Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Dekes For Days]

The 2 seasons he got to play with Kessel he put up good seasons for his 1st 2 full time seasons as a Leaf.

He barely even played with Kessel in 2012-2013. His most common linemates were Macarthur and Kulemin,, and he had that production level because he had a crazy lucky OISH% in a shortened season where it didn't have a chance to normalize. He actually played with Kessel more in the next couple seasons, when he had his normal 50 point seasons. Kadri produced a certain way in 9 out of the past 10 seasons, and that is what he is. There is absolutely nothing about his situation in 2021-2022 that was meaningfully different from previous or future seasons, and there's absolutely nothing about his situation in 2021-2022 that can come close to causing a +50-point explosion.

We're talking about players who have won cups being the 2C for those cup runs

We're talking about the impacts that teams that win cups have gotten from their second best center in those years.
You're focusing on the individuals, but that's not the point. The point is that every single cup winner had a better performance from their second best center than what Kadri could be relied on to consistently bring, meaning that he was not an "ideal cup caliber 2C" (which would mean consistently providing that level of impact), and it was reasonable to pursue an available upgrade that would make center a comparative strength instead of weakness.

Alright, Cirelli is the better defender and PKer but Kadri is the better offensive player and PP guy. Pretty much cancels out don't you think?

In comparisons of the Kadri that was being decided on by Toronto and the worst performances of second best centers on cup winners in recent history, it's more like the special teams cancel out, and then Kadri still falls behind in 5v5 production, defensive play, and suspensions.

I didn't have a problem with them looking to upgrade the position, especially with Tavares available. It's just we can now look back on it seeing that it has failed and what has screwed us has been depth scoring which we could've paid for keeping Kadri instead for those 3 years

Just because you don't win the cup, it doesn't mean every decision you make is a failure, or that some specified alternative route would have been better.
And depth scoring struggles in the playoffs isn't about signing Tavares. It's more about what happened across the league and world after we signed Tavares, the offense-hindering situations we've experienced in the playoffs, the bad non-lottery drafting through our rebuild and rise (not to mention things like our highest drafted recent prospect getting cancer), and the anchors that were left to solve with internal assets. We still would have had to trade Kadri after his 2nd straight playoff suspension.

 

[IPS]

Someone call the police they're talking about Kadri again.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Someone call the police they're talking about Kadri again.

Haha. Makes a change from blaming Lou and Mike for everything.

 

[Byron Bitz]

It was certainly possible to win with him there. Teams have done it with worse, when it's made up for in other areas. But what you described would inherently make him not "ideal" as a 2C on a cup-winning team, so an available upgrade that would make that role a comparative strength would be reasonable to pursue.

I think it made sense to trade Kadri, he held more value to a team that can play him at 2C where as with us he was stuck at 3C. Dubas just didn’t get the right return for him.

 

[ACC1224]

Haha. Makes a change from blaming Lou and Mike for everything.

It's still early.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wilson re-signed to a 7 year contract until age 37. Risky.

 

[4thline]

Jarncrok looks like the cleanest move to ice cap compliant 22 man roster on opening day. He's a good, versatile player, but with the Domi/Bertuzzi additions he's now our 5th best winger (until Knies bumps him), 7th-8th best forward (depending on how you feel about Kampf's defense).

Jarncrok for a pick lets us lot anyone with a cap hit of 827k or less in the bottom 6 and still carry a spare F and D.
Internal options- Abruzzese, McMann, Robertson.
Still UFA -Bailey, Suter, Heinen, Motte, Gregor, Erne, Shaw, Puljujarvi, White, Ritchie, Ritchie, ZAR,

Seems like a reasonable path forward.

 

[Sypher04]

Wilson re-signed to a 7 year contract until age 37. Risky.

That organization exists only for helping OV pass Gretzky’s record at this point. I believe their directive is to compete for the next maybe 3 or 4 years max and then they’ll blow it up once OV retires

 

[The Masters]

Little wiesel

 

[Sypher04]

Someone call the police they're talking about Kadri again.

For what it’s worth, the people you rail against here are almost never the ones that bring up Kadri. It’s others who can’t seem to let it go

 

[Dekes For Days]

That organization exists only for helping OV pass Gretzky’s record at this point. I believe their directive is to compete for the next maybe 3 or 4 years max and then they’ll blow it up once OV retires

Yeah, I don't expect them to blow it up while Ovechkin's chasing the record (they've made it clear that's their priority), but that could be quite the anchor in the latter years once Ovechkin's gone. Though I guess then they've got a big rebuild in front of them.

 

[Sypher04]

Little wiesel

Leave our cap guru alone

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Another core forward on another team signing for long term. Ho hum.

