Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Stephen]

I’m not comparing any of these players but even if that’s how they view Jarvis, let’s say we were offered Forsberg for Knies… As a contender and having the cap space, I’m definitely pulling the trigger on that move.

If Nylander came with an extension, I don’t think they hesitate in moving Jarvis for Nylander at all.

Jarvis is also RFA next year so there is some downside to his abundant upside. New contract, suddenly expensive, etc.

 

[Fogelhund]

Jarvis is also RFA next year so there is some downside to his abundant upside. New contract, suddenly expensive, etc.

Even so… the biggest risk with Jarvis is he comes here and outperforms what he did in Carolina by a large margin.

As of now, his best season is 40 points. You give Pesce $6 mil, and Jarvis $4 mil and you are still at/below Nylander + league minimum player.

Again, the risk being that Jarvis is a 60 point guy with the Leafs, then he costs you $6-7 mil.

But, if you get Pesce, you are likely moving Brodie, so you’ve got added cap flexibility built in. I really don’t know who is most in need of a D man like Brodie though.

 

[TMLAM34]

Even so… the biggest risk with Jarvis is he comes here and outperforms what he did in Carolina by a large margin.

As of now, his best season is 40 points. You give Pesce $6 mil, and Jarvis $4 mil and you are still at/below Nylander + league minimum player.

Again, the risk being that Jarvis is a 60 point guy with the Leafs, then he costs you $6-7 mil.

But, if you get Pesce, you are likely moving Brodie, so you’ve got added cap flexibility built in. I really don’t know who is most in need of a D man like Brodie though.

I can see Anaheim being interested in Brodie. Brodie for Vatrano with Anaheim retaining 50% of his salary?

Detroit is another team I can see being interested. Brodie - Seider would be a really good pair or if they want a shutdown unit of Chiarot - Brodie.

 

[Fogelhund]

I can see Anaheim being interested in Brodie. Brodie for Vatrano with Anaheim retaining 50% of his salary?

Detroit is another team I can see being interested. Brodie - Seider would be a really good pair or if they want a shutdown unit of Chiarot - Brodie.

I've seen a posting on the main Trade Board, from a Detroit fan seeking RD. I find that odd to be honest, when they seem to be setup like this.

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Gostisbehere
Chiarot - Holl
Lindstrom

Ducks I could see the interest... I really have no idea how to value Brodie at this point though. I'd love to get Gaucher off of them, but I'm sure they'd be hesitant to do that.

 

[The Management]

I can't see Carolina parting with Pesce and Jarvis, but as a framework, that's the sort of trade I'd be exploring. It's also why I like Mr. Hund's suggestion around Seattle. In other words, look for a package including a defenseman and swing on a forward with some upside. Ideally squeeze out a little cap relief, or pick up a draft pick / prospect to give you added flexibility around the deadline.

It's the dog days of summer here, so I'm just spitballing, but what about the Rangers? Once they sign Lafrienere they're probably tight up against the cap, but they have a big hole at the top RW spot next to fellow countryman Mikka Zibanejad.

It's a position they're clearly interested in upgrading, since they brought in Kane last year, and still sputtered out in the post season. Would swipe a talent from the radar of a division rival as well (Carolina), and Nylander might not oppose signing an extension there (big apple, a franchise that's not afraid to pay star talent, perfect fit / opportunity, playoff team).

No idea what the trade would look like for cap purposes, or what fair value would look like. The Rangers don't have much money coming off the books next off-season, either.

 

[thusk]

I’m not comparing any of these players but even if that’s how they view Jarvis, let’s say we were offered Forsberg for Knies… As a contender and having the cap space, I’m definitely pulling the trigger on that move.

If Nylander came with an extension, I don’t think they hesitate in moving Jarvis for Nylander at all.

If nylander coming with an 10M extension, im not sure carolina will be highly interest of giving jarvis who still in a rookie contract...

If you forgot salary cap, nylander can he deserve jarvis and pesce in a return? Yes... if youre considerating salary cap and nylander ask...maybe caroline would be ready to move jarvis 1v1, but its the base case scenario you will have and you can forgot Pesce

Dube would be a nice add


Gross

I get the love affair with zadorov but he plays a third of his time like dave ellett..

