GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Smif]

If we don’t add a good 2C or 3C the year will be a write off.

You didn't like
Matthews
Domi
Tavares?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

You didn't like
Matthews
Domi
Tavares?

I loved
Bert - Matthews - Domi

Can always put a centre on a wing if everyone is healthy. Can never have too many centre's

 

[thewave]

I loved
Bert - Matthews - Domi

Can always put a centre on a wing if everyone is healthy. Can never have too many centre's

Do you love Bert and Domi at 6m each? Thought not.

 

[TMLAM34]

Do you love Bert and Domi at 6m each? Thought not.

Domi isn’t getting 6 million with term.

 

[Torontonian]

Do you love Bert and Domi at 6m each? Thought not.

3.75m for Domi by 5/6 years
4.25-4.75m for Bert by 5-6 years

They get term, we get lower dollars, These are the type of middle 6 players you have to get on good deals; can’t be giving them 4.5m and 5.25m

 

[thewave]

3.75m for Domi by 5/6 years
4.25-4.75m for Bert by 5-6 years

They get term, we get lower dollars, These are the type of middle 6 players you have to get on good deals; can’t be giving them 4.5m and 5.25m

Exactly. 8.5m on the high end for those two and we're good. No issue with your proposal.

 

[DougGilmour93]

I would walk away from all of our UFAs.
Domi and Bertuzzi were nothing special. Neither of them had a good season. Sure they stepped up a little in the playoffs but not really. I’d consider Domi back at a reasonable contract (no more than 3.5m with term) if we were able to trade Marner for a king’s ransom

Maybe circle back to Lybushkin and Edmundson if we strike out on the likes of Zadorov, Roy, Pesce and Tanev.

I’m more interested in the likes of Trenin, Joshua, Stephenson, maybe even Arvidsson (than Bertuzzi or Domi)

 

[rumman]

I am totally fine with Bertuzzi coming back, in fact at a reasonable cap hit I’d be happy. I think he’s someone who will benefit a lot from a coaching change and having Berube here. If you can get him at 5 or under, I’d be happy. Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi worked really well, would be excited to see what they can do under Berube. Plus it’s important to surround Matthews with two guys who won’t put up with shit or back down.

No trade protection for anyone on new contracts, that should be Tre’s golden rule going forward, that and signing them to respectable numbers, if that can’t be done move on and let other teams handcuff themselves……..

Domi wants 6m. Bert 7m? Of they dont come in under 9m together, they need to go.

You’re being too generous imo, 8-8.25 is where I’d hope they land, and I don’t see any reason their contracts shouldn’t be about the same number………

 

[rumman]

Domi is not getting 6 million, that’s just media throwing out stupid shit for clicks. Coming off basically his best season in Chicago, Domi was able to get was a 1 year 3 million dollar deal… All of a sudden he’s going to get 6 million on a long term deal when he had a worse season overall? That doesn’t make any sense.

If Tre does that he might take over for Dubas in the stupidity department imo, Domi’s shown he can work within the team, but only at the right cost. Ditto for Bert……..

I've never had faith in the support. I still have some faith in the core though I wouldn't mind a shakeup as long as it's a return I can stomach.

When your heart’s defective the rest of the body can’t work effectively………

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Timmins good whenever he played?

My calendar isn't showing April 1st on it.

5v5: 57.6 FF%, 60.2% xGF%, 61.8% GF%, 1.2P/60 (second only to Rielly). 10P and +9 in 25 games. What complaint could you possibly have about his play?

I’m assuming because he’s very injury prone and cannot stay healthy.

Mono isn't exactly a repeatable injury and he was healthy scratched for a fair number of the games he missed. But anyway, this is not nearly as much of a problem for a player earning 350k over league minimum.

 

[Smif]

I loved
Bert - Matthews - Domi

Can always put a centre on a wing if everyone is healthy. Can never have too many centre's

Same! They were a great 1st line. I also lived Domi at C in the playoffs when Matthews was out.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’d be happy if the Leafs can sign both Bertuzzi and Domi to basically the exact same contracts… 4.5 million per over 4-6 years. 9 million for two top six wingers, you really can’t go wrong there especially considering they bring an edge to their game.

 

[OVO16]

I would love both Bertuzzi and Domi back. Hopefully they both come in at reasonable deals

They both extemely solid for us last year and considering we've been at arms for having good wingers beside Mathews and Tavares, losing Bertuzzi and domi wouldn't make any sense.

We'll be saying how we need wingers around the trade deadline. You keep both if you can

 

[Kiwi]

Yes. We need to break up the core.

You dobt get to make that decision
They do, so if they don't want to you are **** out of luck

 

[Kurtz]

How did they do against non buzzsaws like Columbus and Montreal? Neither of those teams even qualify for the playoffs under normal playoff rules….



They can only beat the teams in front of them, but for the sake of accuracy, Edmonton has twice beat teams with as many or more points than the team Toronto lost to.



Montour’s cap hit was 3.85 when he was a cap dump.



