Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Apex Predator]

If we're playing the hindsight game, there were much better pathways than just drafting Konecny at 24.
It also seems odd that certain individuals suddenly value Konecny so highly, considering he's an undersized winger that's been horrific in the playoffs.

Our 2018, 2020, and 2022 trade downs all look like wins so far. Funny how that happens when you don't have Hunter screwing up the draft.

What were the trade downs just curious to see how they look right now. I do remmeber at one time that trade down was looking like a winner with Dermott and Bracco coming off a 70 point AHL season. Who knows how those will look in a few seasons.

 

[Menzinger]

1. I don't think Lindholm will ask for 8mil
2. Lindholm will be a good 2C behind AM
3. Won't do a WIllie for Lindholm 1 for 1 deal and will like to see what the Flames will add.

Ideally, it will be Willie plus TJ for Lindholm and Anderssen or Lindholm, Tanev plus a 1st rounder if Willie extend or a 2nd if Willie doesn't

Personally I think 8 is probably the floor of any future contract for him

A rare thing for a top six centres to hit free agency. Any extension will be costly

 

[TMLAM34]

Personally I think 8 is probably the floor of any future contract for him

A rare thing for a top six centres to hit free agency. Any extension will be costly

Agreed, I think you’re looking at 8.5 million per on an extension with Lindholm.

 

[Menzinger]

How do you justify the extra added to lindholm for nylander?

Nylanders the better producers, goal scorer and playoff performer.

 

[andora]

Nylanders the better producers, goal scorer and playoff performer.

But on the flip you get a center, selke top 10 voted impact, good faceoffs, penalty killer, playoffs nylander has produced more but it looks like every 6th game you would get the extra point from willy

Shrug.. i dont see how a 1 for 1 isnt relatively equal

 

[Gabriel426]

How do you justify the extra added to lindholm for nylander?

Willie is a better player

 

[Gabriel426]

Personally I think 8 is probably the floor of any future contract for him

A rare thing for a top six centres to hit free agency. Any extension will be costly

Thats true. But Miller, although is known as LW but actually play C quite often on the Nucks signed 8mil last summer. His production are better than Lindholm and also PK too. It is also true that Miller is older than Lindholm.

The other comparable is Horvat but Islanders needed to extend him more than anything plus Horvat was on a career heater before getting traded.

 

[Duffman955]

But on the flip you get a center, selke top 10 voted impact, good faceoffs, penalty killer, playoffs nylander has produced more but it looks like every 6th game you would get the extra point from willy

Shrug.. i dont see how a 1 for 1 isnt relatively equal

Isn't Lindholm known as an absolute garbage playoff player? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Also Nylander just out produced him by 30 points in regular season

 

[Gabriel426]

Isn't Lindholm known as an absolute garbage playoff player? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Also Nylander just out produced him by 30 points in regular season

Think he is alright compare to his regular season output.

 

[Duffman955]

Think he is alright compare to his regular season output.

He puts up 0.6 ppg. That's bottom tier 2nd line numbers, while Nylander has elite playoff numbers.

He's been pretty bad.

 

[andora]

Willie is a better player

Cause he does some things better than lindholm who does other things better than nylander

He puts up 0.6 ppg. That's bottom tier 2nd line numbers, while Nylander has elite playoff numbers.

He's been pretty bad.

Elite? Isnt he .8

 

[Stephen]

Nylanders the better producers, goal scorer and playoff performer.

Nylander will get more money than Lindholm because he’s a Leaf and not because of massive separation between the two. Nylander’s comparisons can be either in-house or cherry picked across league precedents whereas Lindholm probably gets compared to a Sebastian Aho.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

What if Nylander won't extend at any amount?
This is possible, especially if he wants to pull a Matthews and have another UFA date in 3 years.

Would you do 1 year rental of Calgary Lindholm for 1 year rental of Nylander?

If the other teams are offering shitty deals for Willy...I would do it just for the change to the teams dynamic. Why not? It's not like we won a lot of playoff series with what we have now. If Lindholm ends up playing well for us...we extend him.

