recall this at all.

Lebrun or Friedman basically said the Leafs looked around the league at what Nylander would get them back in a trade, didn't like the options so they committed to re-signing him.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Pretty lifeless offseason so far. Treading water, status quo, shuffle players that make under 3M with 1 exception to get a guy at market value at the end of his prime at a risky term. Kick the can down the road again. Aim to come 3rd in the Atlantic and best case scenario we don't play Flordia round 1 and maybe we'll make the second round again and that'll be enough

 

[Peasy]

Pretty lifeless offseason so far. Treading water, status quo, shuffle players that make under 3M with 1 exception to get a guy at market value at the end of his prime at a risky term. Kick the can down the road again. Aim to come 3rd in the Atlantic and best case scenario we don't play Flordia round 1 and maybe we'll make the second round again and that'll be enough

Lock in those at minimum 2 home playoff games for extra revenue and Bell and Rogers are happy!

 

[Fogelhund]

I think we all know that this team hasn’t given 100% effort at times. We’ve all seen what these guys do when they are on, it’s when they dominate games. Then we see the games where they are listless, start late, or go up a few goals and then stop playing. It’s from top to bottom in the roster, there just isn’t a complete effort on a consistent basis. Yes, our players achieve incredible personal stats... and there is no question that we have immensely talented players..but we've all seen many moments where the team, AND individual efforts just aren't there. That fear of doom, when we are up two or three goals, because they stop playing the way that got them there. Not only that, they just don't seem to have the capability, drive, knowledge, or whatever it is, to raise their game in key moments...

 

[Stephen]

I equally share your frustration. I am beyond pissed at how things have played out here over the past couple years.

However, the time to trade Marner was last year, and that is solely on Shanahan, who called the core four immediately and told them that they won’t be traded. That was the window without the the NMC, where you groups obtain maximum value.

I would assume that the leafs have throughly gauged the market, and only haven’t approached Marner because nothing has been close.


Yup. I wish we’d make more low cost bets with potential high upside. Florida does it all the time.

Yep. They got Bjornfot after Vegas fumbled him and Adam Boqvist too. Between two former first round picks on defense they have basically secured two lottery tickets with a lot of untapped upside.

 

[ToneDog]

I almost feel like you need to throw dynamite at it next summer.

I think the vast majority of us are pretty much thinking we'd want Shanahan gone...well he brought in Treliving. Tree replaced Dubas because we were disappointed in our playoff results and wouldn't pivot off the core players.

Tree hasn't changed any of the core and I guess the playoff success remains to be seen. Wes Clark still had ties with Dubas, suspect Pridham may jump ship.

Would like to change the people at top because otherwise Tree is Shanahan's guy and Shanny isn't even around anymore.

I know that is radical thinking though as typically GMs get longer rope but we've got 4 years of Matthews and that's that, if you don't win in that window of time, accept you won't be winning at all with this group of players even though they've kinda shown you they're not capable anyway.



Lebrun or Friedman basically said the Leafs looked around the league at what Nylander would get them back in a trade, didn't like the options so they committed to re-signing him.

Tre also looked at what could potentially be available July 1st. Which begs the question, if we ended up with Roy, Marchesseault/DeBrusk, Tanev and Zadorov instead of Nylander, Tanev, OEL and Hak, would we be better today?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Tre also looked at what could potentially be available July 1st. Which begs the question, if we ended up with Roy, Marchesseault, Tanev and Zadorov instead of Nylander, Tanev, OEL and Hak, would we be better today?

I'd feel better about 6x6 on Roy over Tanev at 4.5M x6 years

Zadorov at 5x5 also works for me over OEL at 3.5M x 4 years

Just more tread on the tires.

 

[Tony Romo]

I'd feel better about 6x6 on Roy over Tanev at 4.5M x6 years

Zadorov at 5x5 also works for me over OEL at 3.5M x 4 years

Just more tread on the tires.

They locked in on Tanev, so I knew we would eventually get him. Roy + Tanev and just a 3rd pairing offensive dmen we could take a chance on would've been the ideal offseason.

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Roy
Benoit - Boqvist

Was my ideal scenario. It sucks we seem to not want to go an extra year for Roy or pay Zadarov a little more but settle for OEL at 3.5m.

