Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

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He puts up 0.6 ppg. That's bottom tier 2nd line numbers, while Nylander has elite playoff numbers.

He's been pretty bad.
That’s why it will be Lindholm plus for Willie and not the other way around.

Nylander will get more money than Lindholm because he’s a Leaf and not because of massive separation between the two. Nylander’s comparisons can be either in-house or cherry picked across league precedents whereas Lindholm probably gets compared to a Sebastian Aho.
Aho is not a good comparison as Lindholm doesn’t strike me as someone who see the ice like Aho.
Lindholm is more like Horvat and Kadri(with the Leafs before AM), not in terms of playing style but more like a 2C but needs to play 1C due to team having a 1C
 
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If i using your logic
Scheifele was producing
- More pts/gm
- more goal/game

Both regular season and playoff ( so also better playoff performer) than Patrice Bergeron

so Scheifele is a better player than Bergeron

When youre just so obcess about offensive and forget everything else player bringing to the game... thats exactly the same thing scheifele vs bergeron and nylander vs Lindholm

Lindholm is an elite 2 way center and one of best defensive C in NHL not as good than bergeron but pretty close, nylander is a one dimentionnal offensie foward coming with huge defensie issue like Scheifele.. whos here would be ready to pay Scheifele at 27 a higher price than bergeron at 28?

Do you want a team build like Boston bruins or tampa bay ( with a similar kind of player than brayden point) or prefer to build a kind of Winnipeg jet team?
Lindholm is really not as good as you describe.
Willie is better at Defense than Schef. The problem with Willie is that he is fine playing D in the Neutral Zone as witnessed by his take away but he lacks positional sense in the Dzone. That’s why Willie looks bad defensively.

Lindholm is your prototypical 2C. Someone who the coach can use as match up C while also able to produce offense. Like Kreji, Cirelli and to some extend ROR(Schenn is more the 1C with the Blues till they won the Cup).

Having AM and Lindholm are really good 1-2 punch down the middle.
 
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That’s why it will be Lindholm plus for Willie and not the other way around.


Aho is not a good comparison as Lindholm doesn’t strike me as someone who see the ice like Aho.
Lindholm is more like Horvat and Kadri(with the Leafs before AM), not in terms of playing style but more like a 2C but needs to play 1C due to team having a 1C
False, so wrong. Wingers Don't have alot of value than a two way C. It remains funny how some think Nylander being a free agent in cap trouble world won't impact his value, much less In normal year
 
False, so wrong. Wingers Don't have alot of value than a two way C. It remains funny how some think Nylander being a free agent in cap trouble world won't impact his value, much less In normal year
Your right that centers are more valuable and lindholm is solid defensively but you saw the difference a Johnny and chuccy make he had solid players on his line and looked more like a great 2nd line center no matter who you put Willy with he looks like an elite forward I would argue Willy’s value should be higher than lindholm no knocc on him though still a very good player id argue him with Tavares wouldn’t look as good as you think it would
 
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If we trade Murray to another team can they buy him out right away? I’m guessing there’s a rule there about not being able to……cause if not, 800k this season and 2m next season should be a super easy dump?
 
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If we trade Murray to another team can they buy him out right away? I’m guessing there’s a rule there about not being able to……cause if not, 800k this season and 2m next season should be a super easy dump?
We did it with Marleau a few years back.
 
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He's not a free agent in a cap trouble world. He's a free agent in a rapidly expanding cap world.

He's not even a free agent.

He's under contract for the next year.

And you can't play if you don't have a contract, so he never has been a hold-out. Being a hold-out is when you have a contract and refuse to play, I think Yashin was the last hold-out. Refusing to sign an unacceptable contract is not being a hold-out.

He'll be a free agent July 1st. 2024, unless he signs an extension before that date.
 
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Lindholm is really not as good as you describe.
Willie is better at Defense than Schef. The problem with Willie is that he is fine playing D in the Neutral Zone as witnessed by his take away but he lacks positional sense in the Dzone. That’s why Willie looks bad defensively.

Lindholm is your prototypical 2C. Someone who the coach can use as match up C while also able to produce offense. Like Kreji, Cirelli and to some extend ROR(Schenn is more the 1C with the Blues till they won the Cup).

Having AM and Lindholm are really good 1-2 punch down the middle.
Last 2 season he finished 2nd and 10th on selke and was producing at a similar rate than nylander last 2. But yes nylander offensivly is better...

And no nylander is not better defensivly than scheifele, the biggest difference its hes playing wing unstead of center so his defensive doesn't affevt as much than scheifele at C.

