Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Menzinger]

Someone somewhere online was mentioning a deal with Calgary centred around Blake Coleman…

I think they mentioned Robertson and Lily heading the other way.
Thoughts…

I'm skeptical the Leafs will make any trades with the Flames as long as Tre is GM

 

[Menzinger]

if you can't admit 34 mails it in on a regular basis then no one will value anything you say, if that's your goal here.............

Do you know something that Hart and Ted Lindsay award voters don't know?

 

[LaPlante94]

Our PK hasn't been terrible every playoffs, and Marner is far from the issue when it has struggled.

You should care that he's a top producer and player on the team. More than just the highest producing center on your team matters.

Not that it matters which are higher/lower scoring, but that's not even true. Game 1 is our 2nd lowest scoring game after game 7. Your claims about production effects are wrong.

You're blaming an individual for something that isn't an individual issue, and even more odd, you're focusing on the guy primarily in charge of the thing we tend to do quite well, and not the guys who primarily do the thing we're struggling with.

People here blame whatever fits their narrative, and then make suggestions that don't fix anything, and often hurt the team. Moving Marner doesn't improve anything. It gives opportunity to address something, which Treliving has shown he will waste. And even if it was addressed, it still wouldn't improve the team overall. Opening holes to close other holes doesn't advance you ahead.

You mean elite goalie runs don't last forever? Wow, what a surprise! Not to mention that all of your numbers are wrong.
Toronto scored 16 goals against Price. That's the same as Tampa (16), and more than Vegas (13) and Winnipeg (6).
Toronto scored 22 goals against Vasilevsky. That's more than Colorado (20), New York (14), and Florida (3).
Toronto scored 10 goals against Bobrovsky, and while Vegas got to see the implosion side of Bobrvosky after he didn't play for like 10 days, Carolina (6) still scored less than us.
I'm not sure why you're attempting to misrepresent us as the only one that has experienced this.
Even if your argument was accurate, the only thing it would say is that we're slightly worse than cup-winners.

We're not reliant on 1 line, but removing Marner would help turn us into that. Cup winners aren't made by overpaying depth.

Ignored? It's like this board's catchphrase. People love to pretend it means way more than it does, and then what they actually ignore is all other information and context. We're not accumulating series here. This isn't Pokemon, trying to catch them all. Unless you win 4 series in one season, all it means is that you lost in a slightly different way.

No we didn't. What are you even talking about?

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Kovalchuk, Vanek, Nash, and Heatley. Behind everybody who earned more than him. Behind a few who didn't earn more than him. Ahead of those he earned more than. In other words, a reasonable contract.

The last time our PK was above 80% in the playoffs was in 2020/21 when we played a non playoff team in Montreal. The other time was against a Columbus team that wasn't a playoff team either. Since Marner got put on the PK our PK in the playoffs has been awful. Dubas brings in Kampf and Jarnkrok and we're told they are very good PKers and it'll help. Well, our PK still sucks and Marner is one of the main PKers. So yes, I'd say he's a big part of that issue apparently.

I don't care that he's a top producer on our team when we have Matthews and Nylander already. We got excited having them all when we drafted them all and thought we were finally gonna make cup runs and even win some, but they didn't make any kind of cup run and have won nothing. Can't even win a regular season trophy for most points during the season as a team. All I care about is this team making runs now unless they are rebuilding.

Following the same script since Keefe took over. Usually get blown out Game 1 then we blow them out and then games 3-4 are usually 4-3 games and then we can't even score 2 goals.

I'm not blaming Marner. I do blame him for taking more money than he deserved and then when we needed him most to score in elimination games he becomes a ghost. The main issue wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have so much cap tied down to 4 forwards. Do we really expect to keep signing guys to league min deals who don't score much to suddenly just out of the blue help our depth scoring in the playoffs? Marner is just on the last year of his deal and he could easily get us back a 2nd line C that would set us up perfectly for Tavares to drop down to 3C and get a much lower cap hit on his next deal, unlike Marner.

