Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Fogelhund]

I think what he's saying is that Carolina would likely value Jarvis + the remaining cap spent on another player more than Nylander. This is especially true if Jarvis becomes a 60-70 point player.

For example, Jarvis @ 4M + 5-6M player (such as Bertuzzi) >>> Nylander @ 9-10M.

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think that's what he was trying to convey.
---

Fans don't make the trades but according to Carolina fans it would be unlikely that they give up Jarvis and Pesce. I agree personally, unless Toronto is adding someone better than Timmins.

It's a tough trade because I think Nylander is more valuable than Pesce, but most of the players the Leafs would want as a sweetener tilt things too far the other way.

Yes, I can see Carolina fans no wanting to give up Jarvis and Pesce.. that's understandable. At the end of the day, you attempt to build the best team, and maximize your assets. With Pesce, they are either moving him, or letting him go to UFA next year... you can build a story that either makes sense. I think it's pretty clear that Nylander is a better player than Jarvis now... and I believe into the future as well. Carolina typically lacks the elite firepower to take it to the next step, and Nylander is one of the better players in the league, and it fits for what they need. I don't even know if Nylander is staying, or going, but I think it would be a good trade for both teams, even if their fans disagree... anyway, fan bases rarely agree on trades in advance.

 

[horner]

Yes, I can see Carolina fans no wanting to give up Jarvis and Pesce.. that's understandable. At the end of the day, you attempt to build the best team, and maximize your assets. With Pesce, they are either moving him, or letting him go to UFA next year... you can build a story that either makes sense. I think it's pretty clear that Nylander is a better player than Jarvis now... and I believe into the future as well. Carolina typically lacks the elite firepower to take it to the next step, and Nylander is one of the better players in the league, and it fits for what they need. I don't even know if Nylander is staying, or going, but I think it would be a good trade for both teams, even if their fans disagree... anyway, fan bases rarely agree on trades in advance.

I think you will get
Pesce + 1st

Maybe the like Ljiligren

Then
Peace + Jarvis
For
Nylander + Ljiligren

 

[thusk]

The cap would fit fine this year for the Hurricanes. No need to make trades. They would have some decisions the year after though.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at with this Bertuzzi and Knies stuff though... It doesn't even seem relevant.

this year carolina will raise his cap and flexibility exemple making deal at TDL... next season if they extend nylander too depending of what kind of season Jarvis will have...

If he having same kind of evolution of nylander and producing like 60-70 pts... he will be pay like 7M 3 X less and not sure if nylander would still have that much higher impact

If we dont see any progression next season in Jarvis game, will cost like 3 to 4M in a bridge deal but stil with 6-7 M to spend somewhere else...

If trading for Nylander vs Jarvis cost carolina ability to keep Necas, do you still think its great for Carolina? The answer is no

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Would be paying based off potential and locking him up throughout his prime.

Okay true. I haven't watched him play too much so I don't know what type of ceiling we are talking about.

 

[MarMarSab3]

I think you will get
Pesce + 1st

Maybe the like Ljiligren

Then
Peace + Jarvis
For
Nylander + Ljiligren

No thx

The hate for Liljegren is mind blowing

 

[nuck]

I think you will get
Pesce + 1st

Maybe the like Ljiligren

Then
Peace + Jarvis
For
Nylander + Ljiligren

Thats getting closer for sure, depending on how Lilly is valued outside of this board. Burns is gone soon so the Canes will have a need at RD. Depends on if they feel they have someone of quality in the pipeline.

 

[Menzinger]

Willy strikes me as a guy who will sign as long as the money is right. If they give him the Huberdeau contract, I don't think he says no. Calgary is desperate for guys

The media rumors indicate Hanifin doesn't have interest in staying in Canada

 

[kb]

The media rumors indicate Hanifin doesn't have interest in staying in Canada

And it's been rumoured Pesce has Canada on his NTC list.

 

[TopProspect91]

I can't see Carolina parting with Pesce and Jarvis, but as a framework, that's the sort of trade I'd be exploring. It's also why I like Mr. Hund's suggestion around Seattle. In other words, look for a package including a defenseman and swing on a forward with some upside. Ideally squeeze out a little cap relief, or pick up a draft pick / prospect to give you added flexibility around the deadline.

