Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[andora]

dekes for days, some random guy on the internet should be listened to over Brisson.

Never know he could have been said IT guy

 

[DraftSchmaft]

You guys? I didn't say anything about a video. You seem a little too emotionally involved in this.

@ACC1224 asked me if I was referring to Tavares in a previous post I made. I said yes. You're a little too hyper today.

I mean dekes doing his usual passive trolling with the "random internet guy" comments that riled him up to begin, so there's no need for him to get picked on about emotion.

But it was an amazing turn around swinging the random internet guy comment back onto Dekes using Brisson Another L for Dekes.

 

[1specter]

That video is miniscule and irrelevant to the 3 headed monster matthews marner and nylander Tavares was coming to play with and wanted re-assurance would be kept together. So if you guys are weighing that video heavy which is less relevant, then the work of past GMs that allowed dubas to inherit matthews marner and nylander gets even more credit.

So even if you don't want to agree Tavares was a shoe-in to be a Leaf, Dubas is still more of just a placeholder more than a requirement for Tavares signing. Which GM is really going to say "no I do not plan to keep my stars, sorry".

I am just saying what was reported, I didn't give my opinion. End of the day none of us were in the room or JT's head so we'll never really know, the strong opinions around this either way are a bit much.

 

[Mess]

What I remember most in the courting of Tavares was that Mitch Marner was a part of the presentation team, and that Tavares was being pitched specifically that he would be playing with Marner on his RW if he signed.

As Babcock was part of the group pitching, that's exactly who Tavares' RW was when it was still Babcock running the show.

I always wondered if that was why Babcock was so set against playing Matthews and Marner..... either way, the forward talent we have is more than I can remember having at any point in the last 40+ years....

One of the Leafs biggest downfalls is that if you are going to pay a player $11 mil in a Salary Cap World and among the highest contracts in the league they MUST be capable of driving their own line.

Backcock balanced the Leafs offense across 3 lines creating a top 9 forward group, which then creates challenges for the opposition to contain particularly in the playoffs and this was while the kids were still on their ELC.

This was the Leafs line-up during 105 point season.,

Hyman (15) -- Matthews (34 goals in 62 gamnes) -- Brown (14) /Nylander (20)
Marleau(27 goals) -- Kadri (32 Goals) --- Marner (22)
JVR (36 goals) ---- Bozak (12) ------Nylander/Brown

When you put all your eggs in one basket all it takes is a checking line C (Phillip Danault) and good D pairing (Webber/Charot) and your Goalie ( Carey Price) and you can send the heavy favourite team packing.

If the Leafs spread Matthews, Tavares and Marner all on different lines it wouldn't leave such a gap between the Haves and the Have Nots and why the bottom of Leafs roster looks so weak.

Engvall -- Kampf -- Kerfoot
Simmonds/Gautette --- Jarnkrok -- Malgin/Aube-Kubel/Clifford

PS. Matthews scored 40 goals in his rookie season and won the Calder and didn't need another person to drive his line for him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

His contracts were awful and so was his drafting/developing. He also had a long list of trades that were just poor talent evaluation.

But when it came to negotiating value in trades, he could outright fleece GM's. We've probably seen 1 clear trade tilt in this regime (Kapanen), whereas Burke had like 5-7.

Yea the Kubina - Exelby deal was weird.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I am just saying what was reported, I didn't give my opinion. End of the day none of us were in the room or JT's head so we'll never really know, the strong opinions around this either way are a bit much.

The opinions were not strong I wrongfully grouped you two with the other guy that was my bad. He's been handled.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's literally fact by now our roster sold Tavares

The roster was part of it, and how Dubas sold that roster, his vision moving forward, his commitment to keeping all of them, how Tavares could fit in, etc. It all and more was important to his decision to come here. It's amazing how Dubas can be blamed for him coming here while, unlike any other GM, be simultaneously discredited for his signing. Even when the player credits the GM. Also amazing how Dubas can be blamed for keeping the roster together, and yet still not credited for Tavares when you're claiming that's what brought him here.

You're on a board with Leafs homers you think we're going to forget quotes from when Xmas came early?

You'd think not, but it seems a lot of people have. You seem to have forgotten to include quite a few in your post yourself, even from the article you specifically linked.

There's nothing to take up. The video presentation doesn't need to exist.

Well there is something to take up if you're disagreeing with Tavares - the guy actually involved. The only one who keeps focusing in on the video presentation here is you, though the video did seem to help, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

dekes for days, some random guy on the internet should be listened to over Brisson.

