Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[LeafChief]

I wasn't discrediting him, was just an observation.
I never really expected Stamkos to sign as he would have been leaving a great situation. Tavares was different, once he made it to UFA I was certain he was signing here regardless of who the GM was. Hindsight, they would have probably been better off had they passed on Tavares, but I don't put that on Dubas either. I don't believe he would have been allowed to pass up signing him.

I didn't think you were. I was just confirming for you that you were correct, I was talking about Tavares.

I agree - Stamkos would have made a bad decision choosing to walk from Tampa. They were already loaded and the whole tax thing + living in Florida would be very tough to give up. Nobody really know what Matthews/Marner/Nylander were going to be at that time too.

In hindsight, you're probably right. Would have been really tough to walk away from a hometown star that finally wanted to come home though.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Things could obviously be much much worse, though. Hoping for a great year this year!

I mean dekes doing his usual passive trolling with the "random internet guy" comments that riled him up to begin, so there's no need for him to get picked on about emotion.

But it was an amazing turn around swinging the random internet guy comment back onto Dekes using Brisson Another L for Dekes.

Sure - not sure what that has to doo with me though. Seems there were two separate conversations going on and H4MVP confused them. He's apologized though. Water under the bridge. All good.

Go Leafs Go!

 

[meefer]

Players who would inarguably make this a better team that I'd like to acquire: P. Kane or JT Miller. Both would require 'all in' types of proposals, and regardless, I'm not sure if we've the capitol to entice either Chicago or Vancouver to proceed. Re-signing either would be difficult, but I think we'd have to be considered a favorite for the Cup if we had either on the team. Very risky.

I worry about our C depth. I'm a fan of JT, but he is slowing down and I am concerned about his ability to continue at C, especially the year after this. When looking at the team we have today I think I might re-investigate the Nylander experiment at C. Not just for this year, but to determine if we have a quality player who can support Matthews down the middle when JT's legs cannot keep up. I understand the risks involved, the lack of game to game engagement that Willy sometimes lacks, but he is a very talented player, has had some success down the middle, and if he is to be re-signed at a higher price, I'd prefer it if he was playing C. I'm also intrigued by how the team could be constructed if we were to try this.

Bunting Matthews xxx *Marner/Brown (see trade idea below)
Engvall/Robertson Tavares Marner/Brown
Robertson/Engvall Nylander Jarnkrok (N and J could switch according to game situation ?)
xxx Kamph Aube-Kubel/Anderson

This leaves: Kerfoot/Malgin/Simmonds/Clifford/Gaudette available to fight for LW on the 4th, or to be included in a trade for someone who might fit at RW with Matthews and Bunting (Would a lateral move with Washington: Kerfoot for Brown, appeal to either team?)

Not trying to force anything here, just trying to move away from the common construction of the team as it exists today.

 

[Fogelhund]

Players who would inarguably make this a better team that I'd like to acquire: P. Kane or JT Miller. Both would require 'all in' types of proposals, and regardless, I'm not sure if we've the capitol to entice either Chicago or Vancouver to proceed. Re-signing either would be difficult, but I think we'd have to be considered a favorite for the Cup if we had either on the team. Very risky.

I worry about our C depth. I'm a fan of JT, but he is slowing down and I am concerned about his ability to continue at C, especially the year after this. When looking at the team we have today I think I might re-investigate the Nylander experiment at C. Not just for this year, but to determine if we have a quality player who can support Matthews down the middle when JT's legs cannot keep up. I understand the risks involved, the lack of game to game engagement that Willy sometimes lacks, but he is a very talented player, has had some success down the middle, and if he is to be re-signed at a higher price, I'd prefer it if he was playing C. I'm also intrigued by how the team could be constructed if we were to try this.

Bunting Matthews xxx *Marner/Brown (see trade idea below)
Engvall/Robertson Tavares Marner/Brown
Robertson/Engvall Nylander Jarnkrok (N and J could switch according to game situation ?)
xxx Kamph Aube-Kubel/Anderson

This leaves: Kerfoot/Malgin/Simmonds/Clifford/Gaudette available to fight for LW on the 4th, or to be included in a trade for someone who might fit at RW with Matthews and Bunting (Would a lateral move with Washington: Kerfoot for Brown, appeal to either team?)

Not trying to force anything here, just trying to move away from the common construction of the team as it exists today.

I think your Nylander idea as a future 2C has merit. I think Nylander has to become better defensively and become more physically engaged to be as effective as Tavares has been in his career though. He’s one heck of a talent though, so it’s possible.

I’m not a fan of Kane or Miller at this point, but might be if the cost isn’t huge at the deadline. I don’t want to give up too much of a future, for one run.

