Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[Dreakmur]

Mediocre GM's seek out washed up vets with name value.

Great GM's seek out hidden gems.

Great GMs seek out whatever the team needs, regardless of preferences or pressure.

 

[Stephen]

Do we need to proactively trade Martin Jones to Colorado to keep him away from Tampa Bay?

 

[LeafSteel]

Do we need to proactively trade Martin Jones to Colorado to keep him away from Tampa Bay?

I think that’s exactly what we end up doing.

No sense losing Jones for nothing on waivers, and there’s no way he clears.

Depending on the demand, Jones could turn into a decent asset for us.

 

[Americanadian]

Do we need to proactively trade Martin Jones to Colorado to keep him away from Tampa Bay?

Why not trade him to Tampa? He’s been a below average goalie for years. Tampa running a duo of Jones/Johansson is the best case scenario. The last thing I’d want as a Leafs fan is Tampa making a move for a goaltender who could potentially play well.

 

[rojac]

To me Kane isn't coming that was my point

His contract will bonus ladder.

Kane will not be eligible for performance bonuses. He's not an ELC player. He did not spend over 100 days on the IR last season. And he did not turn 35 before )une 30 of this year. In the latter 2 situations, performance bonuses are only available on one-year contracts.

 

[ACC1224]

Do we need to proactively trade Martin Jones to Colorado to keep him away from Tampa Bay?

Trade him to whoever would pay the most.

 

[Sypher04]

To me Kane isn't coming that was my point

Honestly there’s no way to know but IF he truly does to be want driving distance to home (Buffalo) and wants a chance to win a cup, then I don’t see how our odds of signing him wouldn’t be as good as anyone else

 

[IPS]

Great GMs seek out whatever the team needs, regardless of preferences or pressure.

That's not relevant to the point I was trying to make but ok.

 

[supermann_98]

I've seen enough from Gregor, Holmberg and the 3 kids that I'm more than comfortable moving Jarnkrok for literally anything, a 7th rounder or a C level prospect, anything as long as there's no retention.

Absolutely nothing he brings that isn't easily replaced by the combination of our young forwards, and not having to expose anyone to waivers and run a 22-23 man roster is just the cherry on top

 

[Mess]

I've seen enough from Gregor, Holmberg and the 3 kids that I'm more than comfortable moving Jarnkrok for literally anything, a 7th rounder or a C level prospect, anything as long as there's no retention.

Absolutely nothing he brings that isn't easily replaced by the combination of our young forwards, and not having to expose anyone to waivers and run a 22-23 man roster is just the cherry on top

I agree to also help the Leafs become Cap compliant and then sign Gregor on his PTO and then run with a 22-23 man roster.

 

[LeafChief]

It does seem strange that the Leafs have announced injuries for Klingberg, Benoit, Woll (flu), but haven't specifically listed anything for Jarnkrok (unless i missed it) and Jarnkrok seems to have been skating separately from the team.

 

[LeafSteel]

Why not trade him to Tampa? He’s been a below average goalie for years. Tampa running a duo of Jones/Johansson is the best case scenario. The last thing I’d want as a Leafs fan is Tampa making a move for a goaltender who could potentially play well.

…., because history is any player we trade to an opponent becomes an All-Star any and every time we play them.

Having said that, we are clearly going to lose Jones if he’s exposed, so get the best deal you can and whatever happens later happens later….

 

[Stephen]

Why not trade him to Tampa? He’s been a below average goalie for years. Tampa running a duo of Jones/Johansson is the best case scenario. The last thing I’d want as a Leafs fan is Tampa making a move for a goaltender who could potentially play well.

You don’t screw around like that in division and temp some kind of situation where our third stringer burns us.

 

[hamzarocks]

So you are holding injuries against a guy who was highly rated and highly sought after?

Who needs up and coming RD, not the Leafs right?

How about we give him actual playing time so we dont get half assed takes based on feelz?

Timmins isnt up and coming lol

He was up and coming in Col

Now he is a Josh Leivo type too good AHLer but not consistent or complete enough to be a regular NHLer

He isnt anyone to sweat over.

Adam brooks, Josh Leivo, Ozgihanov, type of player

You know constantly stating that he is "repeatedly walked" doesn't make it true.

He had 14 points in 25 games last year and was a plus player.
There is lots to suggest he can do well here.

Leivo had like 15 in 20 in 2017.

Short sample size for a guy who isnt good enough to play consistently on a team with 39 year old Gio as one of the options

He isnt important to the team

 

[Sypher04]

Timmins isnt up and coming lol

He was up and coming in Col

Now he is a Josh Leivo type too good AHLer but not consistent or complete enough to be a regular NHLer

He isnt anyone to sweat over.

Adam brooks, Josh Leivo, Ozgihanov, type of player


Leivo had like 15 in 20 in 2017.

Short sample size for a guy who isnt good enough to play consistently on a team with 39 year old Gio as one of the options

He isnt important to the team

I don’t think this post is really fair.
We don’t yet know what Timmins is or can be at the NHL level. He hasn’t played enough.

 

[hamzarocks]

I don’t think this post is really fair.
We don’t yet know what Timmins is or can be at the NHL level. He hasn’t played enough.

He hasnt played b/c he isnt good enough to play. He wasnt good enough for the Avs, Yotes or now Leafs

Once your 25 its very rare to break onto a team and be an impactful player

Being hopeful for Timmins is just setting yourself up for disappointment

He will play 15-30 games this year and wont be an everyday regular unless we have a major injury

 

[Sypher04]

He hasnt played b/c he isnt good enough to play. He wasnt good enough for the Avs, Yotes or now Leafs

Once your 25 its very rare to break onto a team and be an impactful player

Being hopeful for Timmins is just setting yourself up for disappointment

He will play 15-30 games this year and wont be an everyday regular unless we have a major injury

Well, that’s your opinion I guess.