The other calgary names are just throw ins and no point in liljegren.. if both him and nylander are involved then andersson is on the table

Lilly is not an even outer

Liljegren is nothing else than a 3rd pair young dman...

He was a 5th-6th of a below averageD group. A d group who had to plau Justin Holl in their top 3 most of the season because nobody was enough good for it.

But oh no dont move 3rd pair guy of this D group, it would be a disaster!!!

Ps dont tell me leafs was amount best defensive team to explain it... they was one of best defensive team because they had 1 of 2-3 best deffensive group of foward in NHL, not because of their D group

 

[Tony Romo]

Maybe carolina would move Jarvis 1v1 for Nylander?

Nylander scored more points last year than Jarvis has in his career. Let's relax a bit here.

Jarvis and Pesce both need new contracts, which would probably come out to being the same as Nylander if not more.

Also with the reports being Nylander doesn't want to give a discount because he doesn't believe others will, other teams can probably sign him for less.

I love Jarvis and who is to say Pesce + Jarvis for Nylander is a fair deal, but if the leafs called the hurricanes and asked for Jarvis straight up for Nylander. Nylander would be in Carolina before the hurricanes GM hangs up the call

 

[TMLAM34]

If nylander coming with an 10M extension, im not sure carolina will be highly interest of giving jarvis who still in a rookie contract...

If you forgot salary cap, nylander can he deserve jarvis and pesce in a return? Yes... if youre considerating salary cap and nylander ask...maybe caroline would be ready to move jarvis 1v1, but its the base case scenario you will have and you can forgot Pesce


Liljegren is nothing else than a 3rd pair young dman...

He was a 5th-6th of a below averageD group. A d group who had to plau Justin Holl in their top 3 most of the season because nobody was enough good for it.

But oh no dont move 3rd pair guy of this D group, it would be a disaster!!!

Ps dont tell me leafs was amount best defensive team to explain it... they was one of best defensive team because they had 1 of 2-3 best deffensive group of foward in NHL, not because of their D group

It’s not like Jarvis has another 2/3 years remaining on his ELC. He’s due for a new contract after this upcoming season and if he just slightly improves, you’re probably looking at around 7 million per on an 8 year deal.

 

[andora]

If nylander coming with an 10M extension, im not sure carolina will be highly interest of giving jarvis who still in a rookie contract...

If you forgot salary cap, nylander can he deserve jarvis and pesce in a return? Yes... if youre considerating salary cap and nylander ask...maybe caroline would be ready to move jarvis 1v1, but its the base case scenario you will have and you can forgot Pesce


Liljegren is nothing else than a 3rd pair young dman...

He was a 5th-6th of a below averageD group. A d group who had to plau Justin Holl in their top 3 most of the season because nobody was enough good for it.

But oh no dont move 3rd pair guy of this D group, it would be a disaster!!!

Ps dont tell me leafs was amount best defensive team to explain it... they was one of best defensive team because they had 1 of 2-3 best deffensive group of foward in NHL, not because of their D group

With all due respect i am not surprised you repkied to my liljegren comments

 

[thusk]

It’s not like Jarvis has another 2/3 years remaining on his ELC. He’s due for a new contract after this upcoming season and if he just slightly improves, you’re probably looking at around 7 million per on an 8 year deal.

If hes improve enough.like you said... with a nice season enough to put him in reach of 7M... Caroline would have a player of same caliber of Nylander for 3M less.

Nylander at the same age of jarvis had 28 goal 46 assist in 103 games 0,68 goal/ 60 min played in NHl at 5v5 and 1,76 pts/60 vs 0,85 goal/60 and 1,79/60 for Jarvis

With all due respect i am not surprised you repkied to my liljegren comments

Leafs d is biggest weakness of this team from last 20 years and it would be again the case next season

But yeah for sure, keefe was just so stupid to use Holl despite of liljegren, hes probably find his job in a cereal box

Keefe was probably as much stupid to trade for mccabe and schenn at trade deadline, why adding those d if youre already having an amaizing D with LIljegren...

What the first move treliving did? Sign Klinberg to move back liljegren on 3rd pairing and watch if they move brodie, you will see an other D bring him who will play in leafs top4....

He dont have full trust of anybody in leafs organisation but we should considerate him like a top 4 etablish dman...