Lack of defensive commitment by nylander is huge... in regular season, its fine and doesn't affect leafs as much because he can compensate by his speed and can still make play in neutral zone like you said with his speed... but in playoff, thats really hurt the team. Nylander is the perfect definition of soft player. Hes bad defensivly because hes soft and doing every thing to avoid the slot and physical contact...

Exemple moving from nylander to lindholm, did leafs are better in term of skill? The answer is no, they are worst.

Are they better as a team and harder to play against? The answer is yes.

If you want to create a playoff identity to the team, you need to bring in players who will play the right way and move out player whos not... and its starting by how you defend...better your defending, more time you will get the puck, most time who will play tie game or with a lead and result you will get more offensive oppprtunities...

Vegas, colorado, tampa, stl, washington, pittsburgh, lak, chicago... take every team who want, everything started by how you defending..Colorado vs tampa defensivly was just so nice to watch, tampa was just totally unable to reach avs territory with the puck.
 


NHL INSIDER DAVID PAGNOTTA PROVIDES UPDATE ON ILYA SAMSONOV, MATT MURRAY + MORE | Leafs Morning Take

The Leafs Nation

July 16, 2023 #leafsforever #torontomapleleafs #nhl

Since a busy first few days of free agency, it's been very quiet on the Leafs front. Having said that, with Ilya Samsonov's arbitration hearing scheduled for July 21st, Toronto's crease situation heading into next season will finally be sorted out soon. NHL Insider David Pagnotta (The Fourth Period, SiriusXM NHL Network Radio, NHL Network) joined Nick Alberga to discuss the very latest on that front. Additionally, they hit on William Nylander, Auston Matthews, & Toronto's D search, among other things.


The Toronto Maple Leafs have already been relatively active this offseason, but despite that it sounds like the Leafs may have a big week ahead of them.

Not only will general manager Brad Treliving have to deal with the arbitration hearing for Ilya Samsonov set for this coming Friday, but the Leafs are also expected to either trade or buyout veteran goaltender Matt Murray when the buyout window opens up.

On top of this, recently National Hockey League insider David Pagnotta revealed that the Maple Leafs are hoping to add yet another piece over the course of the offseason, a stay-at-home type of defenseman.

"They'd like to," said Pagnotta when asked about the likelihood of the Maple Leafs adding to their blue line this summer. "They'd like to add a responsible guy because they added the offensive unit in [John] Klingberg."


Pagnotta largely dismissed the rumors that have linked the Maple Leafs to Carolina Hurricanes defenseman Brett Pesce, but rattled off a few other names that the Leafs might target.

"Noah Hanifin, I know there's ties there," said Pagnotta. "Nikita Zadorov more physical and defensive minded. Those are the two guys in Calgary that they are looking to move. Chris Tanev is out there too and he would be a great fit."

All of those players would come with their corresponding cap hits, and that raises questions about how the Leafs would make this all fit under the salary cap. Pagnotta had an answer for that as well, suggesting that moving veteran Maple Leafs defenseman T.J. Brodie may be part of the plan from Treliving.

"That also by the way likely means that someone else has to go, and that might explain why T.J. Brodie's name has been out there the last few weeks."


Moving Brodie to pickup a different stay at home defenseman just feels like shuffling the deck chairs.

Zadorov would be a good pickup as he actually gives us something we’re lacking. But that’s a good pickup for 3LD, not a Brodie replacement.

Other than the Calgary guys, I’m not sure who’s out there. Tanev is basically an older Brodie that saves you $500k on the cap. Hanifin would be great if the price is right. But a US team is probably willing to pay more if they think they can extend him. And that still opens a gap on the right side.

If they were dead set on moving Brodie it would have made sense try harder to keep Schenn. Not as good of a defenseman obviously but he’s found a niche over the last couple years playing next to skilled offensive partners (Hughes, Rielly).
 
Even if it's not Lindholm, our Center position is looking extremely shaky the minute Tavares totally declines (and you will get a very different answer from many on just how much he already has).

To me Kampf is strictly a defensive minded 4th line C and should not be put on a line that you hope consistently creates offense.
 
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I'm having a tough time seeing Calgary's motivations to make a lot of these prospective Toronto-Calgary deals I'm seeing. If they can't re-sign Lindholm, Zadorov or Hanifin, why would they believe that they'd be able to extend William Nylander? What would they gain from swapping Tanev for Brodie? Under their new GM I have to believe they'll be looking at futures rather than current players when moving most of their expiring contracts.
 
Moving Brodie to pickup a different stay at home defenseman just feels like shuffling the deck chairs.

Zadorov would be a good pickup as he actually gives us something we’re lacking. But that’s a good pickup for 3LD, not a Brodie replacement.

