Tavares, Rielly and Marner need to be moved on from in that order. If by the 20 game mark this team is still playing like it has recently I'd pull the plug on this roster and start moving a few big pieces.
Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 Season Edition
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Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,647
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I'm pretty doom and gloom and it's not because of two losses. I don't have faith and see no reason for faith. I believe in my soul that Marner/Matthews will never amount to more than 3-6 playoff wins. I would try a retool around Matthews/Willy and reuse the 22M from Marner/JT for a vastly altered look of the same product. If you're playing a card game with the exact same deck and lose 10 straight games, shouldn't you adjust your deck building? Or just keep trying and pray for good luck? It's not even hate at this point, it's stale and I doubt the players even believe in each other, they have so many bad memories here other than their salaries
You don't win a cup with 2 guys though, you win a cup with an entire roster.
Matthews and Marner are 0.87 ppg and 0.88 ppg in the playoffs.
Barkov and Tkachuck who just won a cup are 0.86 ppg and 0.83 ppg in the playoffs.
Yes, it's true... our guys are 4.5 million more expensive then there top two guys, so we lose surplus value here.
But we also have a surplus value on guys like Knies, OEL, Tanev, Stolarz, etc.
Tavares is negative value, about -7 or -6 in surplus value.
Once they allocate Tavares' 11 million properly, our chances improve a lot more imo.
Americanadian
Registered User
You also have Rielly, Kampf and Liljegren playing below their salary and are signed beyond this season.
Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,647
- 4,065
Do you think Tavares won't be resigned?
The surplus value on Knies and Stolarz is for the current year only.
I just don't think the issue has been the rest of the roster. I think the issue is the big guys don't perform when the moment is key. This is going to sound goofy but I really felt a pit in my stomach when Matthews had 2 games to get to 70 goals and couldn't. I don't think the duo of Matthews/Marner are built for the unjust slog of the playoffs and something has got to give. If Tavares is the only casualty, I don't think that's enough, he at least won them a series
Rare Jewel
Patience
Also, the issue isn't just about salary or economic considerations anymore; it's also now (the last 3 seasons for me) about whether this group should be taken forward.
Punch Drunk Loov
Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
- Dec 6, 2011
- 5,647
- 4,065
In addition, if you want to point at the Leafs depth and say it isn't good enough. Well:
- We have no money for better depth because the core 4's cap hit
- We've wasted surplus performances from depth. Kerfoot, Spezza, Brodie, Woll off the top of my head way out performed their pay in the playoffs. Matthews/Marner need to eventually carry multiple series and I strongly believe they can't do that. We've had heroic depth at times
- We have no money for better depth because the core 4's cap hit
- We've wasted surplus performances from depth. Kerfoot, Spezza, Brodie, Woll off the top of my head way out performed their pay in the playoffs. Matthews/Marner need to eventually carry multiple series and I strongly believe they can't do that. We've had heroic depth at times
TheMadHatTrick
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2008
- 7,160
- 3,352
WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 34,650
- 12,834
It shouldn't be, sometimes you have good players but the mix is bad.
Unfortunately the consistently main competitive spirit we have seen from Marner, Matthew, and Nylander has centred around their compensation.
Too late to move on from Nylander and Matthews, leaving Marner and Tavares as the only remaining options to be moved on from that can result in impactful change.
Being those 2 back, and you are signing up for the same bullshit we have had for the past 7 seasons.
Good luck keeping your fanbase alive.
A lot of other sports and options competing for their interests that actually provide a compelling reason to emotionally invest vs running the same futile crew for the next 5-8 years.
We deserve better.
Too late to move on from Nylander and Matthews, leaving Marner and Tavares as the only remaining options to be moved on from that can result in impactful change.
Being those 2 back, and you are signing up for the same bullshit we have had for the past 7 seasons.
Good luck keeping your fanbase alive.
A lot of other sports and options competing for their interests that actually provide a compelling reason to emotionally invest vs running the same futile crew for the next 5-8 years.
We deserve better.
If they do bring back Tavares it will be half the cost but I'd prefer they don't. I'd prefer a playmaking C like Granlund given that this team is loaded with shoot first players.
Over the next year I'd like to see them move on from Tavares, Liljegren, Kampf and Jarnkrok and use that 18 million of cap space on a 2c, 3c and a top 3 D.
That will obviously prove to be a massive challenge given the center market is extremely thin.
rumman
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
- 16,543
- 12,974
Geting rid of half your problems is better than nothing I suppose, maybe that helps the remaining problems?
Culture change, or at least a start yo changing the culture……..
Americanadian
Registered User
It’s good that people are coming around. That question was answered after the Columbus series.
ULF_55
Moderator
My choice would have been pursued before one of those names was re-signed ...
However, that option no longer exists, so in reality one of those centers would have to become a winger.
TheMadHatTrick
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2008
- 7,160
- 3,352
Was your choice Lindholm like mine was?
To Toronto: Andrei Svechnikov + Jesperi Kotkaniemi
To Carolina: Mitch Marner + Nick Robertson
To Toronto: Jack McBain
To Utah: Timothy Liljegren + David Kampf
Svechnikov - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Kotkaniemi - Nylander
Pacioretty - Tavares - McMann
Lorentz - McBain - Jarnkrok
Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Timmins
Stolarz - Woll
To Carolina: Mitch Marner + Nick Robertson
To Toronto: Jack McBain
To Utah: Timothy Liljegren + David Kampf
Svechnikov - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Kotkaniemi - Nylander
Pacioretty - Tavares - McMann
Lorentz - McBain - Jarnkrok
Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Timmins
Stolarz - Woll
Carolina says no easy! They aren’t giving up a good player under great contract for a free agent to be, and a player whose not their type of player
I mean, any move with Marner would be coming with an agreement in place you’d think.
Your forgetting Carolina isn’t that place! They aren’t trading the player they have to pay a more expensive one who won’t play to their structure system
What’s their structure? I feel like Marner would fit perfectly in their structure being one of the best defensive forwards in the game and still being on the doorstep of hitting 100 points each season.
The defence isn’t good enough and what the coach doesn’t seem to realize if lily doesn’t make the step you gotta get a legit top 4 Dman to have 3 strong pairs Benoit and Timmins this year won’t be enough
The defence isn’t that great, but there are a few bright spots. I’m hoping with JT’s money coming off the books we use that money towards the blueline whether that be through free agency of trade.
Chief Leaf
Registered User
- Dec 10, 2009
- 516
- 299
Wonder if this would fly?
Marner signed at 12 mil for 8 years then traded for Elias Pettersson.
Marner signed at 12 mil for 8 years then traded for Elias Pettersson.
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