Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[rumman]

I think we all know that this team hasn’t given 100% effort at times. We’ve all seen what these guys do when they are on, it’s when they dominate games. Then we see the games where they are listless, start late, or go up a few goals and then stop playing. It’s from top to bottom in the roster, there just isn’t a complete effort on a consistent basis. Yes, our players achieve incredible personal stats... and there is no question that we have immensely talented players..but we've all seen many moments where the team, AND individual efforts just aren't there. That fear of doom, when we are up two or three goals, because they stop playing the way that got them there. Not only that, they just don't seem to have the capability, drive, knowledge, or whatever it is, to raise their game in key moments...

I've been getting ripped for suggesting 34, among others would be so much better if they didn't mail it in on a regular basis and posters say I'm out of tune for suggesting said criticism. Personally if you can't admit these guys have a serious consistency problem to their game I think they're the one's out of tune.............

 

[Fogelhund]

You don't try to improve your team by trading away the guys you think are keys to the team's success....



They don't make those ones either - see Zach Hyman.



I'm not the one that decided he was expendable when I started shopping him. They did that.... with all their information.....

You trade any player, if you think it improves the team.

Hyman was a different GM... quit living in the past. Hyman also was a playoffs failure (5 points in his last 19 games), bad knees and we were tight to the cap. Hindsight is a beauty, but again.. quit living in the past.

Shopping someone doesn't make them expendable... it means they are looking at ways to improve the team, and seeing if that is possible. Everyone on the roster should be expendable.... for the right deal.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I get the angst, and the constantly living in the past, and questioning what could have been, "IF" things were different. But they aren't different and here we are. It's so much easier as fans, to dream up scenarios, and trades where we improve the team.. but then that requires willing trade partners, willing players to drop NMC/NTC and willing players to sign here. That is where the dream scenarios don't meet reality.

Everytime we move a player, such as Kadri, and don't get full perceived value, people obsess about it for years.

So we move Nylander, and get equally bad value in return? Is that what you want, just to satisfy a desire for change at any cost?

How about trading Marner? I've seen the media suggest we move him one for one.. for Necas, or Sergachev, or Keller. Here is my favourite (sarcasm) Alex Kerfoot (C/LW), Maveric Lamoureux (D), and 2024 second-rounder.

If you get a crap trade, you've satisfied the desire to make moves, at any cost... and the team is worse under pretty much every one of those scenarios, and there was a cost. It may not satisfy you, but if the team is better off staying put, and hoping for the best, versus downgrading and being either a wild-card team, or not making the playoffs, management is going to stay put.

Fans have the benefit of living in a fantasy world of what is possible, with no disconnect with reality. We have no idea of the real conversations, or what is really possible... but then it's all angst, and pointed anger at those who actually know what's going on, because the entitlement of not having achieved the goal has personally harmed fans. Sports should be a healthy past time, not something that personally harms. Some people need to get outside and enjoy the weather (though maybe not today).


I'd sign Comtois too.... league minimum... chances are low he ever becomes what he appeared he might... but then, there was enough there, that if somehow it happens, that's a player we could use.

I bring up Pietrangelo specifically because that was a very legit possibility, twice.

Once in a trade, not sure who said no and he was there as a UFA, we just went a different way. It's a conversation but it doesn't get us anywhere.

A move for moves sake is not ideal either, Necas isn't a bad player but it would really need to come with some kind of plus.

He had 4 goals this most previous post-season, anyway you slice it, it beats any of Marner's career highs in goals.

It feels like we're in the repeat part of the timeline again though.

 

[rumman]

So they decided that they didn’t really like the player…. Tried to trade him…. Realized nobody else really liked him either…. So they made him one of the highest paid players in league history?

We’ll probably do the same with Marner unfortunately.

Can’t make the tough decisions….

their whole way of running the hockey team is at least dysfunctional...........

 

[Americanadian]

I’m sorry, but if the Leafs have time for a project forward like Cedric Pare, they can throw out a 1 year league minimum for a guy like Alex Nylander who was on a 38 goal pace for a quarter of the season in Columbus. Warts and all.

Slow rolling Cowan a little bit longer should be the play. For too long the Leafs have burned guys like Sandin and Robertson on premature promotions too quickly with unrealistic expectations, they aren’t ready to make the jump but they get the feeling of entitlement and become frustrated. Let him mature and develop a little bit more and don’t touch that ELC.

Is it not more likely that Nylander isn’t signed because he’s holding out for more? Obviously you take a chance on Nylander over Pare. I think every GM does for the same price. Everything we know about the Nylander family points to him trying to sign a contract based off his 23 game showing, not a league minimum deal.

 

[Fogelhund]

Is it not more likely that Nylander isn’t signed because he’s holding out for more? Obviously you take a chance on Nylander over Pare. I think every GM does for the same price. Everything we know about the Nylander family points to him trying to sign a contract based off his 23 game showing, not a league minimum deal.

Pare isn't a signing for the Leafs though... he's a signing for the Marlies, to fill a role.