He'll waste? 2 of our leading scorers in the playoffs were because of him. One of our better defenders and budget players was because of him. Samsonov earned another contract here because of his previous season and we only gave him a 1 year deal so idk how that's a waste. Reaves and that 4th line the 2nd half of the season was great and in the playoffs as well. Robertson, Holmberg and Jarnkrok were garbage considering they were supposed to be our best depth scorers. Not guys Tre brought in. That top paid player though didn't take over once again though. Trading a guy taking up 11 million of our cap space himself and even more on his next deal to put elsewhere in the lineup doesn't create holes. It actually patches up all the holes we have. Our offence didn't die when Mitch got hurt, in fact it gave someone like McMann a bigger role and I'd say he did what we knew he could do and that was score goals. Matthews production didn't get hurt playing with Domi and Bertuzzi either. So what holes do we create exactly with Marner gone?

Montreal went to 7 against us and only 5 with Tampa Bay. 2 less games to score the same amount of goals on Price. They all played fewer than 7 games and what did Florida do after that series? traded their top point producer who happened to be a playmaking winger as well. Even traded their top dman with him. Carolina was without one of their top forwards in Svech and Patches who was their FA signing to help their goal scoring issues. Aho was their only legit player at that time and Necas was just starting to breakout. These teams also don't pay the prices we do for goalscoring and are scoring close to us or more than us in less games played. Looks like we don't need all 4 of Matthews, Nylander Marner and Tavares when other teams are doing this with players who aren't paid more than 9 mil at the time.

Actually a lot of cup winners do overpay on depth, especially since their top 6 isn't filled with 11 million dollar players. They'll usually have their 2 highest forwards and then a few 3-6 mil players around them and throughout the lineup and then the league min guys. We could also do that if we just moved 1 player and waited for the other to get his lower AAV contract after next season. It's also funny looking at past cup winners and seeing them win with players who people on here would consider a bad player and who would make our team worse.

See now you just trying to throw sentences together that just make zero sense to defend your little narrative. Trying to claim others ignore information and context when the information and context is all over the TVs and Internet every year when we lose. Is that not clear enough info and context for you when it shows we lost a series 4-3? Then when people say our big players ghost in elimination games and y'all will try and go with the you can't make it to those games if they aren't scoring in the 1st 3 games. Like come on now. All we wanted was this core who was said to be our best ever to make cup runs and the furthest they made it to was the 2nd round and got embarrassed in 5 games. Plenty of info and context that shows this core just isn't it and paying them all what they wanted was a mistake. It's the world we live in with a cap system. You are going to have to move on from elite players when things aren't working out. If they were consistently making runs and going to the 2nd or 3rd rounds then it's easy to argue why we should keep them, but they aren't. Maybe stop relying so much on your deserve to win meters and xGF% and all that and see what's happening right in front of your eyes on the TV every playoffs. How many times do you gotta say if we played them again we would win and then go on and lose again for you to realize something isn't working?

Yes we did. We traded away Engvall. We traded away Sandin. The rest of the guys we traded for we didn't really give up players for and they just took over roster spots from the players who were there all season. Acciari, Lafferty and O'Rielly are the 3 I remember on forward ad Schenn and McCabe on defence.

Those 1st 5 names Marner shouldn't even be close to. Vanek was very overrated but he was averaging around 40 goals his last 2 seasons on his ELC so it makes sense why they paid him, especially after Drury and Briere left and that team looked like it was on the downfall after a few good runs. Kovalchuk another who only gets that contract because Atlanta only had him and Heatley and Heatley left after his ELC was up and I'm assuming got traded for Hossa. I can't remember exactly. Was also averaging around 40 goals a year his last 2 seasons on his ELC. Final year of his ELC led that team in scoring by 30+ points too. They paid him because he was that teams only bright spot and it was after the lockout year so idk if that had anything to do with it. Heatley got 11.54% of the cap off his ELC for 3 years and then signed for 14.91% of the cap after having career years in those 3 seasons averaging 50+ goals and 100+ points. Rick Nash is another who got overpaid because he was a rookie leading his team in scoring on a team that looked like it had no future and they didn't. Poor guy didn't even get to really play any playoff hockey until he left for the Rangers. So I mean sure. If you want to group him in with the 3 who were also overpaid then I guess you can say it was a reasonable contract. I'm sure if Marner was playing for a team and he was the only good rookie that team had and lead them in scoring and didn't really have any playoff hopes then maybe you can justify him being overpaid.

 

[rumman]

Do you know something that Hart and Ted Lindsay award voters don't know?

Irrelevant, Mathews could be so much better, and if you can’t admit that you’re delusional……

 

[conFABulator]

Irrelevant, Mathews could be so much better, and if you can’t admit that you’re delusional……

What?!? The guy got 69 goals last year, led us in points and got Selke consideration?