It’s not rare at all for defensemen to stick in the nhl around 25 and make an impact.

Your last statement may well be true, but acting like he’s a finished product is a little ridiculous

 

[hamzarocks]

Well, that’s your opinion I guess.

It’s not rare at all for defensemen to stick in the nhl around 25 and make an impact.

Your last statement may well be true, but acting like he’s a finished product is a little ridiculous

You dont have much left to sbow or develop at 25

He is a finished product in terms of his size, skating, shooting

At best he improves his instincts and awareness on the ice.

Your time to develope your skills once drafted and hone your body is 18-22 range when your coming up tbe system

At 25 your just looking to implement where your at on a consistent basis at an NHL level.

 

[Stephen]

He hasnt played b/c he isnt good enough to play. He wasnt good enough for the Avs, Yotes or now Leafs

Once your 25 its very rare to break onto a team and be an impactful player

Being hopeful for Timmins is just setting yourself up for disappointment

He will play 15-30 games this year and wont be an everyday regular unless we have a major injury

Conor Timmins is a Bryan McCabe-Ric Jackman style reclamation project. Former top rated defenseman prospect fallen on hard times but still possessing unique upside.

He wouldn’t be here if he didn’t have a tough stretch and we don’t know what he’ll level out as.

More recent project is Justin Holl. He was a second rounder in Chicago turned minor leaguer who didn’t really stabilize as an NHL level defenseman until 28 or so.

 

[Kurtz]

You dont have much left to sbow or develop at 25

He is a finished product in terms of his size, skating, shooting

At best he improves his instincts and awareness on the ice.

Your time to develope your skills once drafted and hone your body is 18-22 range when your coming up tbe system

At 25 your just looking to implement where your at on a consistent basis at an NHL level.

Dmen have very different development schedules than forwards. Often, they won't start to break out until mid/late 20's. Look at Josh Morrisey last year for example. Or Montour.

Or our own Giordano who broke out at 30.

Countless examples like that.

 

[SprDaVE]

Life and development isn't linear. There's really no true science when a player reaches their ceiling or whatever. It isn't black and white. Statistically maybe sure, but that doesn't apply to everything and everyone.

 

[hamzarocks]

Dmen have very different development schedules than forwards. Often, they won't start to break out until mid/late 20's. Look at Josh Morrisey last year for example. Or Montour.

Or our own Giordano who broke out at 30.

Countless examples like that.

All three of Montour, Gio and Morrisey were good players in the NHL at ages 23 to 25

Montour for a deep ducks team with strong defense had

6 in 27 age 23
32 in 80 in age 24
25 in 62 in age 25

Gio had

15 in 48 as a 23 year old
19 in 58 as a 25 year old
His 24 year season he went to the KHL due to contract issues with the flames

Morrisey was the best of the three being a top 4D

31 in 59 as a 23 year old
31 in 65 as a 24 year old
21 in 56 as a a 25 year old

This was after playing in the NHL as a good bottom pairing D for a deep jets defense in his 21 and 22 year old seasons

It simply more common for a player to be an NHL regular by age 25/26 (multiple years of top4 or great bottom pairing service) and then expect a breakout or peak year then expecting Timmins who doesn't have a regular spot yet to break out on the team

It would be great if it happened but its very rare

 

[BertCorbeau]

He hasnt played b/c he isnt good enough to play. He wasnt good enough for the Avs, Yotes or now Leafs

Once your 25 its very rare to break onto a team and be an impactful player

Being hopeful for Timmins is just setting yourself up for disappointment

He will play 15-30 games this year and wont be an everyday regular unless we have a major injury

Not really fair to say he wasn't good enough, injuries have made it difficult for him to get consistent playing time.

The main issue is that he was unable to get a lot of development time in the minors and you can see that occasionally in his game. Nonetheless he has shown a lot of strengths to build on. He just needs to be brought along slowly and in a sheltered role.

Only 66 games so far in the NHL and 52 AHL games in his career. But in those 66 NHL games, 21 points. Including 2 goals and 14 points for Toronto in 25 games last year.

IMO he's a good candidate for late breakout potential.

 

[hamzarocks]

Not really fair to say he wasn't good enough, injuries have made it difficult for him to get consistent playing time.

The main issue is that he was unable to get a lot of development time in the minors and you can see that occasionally in his game. Nonetheless he has shown a lot of strengths to build on. He just needs to be brought along slowly and in a sheltered role.

There isnt room or time to develope a player like that on a team actively contending like the leafs

He has shown a lot of flaws in his games which have led to him not getting playing time as well. Not a great skater, soft for his size, and gets lost in the d-zone to often

His strengths have been his shot in the o-zone, his breakout abilities at times, and his craftiness to get pts in a very small sample size.

He hasnt done enough to be concerned about losing to waivers. If the leafs management group believes in him as a regular then we should dump Giordano via a trade and give him 60-70 games to show what he is capable of.

Otherwise he is a bench utility player that will be out of the org within a year or two

Edit: Just saw he is injured and could be out a long while. Sucks for him, but he is probably done being a viable L/T fit for the leafs with Niemela likely coming up next year or so

 

[LeafChief]

And Timmins is not injured. Left the arena last nice in a brace. Horrible bounce for the kid.