Ontario Hockey Federation ditches geographical restrictions on player movement

[Squiffy]

Thought we could stop hijacking the Alberta thread. Fairly hot topic in the land of rep minor hockey in a large chunk of Ontario (OHF covers basically all central ON, north and south. HEO does eastern ON and HNO does west ON).

In a nutshell, no boundaries for players for teams under the OHF umbrella effective next season. Some happy, some not. Concerns that smaller town associations will not be able to compete and lose top-tier players to bigger markets. On the flip side, families that were unhappy for whatever reason with the local association happy to now be able to shop around.

I'm fairly indifferent here in the middle of Toronto, the GTHL has allowed free movement within its region forever and it's what I'm used to. I suppose I could go have my kid tryout for Oakville or something if I wanted, but I really have no reason to consider that, plenty of options within the GTHL for my kid as it currently stands. It is a whole new world though for everyone outside the GTHL.

Interested to hear takes.

Key Changes to Player Movement Regulations

www.ohf.on.ca

Player Movement FAQs

ohf.on.ca

‘Parents wanted more choice’: Ontario Hockey Federation to let players choose where they want to play, regardless of residency

The OHF is removing residency regulations in minor hockey for the under-10 age group and older from house league to AAA beginning next season.

www.thestar.com

Click to read more...

 

[Yukon Joe]

I did post about it in the Alberta thread.

It does actually seem more wide open than what Alberta is even proposing (where, after you register once, you're locked in).

From what I can tell from afar, what it means is that anyone can try to try-out/register in the GTHL, even if you don't live within that region. From 1000s of kms away I've never been quite clear what's so special about the GTHL, but clearly it is "a thing".

 

[Squiffy]

I did post about it in the Alberta thread.

It does actually seem more wide open than what Alberta is even proposing (where, after you register once, you're locked in).

From what I can tell from afar, what it means is that anyone can try to try-out/register in the GTHL, even if you don't live within that region. From 1000s of kms away I've never been quite clear what's so special about the GTHL, but clearly it is "a thing".

The GTHL or anywhere else too.

It may level the playing field. G teams have had the ability to recruit anyone within the G region. The top teams just get stronger as the top players gravitate to them. If (random example, not based on anything) now a strong team in say Hamilton can now recruit strong players away from neighbouring teams, then perhaps the G top teams aren’t (again random, no data) 6 out of 10 of the top teams in the OHF every year.

Of course the weak get weaker being the inverse which isn’t great.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The GTHL or anywhere else too.

It may level the playing field. G teams have had the ability to recruit anyone within the G region. The top teams just get stronger as the top players gravitate to them. If (random example, not based on anything) now a strong team in say Hamilton can now recruit strong players away from neighbouring teams, then perhaps the G top teams aren’t (again random, no data) 6 out of 10 of the top teams in the OHF every year.

Of course the weak get weaker being the inverse which isn’t great.

I mentioned the GTHL because I've heard stories of parents renting or buying places within the GTA for the specific purpose of making their kid "eligible" to play in the GTHL.

Jeff Marek tweeted the other day about how this move will cause a drop in the divorce rate in Ontario. It was tongue in cheek, but not completely.

Trying to decide where to try out if your kid has serious hockey ambitions has to be tough. Just as my own example, my kid tried out for a very good AAA team - and was the last cut. Slightly different story but he made it on the AA team for the same club, where he's team captain, starts most games and is getting lots of PP/PK time. Is that better for his development than if he'd made the AAA team and been a 5/6 defenceman, but playing both with and against more skilled players? I honestly don't know.

 

[Squiffy]

It's a thing, yes. Maybe specifically a crazy hockey parent thing as opposed to a necessary thing, but the GTHL pumps out an outsized % of OHL draft picks from its teams. I guess folks figure it's where little Johnny will get the most exposure. Scouts will find the talent anywhere that said, IMO.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

I heard a rumour that some GTHL coaches get paid six figures to coach U10. Not sure if that’s true, but I’m not sure I’d be shocked.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I heard a rumour that some GTHL coaches get paid six figures to coach U10. Not sure if that’s true, but I’m not sure I’d be shocked.