Brisson didn't disagree with me, and the only person I suggested you listen to was Tavares.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The roster was part of it, and how Dubas sold that roster, his vision moving forward, his commitment to keeping all of them, how Tavares could fit in, etc. It all and more was important to his decision to come here. It's amazing how Dubas can be blamed for him coming here while, unlike any other GM, be simultaneously discredited for his signing. Even when the player credits the GM. Also amazing how Dubas can be blamed for keeping the roster together, and yet still not credited for Tavares when you're claiming that's what brought him here.

You'd think not, but it seems a lot of people have. You seem to have forgotten to include quite a few in your post yourself, even from the article you specifically linked.

Well there is something to take up if you're disagreeing with Tavares - the guy actually involved. The only one who keeps focusing in on the video presentation here is you, though the video did seem to help, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Brisson didn't disagree with me, and the only person I suggested you listen to was Tavares.

_____________________________

Tavares himself has stated that he was really unsure about coming here/what he was going to do, and Dubas and the presentation they gave was a big part of convincing him to come.

Not falling for your trap. I see how you operate around here. Re-read my posts and you see how I relate the roster part to the video part (presentation overall) and then to credit. If you still don't get it, move on,

 

[jaric1862]

I think the Leafs could use one more forward to compete for a fourth line spot.
It feels pretty set that it's gonna be Simmonds-Gaudette-N.A.K , they need some more competition.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

The roster was part of it, and how Dubas sold that roster, his vision moving forward, his commitment to keeping all of them, how Tavares could fit in, etc. It all and more was important to his decision to come here. It's amazing how Dubas can be blamed for him coming here while, unlike any other GM, be simultaneously discredited for his signing. Even when the player credits the GM. Also amazing how Dubas can be blamed for keeping the roster together, and yet still not credited for Tavares when you're claiming that's what brought him here.

You'd think not, but it seems a lot of people have. You seem to have forgotten to include quite a few in your post yourself, even from the article you specifically linked.

Well there is something to take up if you're disagreeing with Tavares - the guy actually involved. The only one who keeps focusing in on the video presentation here is you, though the video did seem to help, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Brisson didn't disagree with me, and the only person I suggested you listen to was Tavares.

Kindly point out what other quotes are important to what was being discussed. It seems you just don't understand what he said and trying to drag us into one of those 10 page circular fights about nothing

 

[Dekes For Days]

Re-read my posts and you see how I relate the roster part to the video part (presentation overall) and then to credit.

I've read all your posts. You stated that Dubas had nothing to do with his own signing (post #851 - which is false, as per Tavares), and then you quoted a post of mine and went on and on about a video for some reason (post #855, 856, 859, 867). For the record, Toronto's presentation to Tavares involved a lot more than Tavares flying to Toronto, Dubas popping in a VHS, and then Tavares leaving, in case that wasn't clear.

It seems you just don't understand what he said and trying to drag us into one of those 10 page circular fights about nothing

Oh, I understand perfectly what he said, and I posted it in my original post (post #853). And I would have preferred to leave it at that, but then you quoted me, cherry picked a quote that didn't even dispute anything I said (post #857), and then accused everybody of being a troll (post #875, 877).

 

[Menzinger]

Wild are reportedly in the market for a forward and would have the capspace to absorb Kerfoot.

But I also don't really see an incentive for the Leafs to trade him at the moment. Unless there's an immediate plan to do something with the capspace

 

[TML Dynasty]

Wild are reportedly in the market for a forward and would have the capspace to absorb Kerfoot.

But I also don't really see an incentive for the Leafs to trade him at the moment. Unless there's an immediate plan to do something with the capspace

Sign Sandin and have cap space that grows throughout the year could be the plan.

 

[TML Dynasty]

I think all we do on defence is we trade Holl. Our D looks like this once Sandin is signed:

Reilly Brodie
Muzzin. Liljegrin
Sandin Gio

For forward we could use someone to battle for that 2LW spot with Robertson in case he’s not ready which is a very real possibility.

Trade Kerfoot and Holl.

Use cap space to add someone who could be 2LW.

I’d like to give some Marlies a longer leash too at the beginning of the year. Steeves and Anderson. Douglas even for a couple just for fun….who knows. So no need to add more 4th line depth.

 

[Menzinger]

Sign Sandin and have cap space that grows throughout the year could be the plan.

it could be. Though it leaves another hole at LW with no immediate solution to

 

[jaric1862]

I’m gonna keep saying it…trading Kerfoot makes no sense.

Where does Sandin fit in this blue line:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljergren
Giordano-Holl

Sign Sandin to a 1-year deal and trade Holl.

 

[Knies iT]

Will be an interesting week for NJ.

Wood's club elected arb. date set for Aug 6., three days after Bratt's deadline. Currently have 8m+ in cap space, but Bratt is making a case for 6.5m and they're 2m+ apart. After their UFA signings, there is zero room for Wood in the top 9.