 

[thusk]

Nylanders the better producers, goal scorer and playoff performer.

If i using your logic
Scheifele was producing
- More pts/gm
- more goal/game

Both regular season and playoff ( so also better playoff performer) than Patrice Bergeron

so Scheifele is a better player than Bergeron

When youre just so obcess about offensive and forget everything else player bringing to the game... thats exactly the same thing scheifele vs bergeron and nylander vs Lindholm

Lindholm is an elite 2 way center and one of best defensive C in NHL not as good than bergeron but pretty close, nylander is a one dimentionnal offensie foward coming with huge defensie issue like Scheifele.. whos here would be ready to pay Scheifele at 27 a higher price than bergeron at 28?

Do you want a team build like Boston bruins or tampa bay ( with a similar kind of player than brayden point) or prefer to build a kind of Winnipeg jet team?

 

[Dekes For Days]

What were the trade downs just curious to see how they look right now.

Bokk (25) for Sandin (29) and SDA (76).
Kleven (44) for Hirvonen (59) and Niemela (64).
Gustafson (79) for Moldenhauer (95) and Grebenkin (135 - KHL rookie of the year).

 

[Menzinger]

If i using your logic
Scheifele was producing
- More pts/gm
- more goal/game

Both regular season and playoff ( so also better playoff performer) than Patrice Bergeron

so Scheifele is a better player than Bergeron

When youre just so obcess about offensive and forget everything else player bringing to the game... thats exactly the same thing scheifele vs bergeron and nylander vs Lindholm

Lindholm is an elite 2 way center and one of best defensive C in NHL not as good than bergeron but pretty close, nylander is a one dimentionnal offensie foward coming with huge defensie issue like Scheifele.. whos here would be ready to pay Scheifele at 27 a higher price than bergeron at 28?

Do you want a team build like Boston bruins or tampa bay ( with a similar kind of player than brayden point) or prefer to build a kind of Winnipeg jet team?

I think you're really overrating Lindholm in this example. Bergeron has led a team to the cup finals, Lindholm is often seen as a disappointing playoff performer.

Bergeron's playoff stats are also diluted in this comparison given his significantly older age

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander will get more money than Lindholm because he’s a Leaf and not because of massive separation between the two. Nylander’s comparisons can be either in-house or cherry picked across league precedents whereas Lindholm probably gets compared to a Sebastian Aho.

Imo regardless how one feels about the Nylander vs Lindholm issue, a trade revolving around those two doesn't really do much for the Leafs.

Neither Nylander nor Lindholm have an incentive for a sign and trade. It's just replacing a potential ufa who has connections to the team/city with a guy who has zero connections and zero idea about line chemistry.

And both guys likely end up with similar ufa deals - with Nylander likely getting the edge higher

 

[Dreakmur]

I think you're really overrating Lindholm in this example. Bergeron has led a team to the cup finals, Lindholm is often seen as a disappointing playoff performer.

Bergeron's playoff stats are also diluted in this comparison given his significantly older age

Both Bergeron and Lindholm bring more than just offense. Lindholm obviously isn't on Bergeron's level defensively, but he is probably just the next tier below the perennial Selke contenders.

 

[Stephen]

Imo regardless how one feels about the Nylander vs Lindholm issue, a trade revolving around those two doesn't really do much for the Leafs.

Neither Nylander nor Lindholm have an incentive for a sign and trade. It's just replacing a potential ufa who has connections to the team/city with a guy who has zero connections and zero idea about line chemistry.

And both guys likely end up with similar ufa deals - with Nylander likely getting the edge higher

I think Lindholm is more valuable than Nylander from a positional point of view and greater two way play style... I have no idea who would get more money in the open market, but I would rank the AAV in salary like this:

1. Nylander re-sign in Toronto.

2A. Nylander signs elsewhere.
2B. Lindholm signs anywhere.

 

[Menzinger]

I think Lindholm is more valuable than Nylander from a positional point of view and greater two way play style... I have no idea who would get more money in the open market, but I would rank the AAV in salary like this:

1. Nylander re-sign in Toronto.

2A. Nylander signs elsewhere.
2B. Lindholm signs anywhere.