You realize if he improved on any of those even just a little bit he would be considered the best player in the world, right?

...and you think he could be "so much better" and if you don't admit this you are "delusional"? Really?

Ok, let's say he improves defensively and wins a Selke. How much offense is he adding to his numbers exactly? Can you quantify what being ,"so much better" looks like?

 

[LaPlante94]

Does Pittsburgh have interest in Nick Robertson now that wes clark and dubas are both there?

What could a potential trade look like?

Tbh, they don't have much that'd interest me personally. Prospects wise only Koivunen, Yager, Brunicke and Howe maybe.

 

[rumman]

What?!? The guy got 69 goals last year, led us in points and got Selke consideration?

You realize if he improved on any of those even just a little bit he would be considered the best player in the world, right?

...and you think he could be "so much better" and if you don't this you are "delusional"? Really?

Ok, let's say he improves defensively and wins a Selke. How much offense is he adding to his numbers exactly? Can you quantify what being ,"so much better" looks like?

That’s what I said, if ge didn’t mail it in on a regular basis, he’d be the second best player in the NHL…….

 

[LaPlante94]

Mentioned it before but Nikishin is the dream target. Significant pro experience for his age in the 2nd best league, more NHL ready than a typical rookie, and an extremely high ceiling as a jack of all trades minute muncher. You wouldn't be waiting as long for him to impact a blueline like you would with a CHL graduate.

But that proposal is extremely rich from Carolina. I could see Marner for Necas + as a logical base, but CAR views Nikishin very highly as a potential top pair D prospect. I'd be willing to add to bridge the gap.

Necas beside Matthews/Tavares would make for 2/3 of a heavy north-south line.

Nikishin is someone I wanted us to draft badly. I always found it odd how a lot of scouts said his offensive game was limited when you could clearly see the potential there for his offensive game to blossom. I was a little upset when we took Hirvonen and Niemela just before him.

Also, I don't think it's asking for too much tbh. Top 6 forward and a top prospect seems to be the going rate for a player like Marner. maybe since the prospect is better than most that 1st could be a 2nd round pick instead. If they don't want to give up a top prospect or a high pick then go all out and go after Svechnikov over Necas.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I want someone to explain to me how Tanev is any more exciting than the summer of signing Brodie , the OEL signing is any more exciting than the Klingberg signing.

Stolarz ( that’s who it is, right?) is a cool backup. I like his confidence. Yay.

Is Knies ready for the bertuzzi role? Do they just keep pretending Domi is a top liner? Do we rush some rookies to offset these bloated “stars”

Marner questions.

Tavares heavier boots.

Someone make me happy haha

 

[Gamble9]

Robertson holmberg and a 2nd in 25 for rutgor mcgrorty who says no

 

[conFABulator]

That’s what I said, if ge didn’t mail it in on a regular basis, he’d be the second best player in the NHL…….

I know you said that and I think it is ridiculous.

What does this look like? Let's say he stops mailing it in defensively and wins a Selke instead of just being top five consideration every year.

What do you think his offense could look like? How much more could he produce exactly?

 

[Kiwi]

Robertson holmberg and a 2nd in 25 for rutgor mcgrorty who says no

They do

 

[conFABulator]

I want someone to explain to me how Tanev is any more exciting than the summer of signing Brodie , the OEL signing is any more exciting than the Klingberg signing.

Stolarz ( that’s who it is, right?) is a cool backup. I like his confidence. Yay.

Is Knies ready for the bertuzzi role? Do they just keep pretending Domi is a top liner? Do we rush some rookies to offset these bloated “stars”

Marner questions.

Tavares heavier boots.

Someone make me happy haha

Ok, I will try...

Brodie was a good depth signing that we HOPED could be a good match with Reilly by playing on his off-side for more years. He was never considered one of the best at what does (though he was good) and he didn't bring any elements we were missing, other than being a very good, defensive defenseman. Tanev is a RD that plays hard minutes and leads by example. He was in discussion as Dallas's Conn Smythe candidate if they went to the cup. He has a history of chemistry with Reilly and he is signed for less AAV than Brodie was way back then.

OEL vs Klingberg? Really? Klingberg was done and every scouting report on the planet said so. He trajectory was bottoming out and there was talk of him being damaged goods. OEL is coming of a very good season that seems to have his trajectory on the upswing after some injured years. He just won a cup and he is making less annually than Klingberg was.