 

[meefer]

I think your Nylander idea as a future 2C has merit. I think Nylander has to become better defensively and become more physically engaged to be as effective as Tavares has been in his career though. He’s one heck of a talent though, so it’s possible.

I’m not a fan of Kane or Miller at this point, but might be if the cost isn’t huge at the deadline. I don’t want to give up too much of a future, for one run.

Nylander is a bit of an enigma for me. Tremendous talent, I'm just not sure how his brain is wired. He's sort of Kesselesque in that regard. Were he to succeed at C I think it would be with a physically engaged winger or two. Matthew Knies?

I don't know why I started with Kane and Miller, just their talent I suppose. I think they'd position what we currently have into the correct slots, while adding their obvious skills. The costs are what would scare me.

 

[SprDaVE]

Stastny is about the only FA left who could help us more than Kerfoot. Solidify the 3C spot.

He made $3.75 mil last year, so it should be possible to sign him for slightly less than he did last year and fit him in.

He'll sign with Colorado if Kadri ends up signing with the Islanders.

I don't think I have much interest in Stastny personally, I'd prefer younger and a player that has more upside to add more to the lineup in an area of need. Stastny is fine but I'll predict a regressing year for him, especially in a lower end role.

 

[Fogelhund]

He'll sign with Colorado if Kadri ends up signing with the Islanders.

I don't think I have much interest in Stastny personally, I'd prefer younger and a player that has more upside to add more to the lineup in an area of need. Stastny is fine but I'll predict a regressing year for him, especially in a lower end role.

Young players with more upside just aren’t available at this time though are they? Of course he’s regressing, that’s why we are talking about him as a potential 3C, when his peak was much higher. He’s a stop gap, and not much more than that, but personally not a bad one. I think as a true C, he’s better than our other options for the bottom six in that regard.

 

[rocketman588]

For one year, when you either sign them for quite a bit more than you were paying, or they walk. This doesn’t make any sense.

We gave willy for two and Muzzin is a year or two away from the glue factory.

So yeah it makes sense

 

[SprDaVE]

Young players with more upside just aren’t available at this time though are they? Of course he’s regressing, that’s why we are talking about him as a potential 3C, when his peak was much higher. He’s a stop gap, and not much more than that, but personally not a bad one. I think as a true C, he’s better than our other options for the bottom six in that regard.

Younger than 36 years old? They are, especially in a trade.

I don't think he really fits what the Leafs need and I don't think he'll give enough in a bottom line role compared to what he was given last year on a bad team. He definitely can contribute, don't get me wrong. But he's not a great penalty killer, he doesn't hit and doesn't really fit in a power play role either.

He only took 470 faceoffs last year, fourth on the Jets. He took less faceoffs than Jason Spezza. Not sure he's a "true center", especially on the Leafs. He could be a Spezza level replacement, but is he taking league minimum to do that? He isn't.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Younger than 36 years old? They are, especially in a trade.

I don't think he really fits what the Leafs need and I don't think he'll give enough in a bottom line role compared to what he was given last year on a bad team.

He only took 470 faceoffs last year, fourth on the Jets. He took less faceoffs than Jason Spezza. Not sure he's a "true center", especially on the Leafs. He could be a Spezza level replacement, but is he taking league minimum to do that?

We do not really need one. He could fit well as a LW to split with Jarnkrok (a RH center/winger) as the guy who should be a full time center for us.

The thing is, I don't think he is at the point where he needs to take a very cheap deal. He can probably make something close to 3.75 mill again, even if there are some performance bonuses in there.

Colorado makes a ton of sense if they miss out on Kadri, and even Winnipeg could really use him again. I don't think Calgary has the cap space for him anymore, and Dallas will likely be the same. Funny enough, it is the same market for Kerfoot so any losers on Kadri and Stastny could turn to us for Kerfoot.

 

[LeafEgo]

I dont get the focus on improving our top 6 with names like Miller or Kane. The big 4 F's at 40M are our top 6. If that's not good enough you have to move one. Keeping them all necessitates a focus (remaining $'s) on improving the rest of the team.

At the 40M price point I'm not sure we can create three potent offensive lines arranging the stars, as the remaing 12M or so $'s for forwards isn't enough to round out the next nine spots and make it work.

Something like Matty>JT>88>Kampf down the middle with an extra 11M maybe, but if none are moved than the big 4 with a bunting and engvall is probably all you get, bar some great luck with one of the ELCs in the pipeline.

Otherwise we just end up blaming the 4th line, the next Boosh/Holl, and our goaltenders again.

 

[notDatsyuk]

One of the Leafs biggest downfalls is that if you are going to pay a player $11 mil in a Salary Cap World and among the highest contracts in the league they MUST be capable of driving their own line.

