Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Menzinger]

I'm having a tough time seeing Calgary's motivations to make a lot of these prospective Toronto-Calgary deals I'm seeing. If they can't re-sign Lindholm, Zadorov or Hanifin, why would they believe that they'd be able to extend William Nylander? What would they gain from swapping Tanev for Brodie? Under their new GM I have to believe they'll be looking at futures rather than current players when moving most of their expiring contracts.

I also really don't see Calgary as a great trading partner for the Leafs, unless the new GM would want Brodie back (and from the Leafs, tanev for Brodie makes the backend worse imo)

Most proposals involving Nylander and the Flames basically get reduced down to a ufa for ufa type trade which I see as solving neither teams needs.

 

[nuck]

The problem with Brodie (in addition to his 5mil, and declining play) is that he is a 'soft' defensive d-man, with zero offense ...his offense is so bad, its negative; whenever he gets the puck in the offensive zone, its basically the end of any chance we had.
We need a physical stay at home defender, or a solid 2-way defender to replace Brodie.
Hanifin would be a 2-way guy, as he can play defense as well as Brodie and also contribute on offense,
Zadorov would be the stay at home beast.
Tanev is also better than Brodie defensively, and is quite strong and hard to play against.

We used Schenn on the top pairing, and Schenn couldnt skate well when he was 20 years old, and didnt get any better, but, he learned how to minimize his movements, and he 'fit' on the top pairing. Any stay at home guy who cheats on defense rather than offense can fill that role. be it Zadorov, or Tanev if we're talking Cal only.

Peeke should be a target as he's quite good (and cheap), and just slid way down the depth chart in Columbus.

Who would you see him slotting in ahead of? That seems to push Lily and Timmins off the depth chart to 7/8 unless Brodie is moved.

 

[BlueForever75]

Nylander to Seattle would be great though!!!!

Gourde, Larsson, Wright for Nylander and Timmons


Knies-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Robertson
Domi-Gourde-Jarnkrok
Reaves-Kampf-Lafferty

Reilly-Larsson
McCabe-Lilly
Brodie-Klienberg
Gio

 

[Fogelhund]

Would be thrilled to see Leafs get a center like Lindholm.
Problem is Lindholm needs someone like Nylander to generate points.

Maybe Lindholm would re-sign in Calgary if he had a winger like Nylander to skate with?

Target Andersson from the Flames instead.

Calgary is currently dealing with the suggestion that Hanifin and Lindholm don't want to extend. It seems unlikely that Calgary would then turn around and move their #1D out, when the #2D is also going to need to be moved.

No matter what ends up happening in this saga, both teams likely would prefer to have returns where either the player has term, or is willing to extend right away.

Andersson would be a great get for us, but it seems highly improbable that Calgary moves him.

Nylander to Seattle would be great though!!!!

If Nylander has to be moved, that is still my preferred destination, assuming they have a level of interest.

Nylander + Brodie <-> Bjorkstrand + Wright + Larrsson.

 

[mydnyte]

Toronto missed the boat on Toffoli. They definitely could have expanded the deal where Nylander+ went to Calgary and Toffoli + came back to Toronto. Leafs slept on it and lost. There was definitely a deal to be made.

missing that boat is like missing the Titanic.
he's more up and down than a toilet seat, and the only good thing about him is that he's going to be a UFA next season.

 

[ULF_55]

And no i dont want huberdeau and for me nylander is a great candidate to be a huberdeau 2.0... i want to see a real change in leafs philosophy but i still realistic.

For me if leafs trade nylander, a lot of fans will not like what leafs will get for...

Nylander 41% of points are goals.
Huberdeau 32% of points are goals.

Huberdeau 30 years old, 2 season of 30 goals.
Nylander 27 years old, 31, 34, 40 goal seasons.

Are you sure you have the right players here?

 

[mydnyte]

Who would you see him slotting in ahead of? That seems to push Lily and Timmins off the depth chart to 7/8 unless Brodie is moved.