It seems as though Knies is ready for the Bertuzzi role, we will see. What is that role exactly? Top line minutes and 20 goals? pick retrieval? Hits? I think Knies was better than Bertuzzi at most of this last year. Certainly in the playoffs.

Domi could be a top line player with AM34, he was for the back half of last year. This allows us to spread out our core four across three lines. I think Knies/Matthews/Domi has the potential to be a very good top line, especially on a team that has Marner, Nylander, Tavares, McMann and maybe a kid or two (Holmberg? Robertson? Cowan? Grebenkin?) spread across the next two lines.

 

[Killswitch]

I want someone to explain to me how Tanev is any more exciting than the summer of signing Brodie , the OEL signing is any more exciting than the Klingberg signing.

Stolarz ( that’s who it is, right?) is a cool backup. I like his confidence. Yay.

Is Knies ready for the bertuzzi role? Do they just keep pretending Domi is a top liner? Do we rush some rookies to offset these bloated “stars”

Marner questions.

Tavares heavier boots.

Someone make me happy haha

Knies is already better than Bertuzzi. Tanev is in the Muzzin mold so clearly better. OEL plays defence and can pas the puck. Clearly better. Tavares has one more season left. maybe he gets a "I want another good contract" bump season and we take it and then run away. Couldn't tell you if they are better but they aren't worse and more suited for the playoffs then what left

 

[Zero1]

Someone somewhere online was mentioning a deal with Calgary centred around Blake Coleman…

I think they mentioned Robertson and Lily heading the other way.
Thoughts…

Can we expand the deal and include Weegar…

 

[TMLAM34]

Nikishin is someone I wanted us to draft badly. I always found it odd how a lot of scouts said his offensive game was limited when you could clearly see the potential there for his offensive game to blossom. I was a little upset when we took Hirvonen and Niemela just before him.

Also, I don't think it's asking for too much tbh. Top 6 forward and a top prospect seems to be the going rate for a player like Marner. maybe since the prospect is better than most that 1st could be a 2nd round pick instead. If they don't want to give up a top prospect or a high pick then go all out and go after Svechnikov over Necas.

Svechnikov would be my dream, top line of Svechnikov - Matthews - Domi.

 

[SprDaVE]

Someone somewhere online was mentioning a deal with Calgary centred around Blake Coleman…

I think they mentioned Robertson and Lily heading the other way.
Thoughts…

I'm not a fan of removing solid RHD depth for a 33 year old winger but he had a pretty big season last year and he's got 2 cup rings so perhaps you go with it, I'm not sure.

With that said, I don't see Calgary having much interest in Robertson since they have a decent amount of LW depth.

 

[Torontonian]

Too many people here have convinced themselves trading Marner clears the way to solve the Leafs problems and success. Marner is a damn good player. It’s not even a certainty that trading him is smart at all, let alone the obvious right path.

I’d rather resign the good player then let him walk in free agency and try to replace him via throwing money at different lesser free agents and use assest to replace him.

 

[GQS]

Too many people here have convinced themselves trading Marner clears the way to solve the Leafs problems and success. Marner is a damn good player. It’s not even a certainty that trading him is smart at all, let alone the obvious right path.

I don't think trading Marner necessarily solves all of the Leafs' problems, but it does significantly shake up the atmosphere and feel of the team and it gives you some capspace and assets in return that you can do something different with the team.

When the Leafs got knocked out in the 1st round again, many if not most Leafs fans wanted major changes and now we all seem to be getting use to the fact that Marner will stay and we'll run it back yet again and hope for a better result and that somehow THIS TIME our best players will show up in the playoffs.

I don't know about you, but I'm not hopeful that the Leafs will achieve much better results next season with the same core going into the playoffs again and that somehow they will magically start firing on all cylinders. I really like Marner and wished it would've worked out here, but at this point I think moving him is a good start in taking this team in a new direction where we're not doing the same thing as we've been doing for the past 6 seasons with the core four.

 

[Americanadian]

Carolina is still very interesting. Drury would be a perfect 3C for the Leafs given his age/price and defensive acumen.