U10? 6-figures?

That's nuts.

That being said - paid coaches I could totally see even at that age - parents can be nuts.

 

[BadgerBruce]

That absolutely would not surprise me. 15 or so years ago, when one of my now adult sons was recruited by a bantam team in the G (we lived in an OMHA centre), we were told that everyone had to pony up $5K for the coaching staff, so that would have been 17 x $5K ($85K). This was in 2008. 2024-25 rates are surely higher, so $100K would not be out of line for a non-parent coach.

While I absolutely do not agree with these extraordinary minor hockey coaching salaries, I will admit that non-parents who are truly good coaches are awfully hard to find, close to impossible if they aren’t getting paid. At the AAA level, you tend to get what you pay for.

 

[Yukon Joe]

That absolutely would not surprise me. 15 or so years ago, when one of my now adult sons was recruited by a bantam team in the G (we lived in an OMHA centre), we were told that everyone had to pony up $5K for the coaching staff, so that would have been 17 x $5K ($85K). This was in 2008. 2024-25 rates are surely higher, so $100K would not be out of line for a non-parent coach.

While I absolutely do not agree with these extraordinary minor hockey coaching salaries, I will admit that non-parents who are truly good coaches are awfully hard to find, close to impossible if they aren’t getting paid. At the AAA level, you tend to get what you pay for.

So $85k, split between 3-5 coaches, isn't close to "six figures" - even if accounting for inflation.

I've definitely said before that there can be a world of difference between a really good coach, and a merely "ok" coach. I also know that coaches at the U15AAA/AA level here are getting paid - though it's more like an honorarium and you don't pay for meals/hotels, rather than anything you'd possibly live off of.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

So $85k, split between 3-5 coaches, isn't close to "six figures" - even if accounting for inflation.

I've definitely said before that there can be a world of difference between a really good coach, and a merely "ok" coach. I also know that coaches at the U15AAA/AA level here are getting paid - though it's more like an honorarium and you don't pay for meals/hotels, rather than anything you'd possibly live off of.

How a Toronto hockey league turns kids’ joy into an $8.8m cash cow | Ice hockey | The Guardian

Hope this works because I’m an old man on the internet, but this is an interesting read.

 

[GangGreen]

Our association finally pulled their head out of their asses and amalgamated with some neighbouring centres for next season. Only took them 5 years. In the meantime, we have been uncompetitive due to the lack of available players while other centres that did merge rolled over the competition. Now we find out, players won't have to play for the merged team. So what was the point? House league it is.

 

[Yukon Joe]

How a Toronto hockey league turns kids’ joy into an $8.8m cash cow | Ice hockey | The Guardian

Hope this works because I’m an old man on the internet, but this is an interesting read.

There's some weird things in that article, lots that I already knew, and some stuff I really question.

First of all - they make it sound like the GTHL having revenue of $8 million is a bad thing. That works out to roughly $250 per player though, which doesn't seem out of line.

The talk about teams being bought and sold is not new, but is still just as troubling.

When they talk about people making money on hockey - and talk about equipment manufacturers? Umm - yeah? And?

It does confirm the coaches salaries of $100k or more - although admits it's the exception.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

There's some weird things in that article, lots that I already knew, and some stuff I really question.

First of all - they make it sound like the GTHL having revenue of $8 million is a bad thing. That works out to roughly $250 per player though, which doesn't seem out of line.

The talk about teams being bought and sold is not new, but is still just as troubling.

When they talk about people making money on hockey - and talk about equipment manufacturers? Umm - yeah? And?

It does confirm the coaches salaries of $100k or more - although admits it's the exception.

I guess the problem is that the GTHL is treated like a not-for-profit organization and it’s making 8 million. There’s obviously 2 ways to look at it. If they’re using that money to make the experience better for their kids or even ensuring the life of their organization, then I’m all for it. Otherwise it’s a bit shady. That’s where the conversation about unpaid labour begins.