It's the dog days of summer here, so I'm just spitballing, but what about the Rangers? Once they sign Lafrienere they're probably tight up against the cap, but they have a big hole at the top RW spot next to fellow countryman Mikka Zibanejad.

It's a position they're clearly interested in upgrading, since they brought in Kane last year, and still sputtered out in the post season. Would swipe a talent from the radar of a division rival as well (Carolina), and Nylander might not oppose signing an extension there (big apple, a franchise that's not afraid to pay star talent, perfect fit / opportunity, playoff team).

No idea what the trade would look like for cap purposes, or what fair value would look like. The Rangers don't have much money coming off the books next off-season, either.

Actually thought about this the other day. A package around Laf and Schneider makes sense to me. Two young studs (although Laf has been questionable so far) at minimal contracts to fill needs at F and D.

It's the type of deal that the Rangers are usually all-in on. Only caveat is that the Rangers have committed a lot of money and term to their top 6 forwards. Would likely need to look at moving one or two of those guys out to fit Nylander long term.

 

[nuck]

And it's been rumoured Pesce has Canada on his NTC list.

That would be unfortunate. I remember how much different the Oilers defence looked after the Ekholm addition. He turned their defense corps around making life easy for his partner and pushing weaker defensive players down to where they fit. I think Pesce could be such a player for the Leafs.

Assuming they are even looking beyond the group they have now, the options for a high quality impact RD are thin. If Nylander is the bait your potential partner could be any team but getting decent value in a Willie deal plus adding where they most need it probably requires a 3rd team. There are likely some teams that would be much more confidant in extending Nylander than others and a couple that might be a destination of choice for him. That's where the return is, but I have no idea who those clubs are.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think you will get
Pesce + 1st

Maybe the like Ljiligren

Then
Peace + Jarvis
For
Nylander + Ljiligren

They have no need for Liljegren. A prospect forward sure...

Actually thought about this the other day. A package around Laf and Schneider makes sense to me. Two young studs (although Laf has been questionable so far) at minimal contracts to fill needs at F and D.

It's the type of deal that the Rangers are usually all-in on. Only caveat is that the Rangers have committed a lot of money and term to their top 6 forwards. Would likely need to look at moving one or two of those guys out to fit Nylander long term.

Rangers can't do that cap wise.

 

[thusk]

Yes, I can see Carolina fans no wanting to give up Jarvis and Pesce.. that's understandable. At the end of the day, you attempt to build the best team, and maximize your assets. With Pesce, they are either moving him, or letting him go to UFA next year... you can build a story that either makes sense. I think it's pretty clear that Nylander is a better player than Jarvis now... and I believe into the future as well. Carolina typically lacks the elite firepower to take it to the next step, and Nylander is one of the better players in the league, and it fits for what they need. I don't even know if Nylander is staying, or going, but I think it would be a good trade for both teams, even if their fans disagree... anyway, fan bases rarely agree on trades in advance.

The question is not if nylander is a better player, the question its did nylander bring a better quality/price

2- i dont how much nylander should be a good fit for Brind'amour system... Carolina is defensive 1st system vs a foward who constantly cheating in the defensive side... not sure if nylander would have the same liberty in Carolina than what hes actually having in Toronto.
If he dont having the same liberty, he would not be a ppg player anymore.

 

[Fogelhund]

The question is not if nylander is a better player, the question its did nylander bring a better quality/price

2- i dont how much nylander should be a good fit for Brind'amour system... Carolina is defensive 1st system vs a foward who constantly cheating in the defensive side... not sure if nylander would have the same liberty in Carolina than what hes actually having in Toronto.
If he dont having the same liberty, he would not be a ppg player anymore.

Carolina needs more scoring. They don’t need to win a value quality/price forum comp. they just need more quality.

 

[andora]

The question is not if nylander is a better player, the question its did nylander bring a better quality/price

2- i dont how much nylander should be a good fit for Brind'amour system... Carolina is defensive 1st system vs a foward who constantly cheating in the defensive side... not sure if nylander would have the same liberty in Carolina than what hes actually having in Toronto.
If he dont having the same liberty, he would not be a ppg player anymore.