Sure evwryone whos earned their spot in NHL dont understand the game as much of a leafs fan from his couch in front of his TV/ computer/ phone

 

[Fogelhund]

If nylander coming with an 10M extension, im not sure carolina will be highly interest of giving jarvis who still in a rookie contract...

If you forgot salary cap, nylander can he deserve jarvis and pesce in a return? Yes... if youre considerating salary cap and nylander ask...maybe caroline would be ready to move jarvis 1v1, but its the base case scenario you will have and you can forgot Pesce


Liljegren is nothing else than a 3rd pair young dman...

He was a 5th-6th of a below averageD group. A d group who had to plau Justin Holl in their top 3 most of the season because nobody was enough good for it.

But oh no dont move 3rd pair guy of this D group, it would be a disaster!!!

Ps dont tell me leafs was amount best defensive team to explain it... they was one of best defensive team because they had 1 of 2-3 best deffensive group of foward in NHL, not because of their D group

Pesce is likely getting moved anyway, so Carolina isn't too concerned about him.. though they'd want value for sure. They've already found their replacements for Pesce, so they'd be looking at upgrading at RW from Jarvis to Nylander, which is a substantial upgrade.

Regarding your take on Lilly and our D... bad take, which seems to be quite a recurring theme.

With all due respect i am not surprised you repkied to my liljegren comments

Bad take after bad take, oui?

 

[thusk]

Pesce is likely getting moved anyway, so Carolina isn't too concerned about him.. though they'd want value for sure. They've already found their replacements for Pesce, so they'd be looking at upgrading at RW from Jarvis to Nylander, which is a substantial upgrade.

Regarding your take on Lilly and our D... bad take, which seems to be quite a recurring theme.



Bad take after bad take, oui?

The fact they looking to trade pesce because hes asking too much doesnt mean they will give him for free to overpay a foward 10M in the other end...

 

[Fogelhund]

The fact they looking to trade pesce because hes asking too much doesnt mean they will give him for free to overpay a foward 10M in the other end...

This literally makes zero sense. How exactly do you give away a player, when you are receiving an elite player back?

 

[thusk]

This literally makes zero sense. How exactly do you give away a player, when you are receiving an elite player back?

A player who cost absolutly nothing...

Nylander = Teravainen+Jarvis salary

If jarvis having a pretty good season and atep up in 60-70 range and resign around 7M on long term deal... he will already been pretty close of nylander level. If hes still producing at same rate than right now and taking a brige deal maybe around 4M... will still 6M under nylander....

so its not only jarvis vs nylander

Its jarvis + what youre doing with money vs nylander

Ita the part i dont think youre really understand

 

[Fogelhund]

A player who cost absolutly nothing...

Nylander = Teravainen+Jarvis salary

If jarvis having a pretty good season and atep up in 60-70 range and resign around 7M on long term deal... he will already been pretty close of nylander level. If hes still producing at same rate than right now and taking a brige deal maybe around 4M... will still 6M under nylander....

so its not only jarvis vs nylander

Its jarvis + what youre doing with money vs nylander

Ita the part i dont think youre really understand

You've said a lot, and said nothing. Probably a language thing.

 

[thusk]

You've said a lot, and said nothing. Probably a language thing.

Probably hahaha i will try to explain it an other way

Trading jarvis for nylander would mean trading teravainen too just to make salary cap fit.

I asking you with leafs player choosing healthy Bertuzzi and Knies ( base of what we saw of knies and Bertuzzi last playoff to be what we will see from him next season) or nylander for 1 season, who do you take...for me its pretty easy im taking Bertuzzi and knies because together their impact is bigger than nylander impact alone.

If you only comparing impact of knies and nylander alone, yep nylander would have a bigger one but would be unfair because they are just not winning the same salary. To know what is real value, you need to consider what he bring ÷ salary . Its the same thing with Jarvis

 

[Ziggdiezan]

It’s not like Jarvis has another 2/3 years remaining on his ELC. He’s due for a new contract after this upcoming season and if he just slightly improves, you’re probably looking at around 7 million per on an 8 year deal.

Bunting just got 4.5 AAV after putting up 60 point and 50 point seasons. Why would Jarvis make almost double putting up similar numbers? Purely draft position? I figured the RFA years would cost less

 

[TMLAM34]

Bunting just got 4.5 AAV after putting up 60 point and 50 point seasons. Why would Jarvis make almost double putting up similar numbers? Purely draft position? I figured the RFA years would cost less

Would be paying based off potential and locking him up throughout his prime.

