Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[showtime8]

Would you do Dobson and Wahlstrom for Nylander?

I wouldn't. Although it's not far off, I just don't know if Dobson is the guy that I would target.

 

[thusk]

85 assists?

More of his assist was on pp playing the same king of role than marner in toronto...

17 goal and 33 assist at 5v5 with Bennett

This season nylander had 22 goal 27 assist at 5v5 playing alongside matthews...

 

[Fogelhund]

It’s insane how underrated Brodie has become because of a bad couple of weeks, and while he didn’t have a stellar playoff by any means, McCabe didn’t help. That pair simply wasn’t working.

There’s not a lot of guys who have been better than Brodie defensively for the last couple years. With the addition of Klingberg, that’s going to be hard to give up.

If Brad was dead set on adding physicality to our defense, it feels like 2RD was the spot to do it which makes the Klingberg move confusing. He certainly didn’t need to be a July 1 signing. If Dumba doesn’t get the term he wants and opts to sign 1 year, that would have been a much better choice.

The challenge is needing both a better mix at moving the puck and some physicality.

I agree that Brodie is being undervalued, and also found the Klingberg acquisition confusing.

If we keep Nylander, it’s going to be difficult to really make the type of change needed.

 

[arso40]

It’s insane how underrated Brodie has become because of a bad couple of weeks, and while he didn’t have a stellar playoff by any means, McCabe didn’t help. That pair simply wasn’t working.

There’s not a lot of guys who have been better than Brodie defensively for the last couple years. With the addition of Klingberg, that’s going to be hard to give up.

If Brad was dead set on adding physicality to our defense, it feels like 2RD was the spot to do it which makes the Klingberg move confusing. He certainly didn’t need to be a July 1 signing. If Dumba doesn’t get the term he wants and opts to sign 1 year, that would have been a much better choice.

Tanev is a better defencemen as well as a better fit are we really discussing this?

 

[Rude Dog]

It’s insane how underrated Brodie has become because of a bad couple of weeks, and while he didn’t have a stellar playoff by any means, McCabe didn’t help. That pair simply wasn’t working.

There’s not a lot of guys who have been better than Brodie defensively for the last couple years. With the addition of Klingberg, that’s going to be hard to give up.

If Brad was dead set on adding physicality to our defense, it feels like 2RD was the spot to do it which makes the Klingberg move confusing. He certainly didn’t need to be a July 1 signing. If Dumba doesn’t get the term he wants and opts to sign 1 year, that would have been a much better choice.

He's been one of (if not the best) Leaf free agent signing in decades. It's amazing how we can all watch the same game yet feel so completely different about the players on this team. Brodie is the least of this teams problems.

 

[arso40]

He's been one of (if not the best) Leaf free agent signing in decades. It's amazing how we can all watch the same game yet feel so completely different about the players on this team. Brodie is the least of this teams problems.

I’m not gonna dispute that cause that list of good free agent signings only has kampf bunting samsonov mikayhev and maybe jarnkrok on it in saying that Brodie has been solid for us but tanev is a better fit with Reilly then everyone else can slot in better spots

 

[andora]

The challenge is needing both a better mix at moving the puck and some physicality.

I agree that Brodie is being undervalued, and also found the Klingberg acquisition confusing.

If we keep Nylander, it’s going to be difficult to really make the type of change needed.

We cant to be honest.. a chunk of money needs to move in order to make an impact change..

The only other way is if the pro scouts hit a home run with a cheap guy ready for prime breakout and we get him for a 5th cause noone expects it

 

[kb]

Two years at $7.8 million, put up 55 points last year, while putting up terrible defensive metrics.

The 31-year-old Kuznetsov is in the second-to-last season of his current contract that carries a salary cap hit of $7.8 million, according to PuckPedia. He also has a 15-team no-trade clause, so there’s a limited market for his services. Also hurting his trade chances is his struggles on offense; in 2022-23, he managed only 12 goals, his worst full-season total since his NHL rookie year of 2014-15.

Kuznetsov is coming off what general manager Brian MacLellan called a disappointing season, as he struggled to find consistency and ended up with 12 goals, 43 assists and a plus-minus of minus-26 through 81 games, a far cry from a standout 2021-22 campaign that saw him bounce back from on-ice and off-ice issues.