 

[ToneDog]

I'd feel better about 6x6 on Roy over Tanev at 4.5M x6 years

Zadorov at 5x5 also works for me over OEL at 3.5M x 4 years

Just more tread on the tires.

Then again, with the additional cap space, maybe Tre gives Tanev $5mx6. LOL

Worst case is Tre gets Roy over OEL because he was focused on Tanev and can probably land March, Debrusk or Bert @ 5.5m and still has money remaining.

 

[Fogelhund]

If we managed to sign players, who in reality didn't really want to be here, to very friendly team deals, and managed to win imaginary trades, that weren't available, and we drafted the future best players and won every draft pick selection, we'd be better than we are today.

But, then there is reality.

""

""

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I think we all know that this team hasn’t given 100% effort at times. We’ve all seen what these guys do when they are on, it’s when they dominate games. Then we see the games where they are listless, start late, or go up a few goals and then stop playing. It’s from top to bottom in the roster, there just isn’t a complete effort on a consistent basis. Yes, our players achieve incredible personal stats... and there is no question that we have immensely talented players..but we've all seen many moments where the team, AND individual efforts just aren't there. That fear of doom, when we are up two or three goals, because they stop playing the way that got them there. Not only that, they just don't seem to have the capability, drive, knowledge, or whatever it is, to raise their game in key moments...

We had a pretty unserious regular season. The team had a terrible vibe where they looked far more engaged when they were trailing by 2 goals so they could cheat for offense. The moment the game was tied or took the lead they looked less interested.

 

[Fogelhund]

We had a pretty unserious regular season. The team had a terrible vibe where they looked far more engaged when they were trailing by 2 goals so they could cheat for offense. The moment the game was tied or took the lead they looked less interested.

People complain about the lack of changes over this offseason so far... and I get it... yet the biggest change possible, would be unlocking the team, both the star players and the others, to give a full effort, on a regular basis... and that is only possible through coaching changes. They chose Berube, so either he and his group can unlock something from these guys, or you might as well do sweeping changes and start again from new.

 

[Sypher04]

They've admitted to trying to move Nylander before re-signing him.

I’d say it’s true they explored it, but we don’t know that was anything more than due diligence.

 

[ACC1224]

I’d say it’s true they explored it, but we don’t know that was anything more than due diligence.

True, we don't really know where their heads are at with much of this stuff.
I don't recall hearing about the same exploration with Marner though.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think a new coach that holds all of his players accountable will help with the laziness and disinterested play we’ve seen in recent years. If you’re playing disinterested, hopefully that results into less ice time no matter what name is on the back of the jersey.

 

[Dreakmur]

Lebrun or Friedman basically said the Leafs looked around the league at what Nylander would get them back in a trade, didn't like the options so they committed to re-signing him.

So they decided that they didn’t really like the player…. Tried to trade him…. Realized nobody else really liked him either…. So they made him one of the highest paid players in league history?

We’ll probably do the same with Marner unfortunately.

Can’t make the tough decisions….

 

[WTFMAN99]

So they decided that they didn’t really like the player…. Tried to trade him…. Realized nobody else really liked him either…. So they made him one of the highest paid players in league history?

We’ll probably do the same with Marner unfortunately.

Can’t make the tough decisions….

I have to commend Edmonton for (eventually) ripping the band aid off with Eberle/Hall change.

It was a similar cycle, they felt like they weren't getting great offers and eventually decided screw it, let's trade. Not the best returns and probably should have made the decision sooner but you can't keep getting the same results/doing the same thing.

We haven't arrived there and I question if we ever will.

 

[Dreakmur]

I have to commend Edmonton for (eventually) ripping the band aid off with Eberle/Hall change.

It was a similar cycle, they felt like they weren't getting great offers and eventually decided screw it, let's trade. Not the best returns and probably should have made the decision sooner but you can't keep getting the same results/doing the same thing.

We haven't arrived there and I question if we ever will.

The problem will become that every new manager and coach will be the one that thinks they can fix the core. They’ll take a few years to figure out changes need to be made… too late, new hire and he thinks he can fix it…. Repeat.

