Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[Fogelhund]

Why are you omitting "1st overall pick 2 years ago" from your description of him? He's not "just a prospect"

Wright was the 4th overall pick. He dropped. There are reasons he dropped.

 

[Legion34]

Why are you omitting "1st overall pick 2 years ago" from your description of him? He's not "just a prospect"

Who was? Wright was 4th.

 

[BM14]

Wright was the 4th overall pick. He dropped. There are reasons he dropped.

Sorry, 4th. He's still a top 5 pick 2 years removed. He's not a random prospect. You speak of him like he's a 3rd round project.

Who was? Wright was 4th.

Edited.

 

[Fogelhund]

Sorry, 4th. He's still a top 5 pick 2 years removed. He's not a random prospect. You speak of him like he's a 3rd round project.

Nobody called him a random prospect, but he certainly isn’t in the elite tier of prospects either. He’s no Bedard, or even close.

The point was more that you need a very significant add to a 45 point winger, to get an 87 point winger. Bjork is a useful player, but he’s in the trade for two reasons. 1. Seattle wouldn’t need him and would need to move Cap. 2. Leafs could use a useful RW.

The main return in this trade IS Wright and Bjork is the add on. Not the other way around.

I like Wright, but he isn’t going to be a 1C, and there is some concern as to what his ceiling will be. He was scratched in the AHL playoffs this year, and if he isn’t NHL ready this year, he’ll have to play in the OHL again.

Again, I think he’ll be a decent 2C, maybe not an elite 2C, but a good one, but people need to get over the pre-draft hype. He will never be nearly as good as the hyped 1st OA potential guy.

Do we really think a guy like Nylander coming off of 87 points wouldn’t receive back one good piece?

 

[hamzarocks]

Bjork had 45 points last year.
Nylander nearly double at 87 points.

You don’t think the difference between them is a prospect who was sent back to juniors and managed 7 points at the World Juniors to Bedards 23?

Seriously?

Uh why is bedard coming here? He's a generational prospect who has GOAT potential (though extremely unlikely of reaching it)

He brings Matthews++ if the hawks ever were insane enough to deal

Wright is still a top 10 prospect in the legue. Was almost 2ppg in the OHL and was really playing across leagues.

Wright + 1st is extended nylander value (look at Mark Stone deal for Branstrom + 2nd as a decent comp)

Brodie for Larsson dont see the knights doing as they like larsson and he has chemistry with Dunn

 

[Fogelhund]

Uh why is bedard coming here? He's a generational prospect who has GOAT potential (though extremely unlikely of reaching it)

He brings Matthews++ if the hawks ever were insane enough to deal

You might want to try reading that again. There was no such statement made.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Fogelhund]

Hey there bud. Your contract is too big and nobody can fit you in. If you are really all about that winning, accept a mutual contract termination and sign with a team, with whatever $ they have left. I suspect that would never happen though, I wonder why?

 

[ULF_55]

Massive 3-way deal in dream land…


To Toronto: Seth Jarvis + Cody Glass
To Carolina: William Nylander + Dante Fabbro
To Nashville: Brett Pesce + Pontus Holmberg


Top 3 forward lines:

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Jarvis
Tavares - Domi - Marner
Knies - Glass - Jarnkrok

I've seen Glass mentioned several times, but why the facination with the 24 year old 3rd. liner?

I'm not saying he wouldn't fit in as a 3rd. line center on the Leafs, just curious?

Doesn't hit.
Face-offs are not great.
Doesn't block shots.

 

[TMLAM34]

I've seen Glass mentioned several times, but why the facination with the 24 year old 3rd. liner?

I'm not saying he wouldn't fit in as a 3rd. line center on the Leafs, just curious?

Doesn't hit.
Face-offs are not great.
Doesn't block shots.

Even though he doesn’t hit, he’s still a big body down the middle who can play a sound two-way game. I think his career got a little derailed by his knee injury and this past season he was finally starting to show some promise that made him the 6th overall pick. In his first full season in the NHL, he basically put up 50% at the faceoff circle taking over 700 faceoffs… That’s pretty good for a young guy and should improve with more experience.

We desperately lack center depth in this organization with Minten potentially being our only solid prospect down the middle and he’s even projected to be more of a third line center. I feel like Glass is one of those guys who may be a late bloomer (mainly from his injury) and has all the tools to become a solid second line center in the near future.