I want Brodie moved.

 

[Fogelhund]

I want Brodie moved.

That's all well and good, but he's still our best defensive D. We need an upgrade, or at least younger replacement if we do that.

 

[ULF_55]

That's all well and good, but he's still our best defensive D. We need an upgrade, or at least younger replacement if we do that.

I really don't like Treliving leaving an excuse in play so he doesn't take blame for not improving the team if things don't work out.

Keefe is the built in excuse if the defense doesn't show improvement.

How'd leaving Babcock in work out in a season many thought he never should have started?

How does not extending Dubas improve team performance when your major change on defense is Klingberg for Holl?

 

[thusk]

Nylander 41% of points are goals.
Huberdeau 32% of points are goals.

Huberdeau 30 years old, 2 season of 30 goals.
Nylander 27 years old, 31, 34, 40 goal seasons.

Are you sure you have the right players here?

20 y/o to today

Nylander 0,84 pts/ game
Vs 0,96 for huberdeau

Last 4 year huberdeau before trade 0,95 goal/60 2,61 pts 60 at 5v5 and 1,08 goal/60 and 2,37 pts for nylander

Last 2 ( before trade for huberdeau) 1,05 goal/60 and 2,79 pts/60 and 1,07 goal/60 2,37 pts/60 for nylander

One was playing along side wennberg, hornqvist, bennett a primary teammate and the second one with tavares and matthews as primary teammate....

 

[Fogelhund]

I really don't like Treliving leaving an excuse in play so he doesn't take blame for not improving the team if things don't work out.

Keefe is the built in excuse if the defense doesn't show improvement.

How'd leaving Babcock in work out in a season many thought he never should have started?

How does not extending Dubas improve team performance when your major change on defense is Klingberg for Holl?

So Treliving needs to make change, for the sake of change, so that he is accountable, instead of Keefe, or Dubas?

 

[TMLAM34]

I don’t think you need to move Brodie for a younger replacement. Tanev who’s only a year older would be a fine replacement to play alongside Rielly.

IMO Brodie is better defensively but Tanev provides what this team lacks while not downgrading a ton on the defensive side.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don’t think you need to move Brodie for a younger replacement. Tanev who’s only a year older would be a fine replacement to play alongside Rielly.

IMO Brodie is better defensively but Tanev provides what this team lacks while not downgrading a ton on the defensive side.

I'm curious as to what it is you think Tanev brings that this team lacks, that Brodie doesn't do?

 

[nuck]

I want Brodie moved.

He would be the logical one. With $7.5M in salary I am not sure if you would get any kind of return and might actually need to pay something. Also I am pretty sure Columbus would be on his list and that list is the other problem.

I would have a bit of a concern Peake was a product of Gavrikov who seems to have been his partner but they were such an awful club defensively and much weaker after the TDL its a hard read. And he has never played behind a strong Jackets lineup so not much history. At -41 he is likely to be at his lowest ever value. I assume that the Leafs would be able to ignore that as the product of his environment unless pro scouting revealed an actual decline in his game.

I was looking at the CBJ stats for last season where they were the second worst defensive club in the league. They must have the kindest official scorers in the league I think. The worst defenseman for giveaways on their team is better than any Leaf D that has played more than 6 games. I don't think that myopia would extend to shot based metrics though.

It would be a bit daring for a GM to move a known quantity for a player like that. Given the cost that might attach to a Brodie move maybe Tre aims for a higher profile guy but that $2.75 AV is pretty attractive.

 

[TMLAM34]

I'm curious as to what it is you think Tanev brings that this team lacks, that Brodie doesn't do?

Toughness.

 

[ULF_55]

20 y/o to today

Nylander 0,84 pts/ game
Vs 0,96 for huberdeau

Last 4 year huberdeau before trade 0,95 goal/60 2,61 pts 60 at 5v5 and 1,08 goal/60 and 2,37 pts for nylander

Last 2 ( before trade for huberdeau) 1,05 goal/60 and 2,79 pts/60 and 1,07 goal/60 2,37 pts/60 for nylander

One was playing along side wennberg, hornqvist, bennett a primary teammate and the second one with tavares and matthews as primary teammate....