They are completely non-related thoughts.

 

[Americanadian]

Pare isn't a signing for the Leafs though... he's a signing for the Marlies, to fill a role.

They are completely non-related thoughts.

They are both NHL contracts though, no? The only reason not to sign Nylander, assuming he wants 775k as was proposed here, is to save a contract slot. Thus making them equal assets.

 

[SprDaVE]

At the end of the day if A. Nylander wasn’t so flawed wouldn’t be in the bottom of the trash bin. My hope is we can find a little piece here, and another there and make a hobo sandwich. I mean depth scoring line.

Gregor has unique speed but other than that I’m sure they can call a UFA up with similar attributes at the start of camp.

We're always inline for PTOs and late bargain bin finds. So I would not be surprised if Nylander fits that role of "Come in and show us what you can do". More competition is better. But I also think there are better suited players that can fit a useful role instead of needing to be overly sheltered with offensive minutes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Perfect world I would want Necas and Nikishin

World isn't perfect though, what's the best asset that you would put on top of Necas for Marner that would make you grit your teeth a bit but wouldn't outright hold up the deal?

Me personally, I wouldn't want to add much, which is why it makes no sense for Toronto as well.

Don't get me wrong, Marner is a VASTLY superior player than Necas, but I think an extension in Carolina for him would be nearly impossible so he would be a 1 year rental. This is for a team that is probably taking a step back this year, where-as Necas is, at a minimum, around for 2 years and it's more possible to extend.

Given the losses of Guentzel, Teravainen, Necas (in this scenario), Pesce, and Skjei; and the aging of guys like Staal and Burns; I think the Canes will take a step back this year, particularly defensively, which has been their calling card. Does it make sense to trade for a guy, even as elite as Marner is, for 1 year given the step back they may take? Maybe, but they failed to make it to the ECF with all those guys they lost and I'm not sure Mitch and the guys they acquired close that gap.

As much as I'd like him on the Canes, it seems like the wrong use of assets given all these factors.

Ideally, I think the Canes would want to trade Necas for a guy with more years of control, which isn't always easy to do either. That is likely why he hasn't been traded yet.

 

[Fogelhund]

They are both NHL contracts though, no? The only reason not to sign Nylander, assuming he wants 775k as was proposed here, is to save a contract slot. Thus making them equal assets.

I mean, if you don't get organization building you don't... that's ok.

They are not equal, by any means. One fills an actual organizational need.

 

[Fogelhund]

Me personally, I wouldn't want to add much, which is why it makes no sense for Toronto as well.

Don't get me wrong, Marner is a VASTLY superior player than Necas, but I think an extension in Carolina for him would be nearly impossible so he would be a 1 year rental. This is for a team that is probably taking a step back this year, where-as Necas is, at a minimum, around for 2 years and it's more possible to extend.

Given the losses of Guentzel, Teravainen, Necas (in this scenario), Pesce, and Skjei; and the aging of guys like Staal and Burns; I think the Canes will take a step back this year, particularly defensively, which has been their calling card. Does it make sense to trade for a guy, even as elite as Marner is, for 1 year given the step back they may take? Maybe, but they failed to make it to the ECF with all those guys they lost and I'm not sure Mitch and the guys they acquired close that gap.

As much as I'd like him on the Canes, it seems like the wrong use of assets given all these factors.

Ideally, I think the Canes would want to trade Necas for a guy with more years of control, which isn't always easy to do either. That is likely why he hasn't been traded yet.

IMO, the Leafs making a trade with Marner, hinged on one of two directions.

1. Finding a very good D with term.
2. Finding some good young players/prospects/picks.

It's post Free Agency, and no team can afford to give up very good D, as there really isn't any way to replace them now.

The same really goes for Picks... the draft has happened, and it doesn't make sense to kick the can down the road a year, on futures for Marner. Getting young ELC players, and prospects, meant having Cap room available to sign UFA's.... now there are no UFA's to sign.

The whole idea of moving Marner this offseason, should be put to bed now... it just isn't going to happen.

 

[phillipmike]

I’d call up Anaheim to see if they’d trade Vatrano (upcoming UFA) for Robertson+ (Jarnkrok?).

He’d be a solid fit in the top 6 LW

I like this too though i bet Anaheim could get a 1st+ for him at the deadline if he replicates last season.

 

[Americanadian]

I mean, if you don't get organization building you don't... that's ok.

They are not equal, by any means. One fills an actual organizational need.

Admittedly I overlooked the organizational need for both.

Either way - my point was that Nylander is probably looking for more than league minimum.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Where/when did they admit this? I’m on here pretty frequently but do not recall this at all.

Tre brought it up earlier this year. They likely explored a possible trade late summer and into the fall last year when talks stalled.

 

[Tony Romo]

If the plan is just to let Marner walk next off season. Trading him 1 for 1 for Necas isn't the worst, as at least you get an asset back that you can sign long term.

 

[Fogelhund]

Admittedly I overlooked the organizational need for both.