They currently have 15M to sign Necas, Drury and Jarvis with a 20 man roster. 775k less per extra they keep up. AFP has Jarvis at 7.9M on a long-term deal or 6.3M on a short-term deal. They have Necas at 7.5M long-term or 6.2M short-term. They have Drury at 3.4M long-term and 2.2M short-term. If all 3 players come in at the short-term values that's a total of 14.7M which would put them 0.4M under the cap with a 20 man roster. Not a lot of wiggle room.

The most likely scenario is they move off Fast to create room but Drury would be a good target if he's available.

 

[WillNy29]

1.) I am more famila


Ok I was answering questions repeatedly and this topic has been a long standing issue I have done tons of research on over the years. The Toronto taxes were from older articles. I know that LA and NY now have higher taxes.

Instead of getting into the nuance here which we can do later if I have time.

NHL agents gms coaches players accountants and media all (save Walsh who uses RCAs which are a joke for a millionaire. I have them and. I am not a millionaire).
All say that they have favourable tax situations in southern markets which lead to players taking less.

And they do.

High tax markets in the us and Canada sign their stars for 13.5-15%: doughty. Kopitar. Karlson. Thornton. Panarin. Price. Tavares. Matthews. Petterson. Kane. Toews. Perry.

That’s standard

No state tax markers have NEVER signed a single star at over 13% of the cap. One got 13% (Benn) the rest are 11-12.25: kuch. Stamkos. Point. Vasy. Benn. Seguin. Barkov. Tkachuk. Reinhart. Josi. Saros.

If there is no difference. Seems like a heck of a coincidence.

High tax markets in the south that were competitive and champions (LA, Anaheim, SJ) got no cheap deals. Rich prestigious markets (toronto/montreal/NYR/chicago) got no cheap deals.

All of the players in no state tax markets are just selfless or they all have incredible hard nosed GMs. Who were never that before they got there….. Stevie Y got stamkos on 8.5 in Tampa. And just paid Justin holl 3.4.

It’s pretty suspicious

we also miss european tax standards applying to european players etc. this is way more complex than what some people are telling you. The CPA signed off on Brian Burke giving a lecture on reduction of taxes to the point that its negligible; not sure they would if he was lying.

 

[WillNy29]

I'm not saying all players in high tax markets are greedy. This is a specific criticism for the Leafs players. Coincidentally the only market that parades around income tax as an excuse for poor roster construction.

Reinhart definitely took a discount. I said as much earlier. Florida also held his feet to the fire and he signed 10 minutes before the deadline. Florida simply won the negotiation because the player prefered the fit over an extra couple million dollars he would never use.

Is 15 minutes/night worth 3.5M to you?

I am not sure why you're taking CapFriendly as gospel when it's already been proven wrong in this thread. @WillNy29 appears to be much more knowledgeable than myself, and you, on this topic. They provided examples of how players can avoid paying 54% of their income to tax.

just a point of note no one in north america is paying the amount of taxes the individual you quoted is saying. we pay in something called a tiered system on brackets. the federal brackets are as follows:

• 15% on the first $55,867 plus
• 20.5% on income over $55,867 up to $111,733 plus
• 26% on income over $111,733 up to $173,205 plus
• 29% on income over $173,205 up to $246,752 plus
• 33% on income over $246,752

so let's say i earn $1million this year in taxable income i am paying tax as follows:

15% * $55,867 = $8,381
20.5% * 55,866= $11,452
26% * $61,472 = $15,982
29% * $73,547 = $21,328
33% *$753,248 = $248,571

total federal tax bill before any deductions and credits is $305,714 or 30.57% tax rate on $1 million dollars without considering any impacts of credits, deductions, RCAs, RRSP and any other tax shelter items.

 

[LaPlante94]

Any word on Vrana? I know he was having issues and going to the leagues rehabilitation program. If we're moving Robertson he could be a good replacement player for him on the 3rd line LW. Sprong too.

 

[SprDaVE]

Any word on Vrana? I know he was having issues and going to the leagues rehabilitation program. If we're moving Robertson he could be a good replacement player for him on the 3rd line LW. Sprong too.

Probably a PTO level player and see how he does. Didn't exactly set the AHL on fire either.

Sprong will get something at some point. Back to back 40 points in the NHL and only 27 years old. I don't see a fit with the Leafs as a right handed RW with a lot of issues outside of his offensive abilities.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Hope these Marner to Vegas/Utah rumours/speculation has some merit…

Roy + Kolesar + Theodore

For

Marner

???