Other than the Calgary guys, I’m not sure who’s out there. Tanev is basically an older Brodie that saves you $500k on the cap. Hanifin would be great if the price is right. But a US team is probably willing to pay more if they think they can extend him. And that still opens a gap on the right side.

If they were dead set on moving Brodie it would have made sense try harder to keep Schenn. Not as good of a defenseman obviously but he’s found a niche over the last couple years playing next to skilled offensive partners (Hughes, Rielly).
The problem with Brodie (in addition to his 5mil, and declining play) is that he is a 'soft' defensive d-man, with zero offense ...his offense is so bad, its negative; whenever he gets the puck in the offensive zone, its basically the end of any chance we had.
We need a physical stay at home defender, or a solid 2-way defender to replace Brodie.
Hanifin would be a 2-way guy, as he can play defense as well as Brodie and also contribute on offense,
Zadorov would be the stay at home beast.
Tanev is also better than Brodie defensively, and is quite strong and hard to play against.

We used Schenn on the top pairing, and Schenn couldnt skate well when he was 20 years old, and didnt get any better, but, he learned how to minimize his movements, and he 'fit' on the top pairing. Any stay at home guy who cheats on defense rather than offense can fill that role. be it Zadorov, or Tanev if we're talking Cal only.

Peeke should be a target as he's quite good (and cheap), and just slid way down the depth chart in Columbus.
 
If we trade Murray to another team can they buy him out right away? I’m guessing there’s a rule there about not being able to……cause if not, 800k this season and 2m next season should be a super easy dump?
Yes and No.

Technically there is nothing illegal about trading a player and then having another team buy that player out.. Leafs traded Marleau with their 1st round pick, and Carolina bought out Patty Marleau contract.

However the catch here is there are 2 buyout windows in the NHL CBA, the 1st one occurs after the entry draft and before free agency begins July 1st at which time all teams can participate with no strings attached..

BUT ...

Only teams that have players that chose to go to Arbitration, get a 2nd opportunity for a 2nd buyout window... Leafs get one only because Samsonov chose that process. So for your idea to fly NOW, Leafs could only trade him to another team that also had a player choose arbitration process thus granting them a 2nd buyout window that follows shortly after the case is/was scheduled. The other catch is Murray contract comes with a "10 Team No Trade Clause". So Murray also can block a trade himself to 1/3 of the NHL teams thus preventing a buyout and allow him to get his full $8 mil salary this year.

So that leaves only teams with an Arbitration case & on Murray's trade list... Good Luck with that !! :wg:

PS. There was only 22 players including Sammy that chose Arbitration. and some teams had multiple players like Seattle (QTY 3), so total # of teams is very small.
 
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What does everyone think of Evgeny Kuznetsov? Apparently, he has asked for a trade. Could he be a good option for 2C?
 
I'm having a tough time seeing Calgary's motivations to make a lot of these prospective Toronto-Calgary deals I'm seeing. If they can't re-sign Lindholm, Zadorov or Hanifin, why would they believe that they'd be able to extend William Nylander? What would they gain from swapping Tanev for Brodie? Under their new GM I have to believe they'll be looking at futures rather than current players when moving most of their expiring contracts.
In regards to Tanev for Brodie exchange conversation..

That has technically already occurred once before.. While Brad Treliving was the Flames GM he let TJ Brodie ($5 mil) walk as a UFA unwilling to pay him is ask, and then replaced him via Free Agency by signing Tanev ($4.5 mil) in the Summer of 2020.

So as far as Leafs new GM BT is concerned anyways he already once made the decision to move on from Brodie for Tanev in his past.
 
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Yes and No.

Technically there is nothing illegal about trading a player and then having another team buy that player out.. Leafs traded Marleau with their 1st round pick, and Carolina bought out Patty Marleau contract.

However the catch here is there are 2 buyout windows in the NHL CBA, the 1st one occurs after the entry draft and before free agency begins July 1st at which time all teams can participate with no strings attached..

BUT ...

Only teams that have players that chose to go to Arbitration, get a 2nd opportunity for a 2nd buyout window... Leafs get one only because Samsonov chose that process. So for your idea to fly NOW, Leafs could only trade him to another team that also had a player choose arbitration process thus granting them a 2nd buyout window that follows shortly after the case is/was scheduled. The other catch is Murray contract comes with a "10 Team No Trade Clause". So Murray also can block a trade himself to 1/3 of the NHL teams thus preventing a buyout and allow him to get his full $8 mil salary this year.

So that leaves only teams with an Arbitration case & on Murray's trade list... Good Luck with that !! :wg:

PS. There was only 22 players including Sammy that chose Arbitration. and some teams had multiple players like Seattle (QTY 3), so total # of teams is very small.