 

[Stephen]

Leave our cap guru alone

Pridham’s loyalty is noted and appreciated.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Stupid Dubas, because of him we won’t get the privilege of paying a broken Tom Wilson 6.5 mil at 37 years old.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think it made sense to trade Kadri, he held more value to a team that can play him at 2C where as with us he was stuck at 3C. Dubas just didn’t get the right return for him.

I think the main point was that he should have been the 2C here, and the money we wasted on Tavares would have been better spent on defence and goal.

 

[TMLAM34]

It’s funny how Dubas thought everyone he’d want would follow him to Pittsburgh lol

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Stupid Dubas, because of him we won’t get the privilege of paying a broken Tom Wilson 6.5 mil at 37 years old.

Not my point at all man.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Not my point at all man.

Maybe signing players with a high risk of injury to a long term deal isn’t always a good choice? Would you pay more in a trade for Wilson at 6.5x7 or 6.5x3?

 

[Fogelhund]

I think the main point was that he should have been the 2C here, and the money we wasted on Tavares would have been better spent on defence and goal.

Kadri absolutely should have been the 2C here. But his ongoing lack of maturity, run in's with coaches, being late to practise and team meetings, both internal and external suspensions lead to him not being a trusted player and the need for a replacement, who could be trusted.

Given the option, the Leafs might have preferred to keep Kadri as the 2C as well, but when someone is repeatedly a problem, they wear out their welcome.

Kadri is not a Leaf because of Kadri, not because of management. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at Kadri. See the situation for what it really is.

 

[Menzinger]

Kadri absolutely should have been the 2C here. But his ongoing lack of maturity, run in's with coaches, being late to practise and team meetings, both internal and external suspensions lead to him not being a trusted player and the need for a replacement, who could be trusted.

Given the option, the Leafs might have preferred to keep Kadri as the 2C as well, but when someone is repeatedly a problem, they wear out their welcome.

Kadri is not a Leaf because of Kadri, not because of management. You want to be mad at someone, be mad at Kadri. See the situation for what it really is.

Yep. The fact that he literally got suspended in the playoffs with the Avs says it all really

I'm a Kadri fan so I'm happy by the end things worked out for him and he got to raise the cup. But some of us do tend to look back on things with rose coloured glasses....

Biggest issue in retrospect wasn't so much the fact that they traded him, rather it was the return. Leafs should have targeted a single higher impact D man with term rather than try and do the 2 for 1 deal. The front office outsmarted themselves with the trade.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yep. The fact that he literally got suspended in the playoffs with the Avs says it all really

I'm a Kadri fan so I'm happy by the end things worked out for him and he got to raise the cup. But some of us do tend to look back on things with rose coloured glasses....

Biggest issue in retrospect wasn't so much the fact that they traded him, rather it was the return. Leafs should have targeted a single higher impact D man with term rather than try and do the 2 for 1 deal. The front office outsmarted themselves with the trade.

Technically, the front office did target the perfect high-impact defenseman that could help us for years for the trade, and Kadri is the reason we didn't get him until the next year.

 

[Burnie97]

Yep. The fact that he literally got suspended in the playoffs with the Avs says it all really

I'm a Kadri fan so I'm happy by the end things worked out for him and he got to raise the cup. But some of us do tend to look back on things with rose coloured glasses....

Biggest issue in retrospect wasn't so much the fact that they traded him, rather it was the return. Leafs should have targeted a single higher impact D man with term rather than try and do the 2 for 1 deal. The front office outsmarted themselves with the trade.

I was happy for Kadri.

And rose coloured glasses or not... do you think there is quite possibly a bias towards certain players?

Some guys play with an edge... but certain guys also get screwed by the league way more.

It was a shit trade though. Easy to say in hindsight but Leafs could of done much better at the time.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I think the main point was that he should have been the 2C here, and the money we wasted on Tavares would have been better spent on defence and goal.

I disagree with that, I think we would have been better off signing Tavares and trading Kadri for better assets than Barrie and Kerfoot.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yep. The fact that he literally got suspended in the playoffs with the Avs says it all really

I'm a Kadri fan so I'm happy by the end things worked out for him and he got to raise the cup. But some of us do tend to look back on things with rose coloured glasses....

Biggest issue in retrospect wasn't so much the fact that they traded him, rather it was the return. Leafs should have targeted a single higher impact D man with term rather than try and do the 2 for 1 deal. The front office outsmarted themselves with the trade.

Agreed, the return wasn't great. We look at it, without the knowledge of what the options available were at the time. We had a trade with Calgary for Brodie lined up, but Kadri vetoed that... so it was attempted... you have to wonder what the other options were, that wouldn't have been vetoed, and were willing to take a chance on an oft suspended problem player. Ironic that Kadri did end up in Calgary, and Brodie did end up in Toronto. We can pretend we wanted better, we just don't know if better was even available.