I did it myself this year with my team last year. Problem player and problem family - I was confident that I’d be the one to finally get through to him. Nope. They were issues all year. He’s gone now, and the vibe is so much better already.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I have to commend Edmonton for (eventually) ripping the band aid off with Eberle/Hall change.

It was a similar cycle, they felt like they weren't getting great offers and eventually decided screw it, let's trade. Not the best returns and probably should have made the decision sooner but you can't keep getting the same results/doing the same thing.

We haven't arrived there and I question if we ever will.

their "same results" were missing the playoffs every year

Edmonton is where they are because of Connor McDavid, not because they traded away decent players for terrible returns

if you are going to mimic a team in the Cup, look at the team that won who have a history of winning trades and picking up assets undervalued by their original teams

 

[WTFMAN99]

The problem will become that every new manager and coach will be the one that thinks they can fix the core. They’ll take a few years to figure out changes need to be made… too late, new hire and he thinks he can fix it…. Repeat.

I did it myself this year with my team last year. Problem player and problem family - I was confident that I’d be the one to finally get through to him. Nope. They were issues all year. He’s gone now, and the vibe is so much better already.

Even beyond the players themselves, it's just the mix, we were absolutely loaded at forward, especially when they joined the league, JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, Matthews, Marner and Nylander...we couldn't parlay some of the wealth to defense?

That Nylander-Pietrangelo swap would have been so beneficial.

their "same results" were missing the playoffs every year

Edmonton is where they are because of Connor McDavid, not because they traded away decent players for terrible returns

They had Hall with McDavid too and still had poor showing.

McDavid does a lot but also need to change the mix a bit.

Sometimes a player is around a losing environment too long as well.

 

[mydnyte]

Even beyond the players themselves, it's just the mix, we were absolutely loaded at forward, especially when they joined the league, JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, Matthews, Marner and Nylander...we couldn't parlay some of the wealth to defense?

That Nylander-Pietrangelo swap would have been so beneficial.



They had Hall with McDavid too and still had poor showing.

McDavid does a lot but also need to change the mix a bit.

Sometimes a player is around a losing environment too long as well.

forget the swap, we could have had both, but Dubas didnt go for broke on the best RHD defender ever to hit UFA

 

[WTFMAN99]

forget the swap, we could have had both, but Dubas didnt go for broke on the best RHD defender ever to hit UFA

That was arguably the last best chance at a top pair RD, legit guy.

Weegar was also apparently nearly had for Johnsson/Dermott.

Pietrangelo vs trading Kerfoot, passing on Brodie, Simmonds, Thornton? I take the defenseman

Muzzin-Pietrangelo would have helped so much getting through the Habs and WPG.

 

[1specter]

Yep. They got Bjornfot after Vegas fumbled him and Adam Boqvist too. Between two former first round picks on defense they have basically secured two lottery tickets with a lot of untapped upside.

The next Forslings coming right up. Bjornfot also picked using the Leafs draft pick that was traded for Muzzin, of course.

 

[Fogelhund]

So they decided that they didn’t really like the player…. Tried to trade him…. Realized nobody else really liked him either…. So they made him one of the highest paid players in league history?

We’ll probably do the same with Marner unfortunately.

Can’t make the tough decisions….

Nah...

Decided they would shop the player, and see if they could IMPROVE the team. Concluded that they couldn't IMPROVE the team by trading him, and happily extended him.

Tough decisions include keeping players.

However, they didn't do what YOU wanted them to do, where they have full information, and you have very little... so now you are mad and accusatory.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nah...

Decided they would shop the player, and see if they could IMPROVE the team. Concluded that they couldn't IMPROVE the team by trading him, and happily extended him.

Tough decisions include keeping players.

However, they didn't do what YOU wanted them to do, where they have full information, and you have very little... so now you are mad and accusatory.

It is a bit circular though right?

We go to the playoffs, we lose
We talk about change
We don't like what we're offered
We return the following season and generally lose in the 1st round
We talk about change
We don't like what we're offered

You can say you don't like what we're offered and maybe the first 2-3 times we can say bad luck, team is maturing etc but we're year 8 into this.