Depending on Wood's arb., it would be expensive to run that post-surgery contract risk just to fill a 4th line LW vacancy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah, I think if somebody is going to be moved to fit in Sandin, it would have to be Holl. There's only 6 defensemen spots, and you can't have one of them taking up ~2m and sitting.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I’m gonna keep saying it…trading Kerfoot makes no sense.

Where does Sandin fit in this blue line:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljergren
Giordano-Holl

Sign Sandin to a 1-year deal and trade Holl.

I think the writing was on the wall when Giordano signed. Muzzin is probably gone.

 

[jaric1862]

I think the writing was on the wall when Giordano signed. Muzzin is probably gone.

That trade makes no sense now. He has a full NTC and the only teams who have the cap to take him on are in the Bedard sweepstakes.

 

[Torontonian]

But we're over the cap. We have to make a move to clear space and sign or trade Sandin right?

So whats the hold up?

The only move we need to make is trading Holl and then putting the people who don't make the team like Simmonds/Clifford etc on waivers. Toronto will very likely run a 20 man roster for opening night, then use emergency call ups when someone is day to day, or then use LTIR if they are hurt for longer.

Toronto is going to use all the time they have, they have always operated like that. More then likely they will wait and see how the team looks after training camp and pre season and then re evaluate. Remember, Toronto doesn't have to be cap compliant until opening day of the season.

 

[Rielly4]

At this point it seems like Kerfoot will stay unless Muzzin gets moved as well. It will be hard to replace Kerfoot with a similar cap hit. The only guy in FA I could see signing for a similar cap hit to Kerf and possibly have similar production is Milano. Looking around the league there isnt many options at 3.5 that can put up 50 pts without much pp time. So that leads me to believe Kerfoot only gets moved if we get someone more expensive, and the only way we can afford that jump in AAV is moving out Muzzin.

Sandins gonna sign and Holl will get dumped if we keep Muzz and kerf. Unless they move Sandin for a skilled ELC forward.

 

[Fogelhund]

Stastny is about the only FA left who could help us more than Kerfoot. Solidify the 3C spot.

He made $3.75 mil last year, so it should be possible to sign him for slightly less than he did last year and fit him in.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

At this point it seems like Kerfoot will stay unless Muzzin gets moved as well. It will be hard to replace Kerfoot with a similar cap hit. The only guy in FA I could see signing for a similar cap hit to Kerf and possibly have similar production is Milano. Looking around the league there isnt many options at 3.5 that can put up 50 pts without much pp time. So that leads me to believe Kerfoot only gets moved if we get someone more expensive, and the only way we can afford that jump in AAV is moving out Muzzin.

Sandins gonna sign and Holl will get dumped if we keep Muzz and kerf. Unless they move Sandin for a skilled ELC forward.

Stastny, Rodrigues, and Kessel could work as well, but they do not bring the PK value.

The thing about Kerfoot is that I think we can live without the offense - which is likely going to go down if he is not playing 2LW next year anyways - since Jarnkrok and our prospects should provide more offense than some of the guys leaving the lineup anyways (Mikheyev, Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford/Blackwell). I am more concerned about replacing the PK value, even though we did add Jarnkrok, we still have Engvall, Marner, and Kampf, and we have some solid prospect candidates.

A healthy Larsson would be a perfect fit, since he can provide a lot of what Kerfoot brings (including some ability to spot at center) with some added grit, but it seems like there could be some concerns about his health. This was also the first year he produced more than a defensive 4th liner like a NAK, ZAR or Motte would be.

For the right offer, I would still move Kerfoot and trust a number of UFA's still out there (for different reasons): Stastny, Kessel, Rodrigues, Steel, Milano, ZAR, Motte, and (healthy) Larsson.

 

[Fogelhund]

Stastny, Rodrigues, and Kessel could work as well, but they do not bring the PK value.

The thing about Kerfoot is that I think we can live without the offense - which is likely going to go down if he is not playing 2LW next year anyways - since Jarnkrok and our prospects should provide more offense than some of the guys leaving the lineup anyways (Mikheyev, Spezza, Simmonds, Clifford/Blackwell). I am more concerned about replacing the PK value, even though we did add Jarnkrok, we still have Engvall, Marner, and Kampf, and we have some solid prospect candidates.

A healthy Larsson would be a perfect fit, since he can provide a lot of what Kerfoot brings (including some ability to spot at center) with some added grit, but it seems like there could be some concerns about his health. This was also the first year he produced more than a defensive 4th liner like a NAK, ZAR or Motte would be.

For the right offer, I would still move Kerfoot and trust a number of UFA's still out there (for different reasons): Stastny, Kessel, Rodrigues, Steel, Milano, ZAR, Motte, and (healthy) Larsson.

At this point, outside of the first two, you could probably sign any two with Kerfoot’s cap hit.