Nylander's been playing with Tavares for how many years?

Maybe you can explain how Huberdeau got 85 assists off 33 goals?

 

[Fogelhund]

Toughness.

I'm not sure what you mean by toughness exactly... I mean he does battle in front of the net, but he's more of a shot blocking, taking away the angles kind of guy. He's almost had the same number of hits over his career, as Schenn did last year alone... he's not some physical net front force, or a guy who punishes other teams players. I've always like Tanev, but I'd think the team needs physicality as much as anything else.

 

[TMLAM34]

I'm not sure what you mean by toughness exactly... I mean he does battle in front of the net, but he's more of a shot blocking, taking away the angles kind of guy. He's almost had the same number of hits over his career, as Schenn did last year alone... he's not some physical net front force, or a guy who punishes other teams players. I've always like Tanev, but I'd think the team needs physicality as much as anything else.

If you’re the opposing player, who would you rather go up against in front of the net or in the corners, Brodie or Tanev?

 

[thusk]

Nylander's been playing with Tavares for how many years?

Maybe you can explain how Huberdeau got 85 assists off 33 goals?

You talking like taares is trash...

So for you Wennberg, Bennett, Hornqvist are better than Tavares?

 

[ULF_55]

You talking like taares is trash...

So for you Wennberg, Bennett, Hornqvist are better than Tavares?

85 assists?

 

[ToDavid]

It’s insane how underrated Brodie has become because of a bad couple of weeks, and while he didn’t have a stellar playoff by any means, McCabe didn’t help. That pair simply wasn’t working.

There’s not a lot of guys who have been better than Brodie defensively for the last couple years. With the addition of Klingberg, that’s going to be hard to give up.

If Brad was dead set on adding physicality to our defense, it feels like 2RD was the spot to do it which makes the Klingberg move confusing. He certainly didn’t need to be a July 1 signing. If Dumba doesn’t get the term he wants and opts to sign 1 year, that would have been a much better choice.

 

[shortfuze]

He puts up 0.6 ppg. That's bottom tier 2nd line numbers, while Nylander has elite playoff numbers.

He's been pretty bad.

Maybe you already answered but how does he have elite numbers in the playoffs?

 

[Peace Frog]

Would you do Dobson and Wahlstrom for Nylander?

 

[showtime8]

It’s insane how underrated Brodie has become because of a bad couple of weeks, and while he didn’t have a stellar playoff by any means, McCabe didn’t help. That pair simply wasn’t working.

There’s not a lot of guys who have been better than Brodie defensively for the last couple years. With the addition of Klingberg, that’s going to be hard to give up.

If Brad was dead set on adding physicality to our defense, it feels like 2RD was the spot to do it which makes the Klingberg move confusing. He certainly didn’t need to be a July 1 signing. If Dumba doesn’t get the term he wants and opts to sign 1 year, that would have been a much better choice.

I agree with 2 points in this post.

Brodie is now getting underrated because of the playoffs. But I can understand that people want a decision on him moving forward. If he can't play top pairing minutes with Rielly, does it make sense to slot him in on the left side of the defense with Klingberg? And that puts McCabe in some favourable minutes on the 3rd pair with Liljegren or Timmins.

The other factor is, I'm not sure where Klingberg even fits in this line-up as it is currently constructed. He's not going to bring the best out of Rielly, so the only solution is to give him supported minutes on the 2nd pair. To me, I think this was a rushed decision and I still think there could have been some value contracts available 3 weeks into summer. I think this may have been a misstep considering these factors.

 

[Fogelhund]

If you’re the opposing player, who would you rather go up against in front of the net or in the corners, Brodie or Tanev?

Option C to be honest. If you are going to make it difficult to play in front of the net, or go into the corners, make a meaningful change.