Ultimately I just don't see the point of trading one ufa for another in this context. If they move Nylander, aim for younger cost controlled assets than another guy they could lose in 11 months.

 

[Stephen]

Ultimately I just don't see the point of trading one ufa for another in this context. If they move Nylander, aim for younger cost controlled assets than another guy they could lose in 11 months.

You're not wrong. It would actually be interesting to trade Nylander for a pure futures package, plug up the scoring depth with a Tarasenko and Kane UFA pursuit to plug the holes in-season... then sign Lindholm as a UFA.

Or we just sign Nylander to a less than perfect contract and then give us a longer runway to pursue that blockbuster trade. There's a degree of overthinking, bad history with Dubas contracts and ultimatums that may not really exist. Keep the asset and reserve the right to make changes at a later date.

 

[thusk]

I think you're really overrating Lindholm in this example. Bergeron has led a team to the cup finals, Lindholm is often seen as a disappointing playoff performer.

Bergeron's playoff stats are also diluted in this comparison given his significantly older age

You could say the same thing about Tkachuk before last season...

Lindholm played like one season in a real contender team... give him the same team around him than Bergeron and who know what would happen?

Bergeron between 23 to 34 he was at 0, 75 pts/ 60

Between 34 to 37, hes at 0,81... so no his stats his not diluted because hes being older

At the end whats i saying, offensive stats just dont mean everything. You can be weaker in term of skill and offensive nunber but being a better player

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[hockeywiz542]

NHL INSIDER DAVID PAGNOTTA PROVIDES UPDATE ON ILYA SAMSONOV, MATT MURRAY + MORE | Leafs Morning Take

The Leafs Nation

July 16, 2023 #leafsforever #torontomapleleafs #nhl

Since a busy first few days of free agency, it's been very quiet on the Leafs front. Having said that, with Ilya Samsonov's arbitration hearing scheduled for July 21st, Toronto's crease situation heading into next season will finally be sorted out soon. NHL Insider David Pagnotta (The Fourth Period, SiriusXM NHL Network Radio, NHL Network) joined Nick Alberga to discuss the very latest on that front. Additionally, they hit on William Nylander, Auston Matthews, & Toronto's D search, among other things.

Rumor: Maple Leafs looking to move T.J. Brodie for another defenseman.

An NHL insider believes the Maple Leafs are trying to add a defenseman, and that may make Brodie the odd man out.

www.hockeyfeed.com

The Toronto Maple Leafs have already been relatively active this offseason, but despite that it sounds like the Leafs may have a big week ahead of them.

Not only will general manager Brad Treliving have to deal with the arbitration hearing for Ilya Samsonov set for this coming Friday, but the Leafs are also expected to either trade or buyout veteran goaltender Matt Murray when the buyout window opens up.

On top of this, recently National Hockey League insider David Pagnotta revealed that the Maple Leafs are hoping to add yet another piece over the course of the offseason, a stay-at-home type of defenseman.

"They'd like to," said Pagnotta when asked about the likelihood of the Maple Leafs adding to their blue line this summer. "They'd like to add a responsible guy because they added the offensive unit in [John] Klingberg."

Pagnotta largely dismissed the rumors that have linked the Maple Leafs to Carolina Hurricanes defenseman Brett Pesce, but rattled off a few other names that the Leafs might target.

"Noah Hanifin, I know there's ties there," said Pagnotta. "Nikita Zadorov more physical and defensive minded. Those are the two guys in Calgary that they are looking to move. Chris Tanev is out there too and he would be a great fit."

All of those players would come with their corresponding cap hits, and that raises questions about how the Leafs would make this all fit under the salary cap. Pagnotta had an answer for that as well, suggesting that moving veteran Maple Leafs defenseman T.J. Brodie may be part of the plan from Treliving.

"That also by the way likely means that someone else has to go, and that might explain why T.J. Brodie's name has been out there the last few weeks."

 

[TMLAM34]

He’s getting up there in age but I wouldn’t mind Tanev to play alongside Rielly for the right price. Maybe a Brodie for Tanev swap?