 

[ULF_55]

Even though he doesn’t hit, he’s still a big body down the middle who can play a sound two-way game. I think his career got a little derailed by his knee injury and this past season he was finally starting to show some promise that made him the 6th overall pick. In his first full season in the NHL, he basically put up 50% at the faceoff circle taking over 700 faceoffs… That’s pretty good for a young guy and should improve with more experience.

We desperately lack center depth in this organization with Minten potentially being our only solid prospect down the middle and he’s even projected to be more of a third line center. I feel like Glass is one of those guys who may be a late bloomer (mainly from his injury) and has all the tools to become a solid second line center in the near future.

So at 24 the gamble is he's a slow developer ... like we hope Holmberg is.

If he was pursued you have to think it is for the 3rd. line, and if he improves he challenges for a role higher in the line-up. You don't acquire expecting it though.

Matthews
Tavares - then ?
Glass
Kampf

 

[Dion TheFluff]

what time is the arbitration hearing at?

 

[uncleben]

what time is the arbitration hearing at?

The hearing was yesterday

The arbiter has 48hrs to make their judgement, so we should find out tomorrow

 

[al secord]

Like me, I'm sure the arbiter is working by the lake and already 3 beers deep.

 

[Americanadian]

Bjork had 45 points last year.
Nylander nearly double at 87 points.

You don’t think the difference between them is a prospect who was sent back to juniors and managed 7 points at the World Juniors to Bedards 23?

Seriously?

I have been very consistent on this site that I think points are overrated and a flawed way to look at players. If we do think comparing points is the right way to go about it we won't get anywhere comparing one player's career year to another player's worst season in 4 years. In the 3 seasons prior to this season Nylander put up 0.91 P/GP to Bjorkstrand's 0.74, a difference of 13 points per season. The difference in goals was 0.41 (Nylander) vs 0.36 (Bjorkstrand) or 4G/82 GP. Nylander is obviously superior but the difference wasn't that big prior to Bjorkstrand being traded and playing the 8th highest minutes among Seattle forwards. When you factor in the centers that Bjorkstrand played with in Columbus over those 3 years (Jenner, PLD, Roslovic, Domi) it shrinks the gap even more. I don't think the gap between the two is Shane Wright - currently the 14th best prospect according to this list which is the most updated list I've seen: https://theathletic.com/4665381/2023/07/18/nhl-top-prospects-rankings-connor-bedard/

When you factor in that Nylander will make ~4M more than Bjorkstrand in a year the gap in value per dollar leans in Bjorkstrand's direction.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Hey there bud. Your contract is too big and nobody can fit you in. If you are really all about that winning, accept a mutual contract termination and sign with a team, with whatever $ they have left. I suspect that would never happen though, I wonder why?

Do you think Tavares cares about winning? This is such a deranged thought divorced from any precedent or reality, I'm sorry.

He picked up the Norris a month ago btw. The way people talk about his contract is absurd. He was better than any of our $11m players last season.

 

[VanW27]

Do you think Tavares cares about winning? This is such a deranged thought divorced from any precedent or reality, I'm sorry.

He picked up the Norris a month ago btw. The way people talk about his contract is absurd. He was better than any of our $11m players last season.

Indeed, remember when our elite offensive winger was gunning for 100 points for the first time in the last game of the season and everyone was losing their mind at that potential accomplishment, which he didn't do..

Karlsson had 101 points as a defenseman. Even more impressive he put up 74 even strength points (vs 58 for Marner, which was second on the Leafs) and had over 50% more points than the second highest scoring Shark.

 

[ULF_55]

I have been very consistent on this site that I think points are overrated and a flawed way to look at players. If we do think comparing points is the right way to go about it we won't get anywhere comparing one player's career year to another player's worst season in 4 years. In the 3 seasons prior to this season Nylander put up 0.91 P/GP to Bjorkstrand's 0.74, a difference of 13 points per season. The difference in goals was 0.41 (Nylander) vs 0.36 (Bjorkstrand) or 4G/82 GP. Nylander is obviously superior but the difference wasn't that big prior to Bjorkstrand being traded and playing the 8th highest minutes among Seattle forwards. When you factor in the centers that Bjorkstrand played with in Columbus over those 3 years (Jenner, PLD, Roslovic, Domi) it shrinks the gap even more. I don't think the gap between the two is Shane Wright - currently the 14th best prospect according to this list which is the most updated list I've seen: Scott Wheeler's top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, summer 2023 edition

When you factor in that Nylander will make ~4M more than Bjorkstrand in a year the gap in value per dollar leans in Bjorkstrand's direction.