Either way - my point was that Nylander is probably looking for more than league minimum.

What he's looking for at this point, is rather irrelevant. It's July 10th, and there aren't many spots left. There are however quite a few unsigned players... so if he wants to play, he and the rest of the players left, are best to sign whatever they get offered.

Sprong might have a little leverage, but not many others do.

Tyler Johnson might be a guy worth throwing a low ball offer at. True C, who wants to go to a team that will make the playoffs, after being stuck in Chicago for a few years.

 

[TheDoldrums]

If the plan is just to let Marner walk next off season. Trading him 1 for 1 for Necas isn't the worst, as at least you get an asset back that you can sign long term.

They can also sign Marner long-term if they wanted to. Is paying $12M for Marner worse than paying $9M for a significantly worse player? Idk

Necas profile to me looks like a poor man’s Nylander. Marner is better offensively and defensively. Its just change for the sake of it and Necas would probably become a whipping boy here pretty soon on a big deal.

I would rather deal with Vegas who can at least offer different things that would change the makeup of the team. I don’t see the point in swapping Mitch for a slightly less expensive winger who is more one dimensional.

 

[ToneDog]

They can also sign Marner long-term if they wanted to. Is paying $12M for Marner worse than paying $9M for a significantly worse player? Idk

Necas profile to me looks like a poor man’s Nylander. Marner is better offensively and defensively. Its just change for the sake of it and Necas would probably become a whipping boy here pretty soon on a big deal.

I would rather deal with Vegas who can at least offer different things that would change the makeup of the team. I don’t see the point in swapping Mitch for a slightly less expensive winger who is more one dimensional.

You make good sense. Problem is Theo no longer makes sense for the Leafs unless they move Rielly. Would you take Necas + 1st or blue chipper for Marner? Unless the Canes are desperate to move off Necas, I do not think they will want to bring in Marner and pay him more than Aho. That could upset the apple cart in Carolina IMO.

 

[Dreakmur]

You trade any player, if you think it improves the team.

Hyman was a different GM... quit living in the past. Hyman also was a playoffs failure (5 points in his last 19 games), bad knees and we were tight to the cap. Hindsight is a beauty, but again.. quit living in the past.

Shopping someone doesn't make them expendable... it means they are looking at ways to improve the team, and seeing if that is possible. Everyone on the roster should be expendable.... for the right deal.

Again, you don’t shop players that are essential to team success. By shopping him, they showed they don’t believe he was an essential piece of the team.

 

[Dreakmur]

their whole way of running the hockey team is at least dysfunctional...........

It’s so horrible. Let’s wait until Nylander has the least value that he will ever have and try to trade him. Hmm, didn’t work. Let’s wait until Marner has the least value that he will ever have and try to trade him. Damn, that didn’t work either. Shocking….

 

[keonsbitterness]

Again, you don’t shop players that are essential to team success. By shopping him, they showed they don’t believe he was an essential piece of the team.

Not always true. Nylander was the classic case of shopping a player during a contract impasse. That can lead to a trade or an agreement after restarting negotiations.

 

[Madap]

Tre brought it up earlier this year. They likely explored a possible trade late summer and into the fall last year when talks stalled.

I see, I must have missed that. Thanks. Don’t love that they overpaid him then later in the year if they were originally looking to trade him.

Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake with Marner.

 

[Tony Romo]

They can also sign Marner long-term if they wanted to. Is paying $12M for Marner worse than paying $9M for a significantly worse player? Idk

Necas profile to me looks like a poor man’s Nylander. Marner is better offensively and defensively. Its just change for the sake of it and Necas would probably become a whipping boy here pretty soon on a big deal.

I would rather deal with Vegas who can at least offer different things that would change the makeup of the team. I don’t see the point in swapping Mitch for a slightly less expensive winger who is more one dimensional.

I personally would try pushing for Jarvis over Necas. Which would probably be a quick no. But it’s kinda puzzling that Carolina doesn’t have either signed right now.

Is Necas asking for 9m? For some reason I remember 7m being the ask

 

[phillipmike]

If we managed to sign players, who in reality didn't really want to be here, to very friendly team deals, and managed to win imaginary trades, that weren't available, and we drafted the future best players and won every draft pick selection, we'd be better than we are today.

But, then there is reality.

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Already better than Puckpedia imo. PP's layout and color scheme makes it hard to read and navigate. CapFriendly has a great color scheme and navigation so Cap Wages is taking steps in the right direction.

 

[SprDaVE]

I personally would try pushing for Jarvis over Necas. Which would probably be a quick no. But it’s kinda puzzling that Carolina doesn’t have either signed right now.

Is Necas asking for 9m? For some reason I remember 7m being the ask

I'm surprised there hasn't been any smoke about an offer sheet to Jarvis. Not that Carolina can't match or anything, but it could seriously hurt them to sign/trade Drury (won't cost much) and Necas. A team could go up to 9M and only give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and they would only have about 2M left.

Drury and Necas filed for arbitration so they can't be offer sheeted.