Fair to say, I'd have no interest.

I vaguely remember some speculation/reports about Kuznetsov being part of why they let Samsonov go....the two together were a bad influence on each other or something to that effect and one had to go?

Plus the fact he's decidedly mediocre now - while making almost a million more than Nylander - makes this an easy hard pass.

 

[Menzinger]

I vaguely remember some speculation/reports about Kuznetsov being part of why they let Samsonov go....the two together were a bad influence on each other or something to that effect and one had to go?

Plus the fact he's decidedly mediocre now - while making almost a million more than Nylander - makes this an easy hard pass.

And teams without a 1C will probably outbid the Leafs

 

[Fogelhund]

Tanev is a better defencemen as well as a better fit are we really discussing this?

So why does Calgary do that swap then?

 

[kb]

If you’re the opposing player, who would you rather go up against in front of the net or in the corners, Brodie or Tanev?

Both or neither. They are very much the same player, but Tanev is glass - only once in his career has he played more than 70 games.

Are you basing this take on Tanev's 6 more pounds of weight (and even less hitting)?

What exactly do you think Tanev is?

 

[mydnyte]

That's all well and good, but he's still our best defensive D. We need an upgrade, or at least younger replacement if we do that.

yes, our defense still needs an overhaul.
right now i see it as

Reilly - xxx
xxx - Klingberg
McCabe - Lil
Gio - Timmins (extras)

Brodie out and Nylander out to fill at least one of those 2 spots or both.
I'd target Peeke as one guy that wouldnt cost Nylander to get that could come at a good price with how far down the pecking order he is now with the new additions in Columbus
then Nylander for Hanafin/Pesce or a d-man of that ilk
Brodie for a meaner stay at home type, ala Zadorov ...Brodie may technically be 'better' but, Zadorov would be a better fit (or a like player that is tougher and cheaper than Brodie and plays the stay at home game
I'd even consider Brodie for Ritsolanien ...he has a bad rep, but, he is tough if he can be focused,... but, i'd want some retention on him though.

 

[arso40]

So why does Calgary do that swap then?

I don’t believe they would to be honest if they do they need a new gm

 

[mydnyte]

I'm curious as to what it is you think Tanev brings that this team lacks, that Brodie doesn't do?

personally, i think Tanev is on a tier higher than Brodie defensively ...and he's Strong. Brodie is mush

 

[kb]

Tanev is a better defencemen as well as a better fit are we really discussing this?

Go find the metrics on who the best NHL defensive Dmen were last season. You may just be surprised.

 

[nuck]

I'm not sure what you mean by toughness exactly... I mean he does battle in front of the net, but he's more of a shot blocking, taking away the angles kind of guy. He's almost had the same number of hits over his career, as Schenn did last year alone... he's not some physical net front force, or a guy who punishes other teams players. I've always like Tanev, but I'd think the team needs physicality as much as anything else.

I think a healthy Tanev is a better fit than Brodie but its a 1 year move and there are younger and less expensive players that can bridge the Schenn to Brodie gap. I would have definitely done this a few years ago if I suspected Tanev would be this durable but if he repeats 23-24 that doesn't move the needle much, if any.

 

[Fogelhund]

yes, our defense still needs an overhaul.
right now i see it as

Reilly - xxx
xxx - Klingberg
McCabe - Lil
Gio - Timmins (extras)

Brodie out and Nylander out to fill at least one of those 2 spots or both.
I'd target Peeke as one guy that wouldnt cost Nylander to get that could come at a good price with how far down the pecking order he is now with the new additions in Columbus
then Nylander for Hanafin/Pesce or a d-man of that ilk
Brodie for a meaner stay at home type, ala Zadorov ...Brodie may technically be 'better' but, Zadorov would be a better fit (or a like player that is tougher and cheaper than Brodie and plays the stay at home game
I'd even consider Brodie for Ritsolanien ...he has a bad rep, but, he is tough if he can be focused,... but, i'd want some retention on him though.

Risto is legitimately bad. I mean that would be terrible. Brodie for Risto. Ugh. What are we even talking about here?

 

[mydnyte]

He would be the logical one. With $7.5M in salary I am not sure if you would get any kind of return and might actually need to pay something. Also I am pretty sure Columbus would be on his list and that list is the other problem.