Yes, points don't win games goals do.

No matter what way you look at it when you score more than the opponent you win.

Everything and I mean everything else comes in at number 2 when deciding a game.

 

[Fogelhund]

Do you think Tavares cares about winning? This is such a deranged thought divorced from any precedent or reality, I'm sorry.

He picked up the Norris a month ago btw. The way people talk about his contract is absurd. He was better than any of our $11m players last season.

Swell, but the point appears to have been missed. Nobody who is a contending team has cap room right now.

 

[Americanadian]

Yes, points don't win games goals do.

No matter what way you look at it when you score more than the opponent you win.

Everything and I mean everything else comes in at number 2 when deciding a game.

Does this mean that Tage Thompson and Jason Robertson are better than Matthews? They both scored more goals/assists than him last season.

 

[Fogelhund]

I have been very consistent on this site that I think points are overrated and a flawed way to look at players. If we do think comparing points is the right way to go about it we won't get anywhere comparing one player's career year to another player's worst season in 4 years. In the 3 seasons prior to this season Nylander put up 0.91 P/GP to Bjorkstrand's 0.74, a difference of 13 points per season. The difference in goals was 0.41 (Nylander) vs 0.36 (Bjorkstrand) or 4G/82 GP. Nylander is obviously superior but the difference wasn't that big prior to Bjorkstrand being traded and playing the 8th highest minutes among Seattle forwards. When you factor in the centers that Bjorkstrand played with in Columbus over those 3 years (Jenner, PLD, Roslovic, Domi) it shrinks the gap even more. I don't think the gap between the two is Shane Wright - currently the 14th best prospect according to this list which is the most updated list I've seen: Scott Wheeler's top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, summer 2023 edition

When you factor in that Nylander will make ~4M more than Bjorkstrand in a year the gap in value per dollar leans in Bjorkstrand's direction.

Why exactly exclude this season?

Last four seasons. Nylander 122 goals. Bjork. 86.

You don’t arbitrarily get to eliminate Nylander’s best year but keep Bjorkstrand’s.

Bjork also is pretty much a 20 goal scorer, with on year much above that. Nylander has consistently been a 30 goal + guy.

To suggest these guys are close is ridiculous, particularly the value per dollar notion.

So with a Bjork for Nylander trade, what are you happy with the add being?

 

[al secord]

Do you think Tavares cares about winning? This is such a deranged thought divorced from any precedent or reality, I'm sorry.

He picked up the Norris a month ago btw. The way people talk about his contract is absurd. He was better than any of our $11m players last season.

Tavares cares about winning. He came here specifically to win with his childhood team.

Like Sundin, I don't think he takes his captaincy lightly.

 

[aingefan]

Nobody called him a random prospect, but he certainly isn’t in the elite tier of prospects either. He’s no Bedard, or even close.

The point was more that you need a very significant add to a 45 point winger, to get an 87 point winger. Bjork is a useful player, but he’s in the trade for two reasons. 1. Seattle wouldn’t need him and would need to move Cap. 2. Leafs could use a useful RW.

The main return in this trade IS Wright and Bjork is the add on. Not the other way around.

I like Wright, but he isn’t going to be a 1C, and there is some concern as to what his ceiling will be. He was scratched in the AHL playoffs this year, and if he isn’t NHL ready this year, he’ll have to play in the OHL again.

Again, I think he’ll be a decent 2C, maybe not an elite 2C, but a good one, but people need to get over the pre-draft hype. He will never be nearly as good as the hyped 1st OA potential guy.

Do we really think a guy like Nylander coming off of 87 points wouldn’t receive back one good piece?

Was he really scratched in the A playoffs?

Do you have or know any context behind that one?

That sounds odd.

 

[Stephen]

Wright was the 4th overall pick. He dropped. There are reasons he dropped.

He's on the express lane to Puljujarvi Town.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares cares about winning. He came here specifically to win with his childhood team.

Like Sundin, I don't think he takes his captaincy lightly.

Of course Tavares "cares" about winning. "Caring" really isn't the low bar every Leaf should be aspiring to... whether he can spearhead a championship is the question. And whether the Leafs have enough to build a team that can carry him to a championship if he isn't capable.