Yup

CBJ was a write-off season, as Dubas himself showed when he tried to sell at the deadline. Let's move on from that disaster, there isn't much to learn from that season.

MTL we should have beaten, no question, but I'll remind you that after beating us, they went 8-2 against their next two opponents and made the finals, so they clearly weren't too bad of a team...

We could have afforded Montour at a $3.8 cap hit.

And I hope you understand my point on Hyman. Hyman had 5 goals and 13 points in 32 playoff games as a Leaf. As an Oiler he has 27 goals and 44 points in 45 games. Same player, arguably core player, placed in a different context and his output changes completely. It's a good lesson to learn from.

 

[jaric1862]

If the leafs re-sign Bertuzzi, I think that signals a Marner trade. Again, Pagnotta is not an insider though.

 

[keonsbitterness]

3.75m for Domi by 5/6 years
4.25-4.75m for Bert by 5-6 years

They get term, we get lower dollars, These are the type of middle 6 players you have to get on good deals; can’t be giving them 4.5m and 5.25m

3-4 years, maybe. I wouldn't give them 5-6.

 

[rumman]

3-4 years, maybe. I wouldn't give them 5-6.

The low end of what was preposed is okay, 3-4 years of term is good, no trade clauses

 

[Lightsol]

Just have to step in here for a second.

This watered down league is tiered off and lop sided. You have to pretend it's a 4 team league of Boston, Florida, Toronto and Tampa and then build your team within that.

Abstract the rest of the league away and just assume if you can go toe to toe with these 3 teams, you can take out any other team in the league.

Getting smashed (where almost every series went to game 7 btw) by these 3 teams during years where we still had holes is causing people to want to make moves that drop us out of this tier but line us up with teams we're not even going to face because of the playoff format.

It's takes a few minutes to wrap your head around what I'm saying but most of the (realistic) trade proposals that break up the core make us worse. For starters, JT at 2C / 3C is an absolute cheat code that allows us to go in that 4 team tier.

The cap hits are ugly on paper but loop back to my first sentence of watered down league and there is enough cap space. 90% of the players in this league can wash themselves out when you line up the teams head to head in a well coached way. "Parity" is causing the NHL to shift to more NBA style where a few superstars are enough to make you sky rocket to a tier over half the league can't touch. These other teams fantasize about the day they can draft a stud of their own.

Our biggest flaw thus far has been the actual wash-out when lining up the teams head to head. We chose soft, vanilla and mentally weak players who are easy to over power in serious games. If you are serious about winning, you leave the core alone and continue focusing on ridding this team of it's vanilla / too many players that play the same style issue that plagued our depth multiple years in a row.

Hiring Berube was a big step in the right direction. Jarnkrok over Domi or Bertuzzi in critical situations is a good example of what not to do in the leagues current format. I don't know what Marners offensive struggles has to do with stuff like that.

We are fully capable of winning all of the Series that Marner has struggled in, so imagine if he only improves even 10% while filling up the rest of the roster with hard working players we can easily afford no matter how much Marner makes. You know who we can't afford if we needed one? Marner.

The big, big difference between the Leafs and the three teams they have to beat to get anywhere in the playoffs is goaltending. Florida, Tampa and Boston all have goalies that can steal you games if you need a game stolen. The Leafs have never had that luxury and have been trying to overcome it. It's not working.

This is the part people miss when they point out Edmonton's playoff success vs. the Leafs'. Edmonton doesn't have great goaltending, but their goaltending is good relative to the division they play in. The Leafs are below average relative to the division they play in, which means that they have to make up for their goaltending a lot more than Edmonton does.

 

[Evilhomer]

4m to 4.5m seems reasonable for him. 4.75m max on 5-6 year deal. Anything higher then that I would move on.

To me in a proper lineup, Bert would playing 2nd line winger / 3rd line winger.. not a 1st line winger. There are plenty of middle 6 forwards in FA you could get for cheaper.

Signing Bertuzzi to a 5 or 6 year deal should be a fireable offense. That will a horrendous contract.

 

[LaPlante94]

i,m agree but how many complete series Muzzin played in hos 5 year in Toronto? 2 get a player injured don't help tou to win series...


Leafs and edmonton don't play the same style... Toronto was playing a high defensive style and edmontom a high offensive type of game

And like i saif if you get something who upgrading significantly the team yes, if ypu just get pick and prospect and doing it to clear cap space... it's a pretty bad idea to trade Marner.

and yes trading mm for pietrangelo or jt for parayko would make sense but exemple trading marner for Parayko will just make the team worst, it's what i said since the begginning. If Tre make a move, need to be for to upgrade the team overal and not a desesperate move like we already did with Kadri and like 90% of trade offer i read here was desesperate move


leafs having 18M and pretty good option this off-season to fix it.

leafs need a #2 and #3

He played 3 complete series out of 4 playoff series he played in here. 1 of those series he was healthy in was against a non playoff team in the Montreal Canadians. Now that I think about it I think that 4th series where I didn't think he was healthy it was the play in so it was only a 5 game series. He played 2 games so I guess it's up to opinion if you want to count that as a healthy series or not. Either way though, that was another series where we played a Columbus team that probably wasn't making the playoffs in a regular season.