Kick the can down the road.

If no one wants him buy-out.

Worry about the cap penalty next year, it's only $2mm, and Brodie is off the books and perhaps the Leafs have drafted a player, not in the first round in the last decade, that can make the team on defense? It isn't like Brodie is anything more than a 2nd. pairing at best today. The bar isn't really that high.
 
Would be thrilled to see Leafs get a center like Lindholm.
Problem is Lindholm needs someone like Nylander to generate points.

Maybe Lindholm would re-sign in Calgary if he had a winger like Nylander to skate with?

Target Andersson from the Flames instead.

Calgary will not trade his #1 d coming with a great contract for a winger who asking 10M

Asking for andersson and calgary will probably request leafs adding knies
 
Calgary will not trade his #1 d coming with a great contract for a winger who asking 10M

Asking for andersson and calgary will probably request leafs adding knies

Maybe they'd prefer to trade their $10.5mm 30 year old 55 point, 15 goal scoring winger instead? I'm sure you'd be fine with moving Nylander for that. Next up is getting rid of Liljegren. Then Holmberg and Jarnkrok and we'd be fine. Right?
 
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Would be thrilled to see Leafs get a center like Lindholm.
Problem is Lindholm needs someone like Nylander to generate points.

Maybe Lindholm would re-sign in Calgary if he had a winger like Nylander to skate with?

Target Andersson from the Flames instead.
Exactly hit the nail on the head
 
Kick the can down the road.

If no one wants him buy-out.

Worry about the cap penalty next year, it's only $2mm, and Brodie is off the books and perhaps the Leafs have drafted a player, not in the first round in the last decade, that can make the team on defense? It isn't like Brodie is anything more than a 2nd. pairing at best today. The bar isn't really that high.
Agreed.
All we know is that there was only 1 GM gullible :dunce: enough in the past to touch that butt ugly Murray contract, and he did it for a mid round (3rd) and late round (7th) and that was with 2 years left. :pullhair:

Now with only 1 year left, you would have thought BT might :crossfing have been able to find another sucker to take on that deal with a sweetener tossed in, but it would have most likely already happened at the previous entry draft 2023 just concluded if that were to happen. IMO .. I LOL at the idea, and was dubious that there would be another GM naive enough to buy a mid round pick for a goalie that is still owed $6 mil in real salary, with his injury history and unreliability.

I have to give Treliving props for not buying Murray out is the first buyout window, and not foolish enough to deal another 1st round pick to undo a poor goalie decision of the past, like we have witnessed previously. So while its not over until its over, holding out and exhausting all possibilities until a 2nd buyout window opened is the best a GM could really do that inherited this mess.

A Murray contract buyout was always the most probable outcome anyways and taking the $2 mil dead cap penalty next season, and chalking that up to previous GM incompetence, for me anyways.

PS.. Who is that so called drafted defenseman in the past 5 drafts to replace Brodie internally that you might be referring to Topo Gigio? Sorry I was thinking back to the Ed Sullivan days there, I guess you mean Topi Niemela. :sarcasm:
 
Maybe they'd prefer to trade their $10.5mm 30 year old 55 point, 15 goal scoring winger instead? I'm sure you'd be fine with moving Nylander for that. Next up is getting rid of Liljegren. Then Holmberg and Jarnkrok and we'd be fine. Right?

And no i dont want huberdeau and for me nylander is a great candidate to be a huberdeau 2.0... i want to see a real change in leafs philosophy but i still realistic.

For me if leafs trade nylander, a lot of fans will not like what leafs will get for...
 
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Toronto missed the boat on Toffoli. They definitely could have expanded the deal where Nylander+ went to Calgary and Toffoli + came back to Toronto. Leafs slept on it and lost. There was definitely a deal to be made.
 
What does everyone think of Evgeny Kuznetsov? Apparently, he has asked for a trade. Could he be a good option for 2C?

Two years at $7.8 million, put up 55 points last year, while putting up terrible defensive metrics.

The 31-year-old Kuznetsov is in the second-to-last season of his current contract that carries a salary cap hit of $7.8 million, according to PuckPedia. He also has a 15-team no-trade clause, so there’s a limited market for his services. Also hurting his trade chances is his struggles on offense; in 2022-23, he managed only 12 goals, his worst full-season total since his NHL rookie year of 2014-15.

Kuznetsov is coming off what general manager Brian MacLellan called a disappointing season, as he struggled to find consistency and ended up with 12 goals, 43 assists and a plus-minus of minus-26 through 81 games, a far cry from a standout 2021-22 campaign that saw him bounce back from on-ice and off-ice issues.


Fair to say, I'd have no interest.
 
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