I would have a bit of a concern Peake was a product of Gavrikov who seems to have been his partner but they were such an awful club defensively and much weaker after the TDL its a hard read. And he has never played behind a strong Jackets lineup so not much history. At -41 he is likely to be at his lowest ever value. I assume that the Leafs would be able to ignore that as the product of his environment unless pro scouting revealed an actual decline in his game.

I was looking at the CBJ stats for last season where they were the second worst defensive club in the league. They must have the kindest official scorers in the league I think. The worst defenseman for giveaways on their team is better than any Leaf D that has played more than 6 games. I don't think that myopia would extend to shot based metrics though.

It would be a bit daring for a GM to move a known quantity for a player like that. Given the cost that might attach to a Brodie move maybe Tre aims for a higher profile guy but that $2.75 AV is pretty attractive.

i think Peeke will be the next Pesce ...i'd take the gamble, and the few times i watched him play, i've been mostly impressed

 

[arso40]

Go find the metrics on who the best NHL defensive Dmen were last season. You may just be surprised.

Metrics schmetrics I watch hoccey and tanev is the better fit with Rielly barring he stays healthy of course

 

[Fogelhund]

i think Peeke will be the next Pesce ...i'd take the gamble, and the few times i watched him play, i've been mostly impressed

I like Peeke. Good contract, had a down year on a bad team last year. I’d take him for lower in the lineup, but not sure how we’d get him.

Metrics schmetrics I watch hoccey and tanev is the better fit with Rielly barring he stays healthy of course

I mean. LOL.

Would I agree he might be a better fit with Mo… sure.

But better defensively, no.. they are pretty close really. The regular injury history is of concern.

 

[Mess]

yes, our defense still needs an overhaul.
right now i see it as

Reilly - xxx
xxx - Klingberg
McCabe - Lil
Gio - Timmins (extras)

Brodie out and Nylander out to fill at least one of those 2 spots or both.

That is exactly how I Leafs defense depth chart as well .. Both Rielly and Klingberg need top 4 partners 1 RHD and 1 LHD with strong physical and defensive awareness.

Brodie needs to go because you need his $5 mil cap space to replace a top 4 Dman and Willy in trade would be the most likely way to land the other top 4 Dman.

40 year old Grandpa Gio should retire and at best be a part time player this year and Timmins also the #6/7 depth in case of injuries.

As the summer began I thought the Leafs needed to swap out 3 of their 6 Dmen Brodie, Gio and Holl and replace them, but I would have preferred to keep Schenn is possible.

 

[mydnyte]

He's been one of (if not the best) Leaf free agent signing in decades. It's amazing how we can all watch the same game yet feel so completely different about the players on this team. Brodie is the least of this teams problems.

Brodie had a rough start to the season, and a very rough end ...and playing next to Holl as often as he did can make anyone look worse than they are.
But, he's on his last year, on the decline, offers zero offense, and is 'weak' physically
Right now he's the only candidate on D that we can move because our D is likely the softest in the league right now, and has been our Achilles heel for quite a while

 

[ToDavid]

Tanev is a better defencemen as well as a better fit are we really discussing this?

Maybe by a hair. They've both been top defensive defensemen for the past few years. Fit is impossible to predict. We know Brodie plays well with Rielly. We think Tanev might.

Like sure, if Calgary wants to swap the two players straight up we'll take the right shot and $500k cap savings, but that's unlikely. I don't think it's a particularly impactful move and not something worth giving up a lot of assets for.

 

[Fogelhund]

Maybe by a hair. They've both been top defensive defensemen for the past few years. Fit is impossible to predict. We know Brodie plays well with Rielly. We think Tanev might.

Like sure, if Calgary wants to swap the two players straight up we'll take the right shot and $500k cap savings, but that's unlikely. I don't think it's a particularly impactful move and not something worth giving up a lot of assets for.

Rielly and Tanev paired at the World Hockey championship previously. They were excellent together.

 

[mydnyte]

So why does Calgary do that swap then?

they wouldnt unless its part of a bigger package/deal
i.e. add Timmins and they may consider it, as they are likely also dealing Hanifin and Timmins can at least be a PP contributor and is controllable