The crazy part re coaches that they touched upon in the article was them making additional money outside of the budget from sponsors that want to gain control of the team.

I think the smaller cities and towns that surround Toronto are really concerned about the elimination of borders. A lot of people in Southern Ontario already commute quite a distance for work (sometimes up to 2 hours one way). Not difficult to imagine them commuting for hockey as well.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Should watch the “The Tournament”, great CBC mockumentary on kids parents at hockey.
One guy builds a long hallway extension to his house, so his kid play on the other team.
It’s quite entertaining and funny. Went for 2 seasons. Couple of write ups

For those who like comparisons it is the Bad News Bears meets Slap Shot.

"The Tournament" is mockumentary series that promises to do for minor hockey what Spinal Tap did for dino-rock and Best in Show did for dogs. Produced by the folks behind the Just For Laughs comedy festival, "The Tournament" strikes a blow at the insanity of hockey parents and speaks to everyone who ever skated on his or her ankles. The show boasts special appearances by NHL legends Phil Esposito, Marcel Dionne, Dennis Hull and Yvon Cournoyer. This 2 DVD set features the complete series with a full roster of special features including bonus footage and interviews. Nominated for three Gemini Awards! A rarity to be treasured! -The New York Times.

https://www.amazon.ca/Tournament-Complete-Various/dp/B000H5VACU

 

[CuuuJooo]

Should watch the “The Tournament”, great CBC mockumentary on kids parents at hockey.
One guy builds a long hallway extension to his house, so his kid play on the other team.
It’s quite entertaining and funny. Went for 2 seasons. Couple of write ups

For those who like comparisons it is the Bad News Bears meets Slap Shot.

"The Tournament" is mockumentary series that promises to do for minor hockey what Spinal Tap did for dino-rock and Best in Show did for dogs. Produced by the folks behind the Just For Laughs comedy festival, "The Tournament" strikes a blow at the insanity of hockey parents and speaks to everyone who ever skated on his or her ankles. The show boasts special appearances by NHL legends Phil Esposito, Marcel Dionne, Dennis Hull and Yvon Cournoyer. This 2 DVD set features the complete series with a full roster of special features including bonus footage and interviews. Nominated for three Gemini Awards! A rarity to be treasured! -The New York Times.

https://www.amazon.ca/Tournament-Complete-Various/dp/B000H5VACU

OMG The Tournament is brilliant.

 

[Dreakmur]

It's a thing, yes. Maybe specifically a crazy hockey parent thing as opposed to a necessary thing, but the GTHL pumps out an outsized % of OHL draft picks from its teams. I guess folks figure it's where little Johnny will get the most exposure. Scouts will find the talent anywhere that said, IMO.

The GTHL generally doesn’t develop the top players. They recruit them after they developed elsewhere.

Open borders will just create recruitment hubs in other leagues, which will hurt player development.

Just about every “zone” association will cease to be viable within the next few years, which essentially means some players will have to move or billet to play AAA.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The GTHL generally doesn’t develop the top players. They recruit them after they developed elsewhere.

Open borders will just create recruitment hubs in other leagues, which will hurt player development.

Just about every “zone” association will cease to be viable within the next few years, which essentially means some players will have to move or billet to play AAA.

In other words, minor hockey is going through a transformation comparable to what the Olympics and NCAA have gone through in recent decades. With time, the focus gradually pivots to building a money machine in the major hubs. One day everyone looks around and says “hey wait, isn’t this pro sports?” as if that wasn’t always the inevitable end of this path.

 

[Dreakmur]

In other words, minor hockey is going through a transformation comparable to what the Olympics and NCAA have gone through in recent decades. With time, the focus gradually pivots to building a money machine in the major hubs. One day everyone looks around and says “hey wait, isn’t this pro sports?” as if that wasn’t always the inevitable end of this path.

Pretty much, and the ones who lose out are the kids. Teams that want to attract players have to win now. No time to develop skills for the future!