 

[Fogelhund]

Probably hahaha i will try to explain it an other way

Trading jarvis for nylander would mean trading teravainen too just to make salary cap fit.

I asking you with leafs player choosing healthy Bertuzzi and Knies ( base of what we saw of knies and Bertuzzi last playoff to be what we will see from him next season) or nylander for 1 season, who do you take...for me its pretty easy im taking Bertuzzi and knies because together their impact is bigger than nylander impact alone.

If you only comparing impact of knies and nylander alone, yep nylander would have a bigger one but would be unfair because they are just not winning the same salary. To know what is real value, you need to consider what he bring ÷ salary . Its the same thing with Jarvis

The cap would fit fine this year for the Hurricanes. No need to make trades. They would have some decisions the year after though.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at with this Bertuzzi and Knies stuff though... It doesn't even seem relevant.

 

[TMLAM34]

Comparing Bertuzzi and Knies impact to Nylander? How does one even do that? It’s 2 against 1, obviously Bertuzzi and Knies impact would be higher…

 

[andora]

If hes improve enough.like you said... with a nice season enough to put him in reach of 7M... Caroline would have a player of same caliber of Nylander for 3M less.

Nylander at the same age of jarvis had 28 goal 46 assist in 103 games 0,68 goal/ 60 min played in NHl at 5v5 and 1,76 pts/60 vs 0,85 goal/60 and 1,79/60 for Jarvis


Leafs d is biggest weakness of this team from last 20 years and it would be again the case next season

But yeah for sure, keefe was just so stupid to use Holl despite of liljegren, hes probably find his job in a cereal box

Keefe was probably as much stupid to trade for mccabe and schenn at trade deadline, why adding those d if youre already having an amaizing D with LIljegren...

What the first move treliving did? Sign Klinberg to move back liljegren on 3rd pairing and watch if they move brodie, you will see an other D bring him who will play in leafs top4....

He dont have full trust of anybody in leafs organisation but we should considerate him like a top 4 etablish dman...

Sure evwryone whos earned their spot in NHL dont understand the game as much of a leafs fan from his couch in front of his TV/ computer/ phone

This just sounds like ranting

Pesce is likely getting moved anyway, so Carolina isn't too concerned about him.. though they'd want value for sure. They've already found their replacements for Pesce, so they'd be looking at upgrading at RW from Jarvis to Nylander, which is a substantial upgrade.

Regarding your take on Lilly and our D... bad take, which seems to be quite a recurring theme.



Bad take after bad take, oui?

He clearly dislikes lilly and willy..

 

[Fogelhund]

This just sounds like ranting


He clearly dislikes lilly and willy..

That's just silly.

 

[Jmo89]

The cap would fit fine this year for the Hurricanes. No need to make trades. They would have some decisions the year after though.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at with this Bertuzzi and Knies stuff though... It doesn't even seem relevant.

I think what he's saying is that Carolina would likely value Jarvis + the remaining cap spent on another player more than Nylander. This is especially true if Jarvis becomes a 60-70 point player.

For example, Jarvis @ 4M + 5-6M player (such as Bertuzzi) >>> Nylander @ 9-10M.

Not saying I necessarily agree, but I think that's what he was trying to convey.
---

Fans don't make the trades but according to Carolina fans it would be unlikely that they give up Jarvis and Pesce. I agree personally, unless Toronto is adding someone better than Timmins.

It's a tough trade because I think Nylander is more valuable than Pesce, but most of the players the Leafs would want as a sweetener tilt things too far the other way.

 

[aingefan]

Even so… the biggest risk with Jarvis is he comes here and outperforms what he did in Carolina by a large margin.

As of now, his best season is 40 points. You give Pesce $6 mil, and Jarvis $4 mil and you are still at/below Nylander + league minimum player.

Again, the risk being that Jarvis is a 60 point guy with the Leafs, then he costs you $6-7 mil.

But, if you get Pesce, you are likely moving Brodie, so you’ve got added cap flexibility built in. I really don’t know who is most in need of a D man like Brodie though.

I’d be most inclined to hold Jarvis and flip Pesce.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nylander isn't worth Pesce + Jarvis

bad overpay by the Canes there