People will find every excuse as to why we struggle to advance in the playoffs but other teams in similar or worse situations found ways to do it. If depth scoring is the main reason why then move money from those really high paid players and spread that out so our bottom 6 isn't made up of guys on league min salaries and expecting them to help these guys over the hump. At least use that money to make a damn good 3rd line that can provide offence because that Jarnkrok guy who we get told is our best depth scorer can't score to save his life in the playoffs. Defence has been fine, it'll be amazing to see how good our top guys could be if we moved 1 of them and spent that money on a 3rd line that could help take over a few games during a long playoff run.,

 

[HomelessPepper]

For the love of god, please no Bert... He sucks... You can get 80% of what he brings by paying a guy like ZAR 1M. The only thing he was good at was being greasy. We need greasy players who can actually play hockey.

 

[ToneDog]

For the love of god, please no Bert... He sucks... You can get 80% of what he brings by paying a guy like ZAR 1M. The only thing he was good at was being greasy. We need greasy players who can actually play hockey.

You lost me at ZAR. We should aim higher.

 

[Gallagbi]

Last year, it's not because he didn't understand the neez... Just the option to fix leafs need was pretty poor so they sign player tre thing could help with one year deal and giving him a shot next season to fix the D with better player available. Last year Schenn and Holl was amount top target, just imagine.

He didn't understand the needs of the team. He didn't create options or address issues, he forced a toughness narrative which causes roster construction issues all year long.

We needed C depth and he didn't sign any. We had LW depth knocking on the door and his two big signings were LWers. With how Tavares was trending you needed a strong 3C Or even another 2C that could push him to wing. Instead we played Domi down the middle at times when he needs heavy sheltering. We resigned a pricey 4th line C with Holmberg ready to take over. Locks in Reaves a guy who wasnt going to make a playoff impact and ends up being healthy scratches (of course)

Signs a hobbled Klingberg who is at best a bottom pair PP specialist instead of a viable top 4 option. Someone like OEL could have played more minutes, in all situations and added as much offense presence as a healthy Kling.

At least he hit on Jones rehab curve holding up for a month or two before the inevitable regression.

We needed speedy middle 6 C's. He signed wingers. We needed players that create havoc if he wanted toughness, he got guys who responded. We needed puck movers and transition D, he signed a hobbled PP specialist who can't play regular minutes without being a liability

 

[thusk]

MM cap space can be use on UFAs who actually score in the playoffs.

Anyhow, glad you are coming around to the idea that the Goal is to win the Cup and not have the existing core winning the Cup.

The fact player did it in different team, sifferent system doesn't mean they will do it in Toronto.

Bertuzzi is a great he had been great the previous year with Boston with 5 goal and this season the only 1 they scored was an accident...

CBJ was a write-off season, as Dubas himself showed when he tried to sell at the deadline. Let's move on from that disaster, there isn't much to learn from that season.

MTL we should have beaten, no question, but I'll remind you that after beating us, they went 8-2 against their next two opponents and made the finals, so they clearly weren't too bad of a team...

We could have afforded Montour at a $3.8 cap hit.

And I hope you understand my point on Hyman. Hyman had 5 goals and 13 points in 32 playoff games as a Leaf. As an Oiler he has 27 goals and 44 points in 45 games. Same player, arguably core player, placed in a different context and his output changes completely. It's a good lesson to learn from.

Hyman is a great exemple of a player who didn't look the same way with 2 different team.

He played 3 complete series out of 4 playoff series he played in here. 1 of those series he was healthy in was against a non playoff team in the Montreal Canadians. Now that I think about it I think that 4th series where I didn't think he was healthy it was the play in so it was only a 5 game series. He played 2 games so I guess it's up to opinion if you want to count that as a healthy series or not. Either way though, that was another series where we played a Columbus team that probably wasn't making the playoffs in a regular season.


People will find every excuse as to why we struggle to advance in the playoffs but other teams in similar or worse situations found ways to do it. If depth scoring is the main reason why then move money from those really high paid players and spread that out so our bottom 6 isn't made up of guys on league min salaries and expecting them to help these guys over the hump. At least use that money to make a damn good 3rd line that can provide offence because that Jarnkrok guy who we get told is our best depth scorer can't score to save his life in the playoffs. Defence has been fine, it'll be amazing to see how good our top guys could be if we moved 1 of them and spent that money on a 3rd line that could help take over a few games during a long playoff run.,

the 1st year when leafs traded for him at TDL, where he need to learn no system, new teammate and whatever. Most of the time its not when D like this are the best.. Exemple mcdonaugh, indholm same or Ekholm in the defensive side of the game and had a better impact year 2.

year 2 been injured gm 2 vs cbs
year 3 been injured gm 6 vs mtl
year 4 playing the series( and for me its not even close to be the series leafs played last 20 year).
year 5 played 4 game and missed the rest of season+playoff.

so i don't where was your 3nd series? he missed 3 of 5 season he was in Toronto