That is kind of a grey area.. carolina has two main components that could help willy

- strictly man on man in defensive zone
- puck gets out no matter what flip glass boards pass.. just get it out

Both could compliment his game speed and simplify defensive zone

 

[weems]

Aho signs for 8 x 9.75

 

[123offtheglass]

 

[tmlfan98]

Marner and Matthews are greedy little s**** who are allergic to winning. Can't wait until the fraudulent Core 4 era finally ends someday.

 

[Rob Brown]

I think this probably helps us a bit...hard for Nylander to ask for over 10M if a C that is better than him takes less than that.

 

[Jozay]

2023 and Aho is signing an 8 year deal for a mill less than what Marner got in 2019

This franchise is cooked

 

[IPS]

Hands up if you thought Aho was going to make less on an 8-year deal as a UFA than Marner on a 6-year deal as an RFA.

Dubas is hands down the biggest joke in franchise history.

 

[SprDaVE]

Aho can barely reach over a PPG per season. He only had 67 points in 75 games this past year. He's a terrific player but he's nowhere near the player Marner or Matthews are. They both trump his production quite a bit, and his playoff production isn't really all that good either.

With that said, at least he signed for 8 years and committed to the Canes. That contract seems fine and inline with the recent signings. But hey... we're so lucky that Matthews only wants a 3 year contract for a cool 13M. Soooo lucky I tell you!

 

[Community]

2Hands up if you thought Aho was going to make less on an 8-year deal as a UFA than Marner on a 6-year deal as an RFA.

Dubas is hands down the biggest joke in franchise history.

Biggest joke is thinking that Dubas is even in the bottom 5 GMs in our history.

You can argue about his tenure here, but there is absolutely no legitimate case for him being anywhere near the worst GM in Leafs history. You're just trying to push an agenda if you think he's anywhere near as awful as JFJ.

 

[IPS]

Biggest joke is thinking that Dubas is even in the bottom 5 GMs in our history.

You can argue about his tenure here, but there is absolutely no legitimate case for him being anywhere near the worst GM in Leafs history. You're just trying to push an agenda if you think he's anywhere near as awful as JFJ.

I can't remember a GM who inherited a glut of talent like Dubas did so the JFJ comparison ain't it.

I'll just stick to laughing at all of you who used to defend these ridiculous overpayments.

Aho can barely reach over a PPG per season. He only had 67 points in 75 games this past year. He's a terrific player but he's nowhere near the player Marner or Matthews are. They both trump his production quite a bit, and his playoff production isn't really all that good either.

With that said, at least he signed for 8 years and committed to the Canes. That contract seems fine and inline with the recent signings. But hey... we're so lucky that Matthews only wants a 3 year contract for a cool 13M. Soooo lucky I tell you!

You are SERIOUSLY diminishing Aho as a player here.

He's had several years of PPG or better and is a great goal-scorer too. He does all of this as one of the best 2-way C's in the game. Nowhere near the player Marner is? Who does Aho play with regularly? He doesn't play with any Matthews.

 

[I am Canadian]

Can we really make this work long term with;
Matthews 13.5M
Nylander 9M
Marner ~ 11M

I'm okay with the Nylander and Matthews contracts at this range, they've earned it. I don't know how Leafs can offer Marner a pay upgrade. He's not lived up to his first contract. I'd give him 10.25-10.5 for 7/8 years. 9.75 x 3 if he wants to go short.

 

[SprDaVE]

You are SERIOUSLY diminishing Aho as a player here.

He's had several years of PPG or better and is a great goal-scorer too. He does all of this as one of the best 2-way C's in the game. Nowhere near the player Marner is? Who does Aho play with regularly? He doesn't play with any Matthews.

Am I? Several PPG years is being very generous. He had 3 out of 7 so far in the NHL. 83 points in 82 games, 57 points in 56 games and 81 points in 79 games. That's it. The rest are all under a PPG. He never scored more than 40 goals a year either, but a good bunch of 30 goal seasons. His most common linemates are Teravainen, Jarvis, Necas and Svechnikov. He's a good player, I never said otherwise.

I'm just saying his production and level of play is outmatched by both Marner and Matthews and it's not really close. You can make any excuse you want.