Backcock balanced the Leafs offense across 3 lines creating a top 9 forward group, which then creates challenges for the opposition to contain particularly in the playoffs and this was while the kids were still on their ELC.

This was the Leafs line-up during 105 point season.,

Hyman (15) -- Matthews (34 goals in 62 gamnes) -- Brown (14) /Nylander (20)
Marleau(27 goals) -- Kadri (32 Goals) --- Marner (22)
JVR (36 goals) ---- Bozak (12) ------Nylander/Brown

When you put all your eggs in one basket all it takes is a checking line C (Phillip Danault) and good D pairing (Webber/Charot) and your Goalie ( Carey Price) and you can send the heavy favourite team packing.

If the Leafs spread Matthews, Tavares and Marner all on different lines it wouldn't leave such a gap between the Haves and the Have Nots and why the bottom of Leafs roster looks so weak.

Engvall -- Kampf -- Kerfoot
Simmonds/Gautette --- Jarnkrok -- Malgin/Aube-Kubel/Clifford

PS. Matthews scored 40 goals in his rookie season and won the Calder and didn't need another person to drive his line for him.

Agreed, although personally I would leave Matthews and Marner together, and have Nylander and Tavares centering lines 2 and 3.

 

[LeafEgo]

Agreed, although personally I would leave Matthews and Marner together, and have Nylander and Tavares centering lines 2 and 3.

How do you increase overall value with JT and 88 playing less total minutes with scrubs on both sides? If Kerf moves to get under the cap then Jarn is the best winger of the four most likely.

 

[bossram]

I'd be in favour of moving Kerfoot and Holl - then have Dubas sign a variety of the bargain-basement forwards lying around to give the Leafs more depth.

Milano ($1M) - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Engvall - Kampf - Aston-Reese ($1M)
________ - Jarnkrok - NAK
Simmonds

Maybe you can even get ERod for very cheap to give the club more depth. The Leafs need Tavares to be playing like a 1C at even-strength. The only time he was doing that was when Matthews was injured and he had Bunting/Marner on his wings.

Matthews is an elite two-way center. A Hart winner. He's had chemistry with Nylander before and should be able to elevate anyone else. Milano actually had strong two-way metrics and elite passing microdata, which should be a fit with those two.

The 3rd line is obviously the defensively buried, shutdown line. ZAR has experience in this role.

4th line should basically be a utility line. NAK and Jarnkrok can fill in where needed. Someone else from camp will win the extra spot on the line (Gaudette, Holmberg, Robertson, Anderson, etc.). I imagine Dubas will find it tough to waive Simmonds for sentimental reasons. Maybe he sticks as a 13th forward for "leadership".

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sandin 1 year 1.25M

 

[Nylander88]

Clifford/Simmonds on the Marlies? Extra forwards?

What's the plan with those two.

I think you see them rotate with one another on the 4th line. Something like Simmonds/Clifford-Gaudette-Aube-Kubel. I don't think they're removed entirely by any means.

 

[notDatsyuk]

How do you increase overall value with JT and 88 playing less total minutes with scrubs on both sides? If Kerf moves to get under the cap then Jarn is the best winger of the four most likely.

The post I was responding to was suggesting having Matthews, Marner, and Tavares on three separate lines, pointing out that it makes it harder to shut down.

We have ample evidence that Tavares and Nylander do not work particularly well together, and I think it would be more practical to split them than to split Matthews/Marner.

With wingers better suited to each player's style, they may well be more productive even with fewer minutes, which could well be taken from the fourth line.

 

[LeafChief]

View attachment 574366
View attachment 574367

Sandin 1 year 1.25M

I'd swap Engvall and NAK on the lines but otherwise I'd like this. Would be okay with Rodrigues instead of Stastny too but overall I like it.

Has Giordano played a lot on the right side? Wondering if that would work.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd swap Engvall and NAK on the lines but otherwise I'd like this. Would be okay with Rodrigues instead of Stastny too but overall I like it.

Has Giordano played a lot on the right side? Wondering if that would work.

I've personally never seen it, I could have sworn it was Soucy who played RD in Seattle but others are saying he's done it.

 

[Americanadian]

This is probably an unpopular opinion around here but I would trade Nylander for this guy in a heartbeat. With his new contract the Leafs would save almost 1.2M and get an extra year. I think he'd be a perfect player to put next to Tavares.

 

[andora]

This is probably an unpopular opinion around here but I would trade Nylander for this guy in a heartbeat. With his new contract the Leafs would save almost 1.2M and get an extra year. I think he'd be a perfect player to put next to Tavares.

Agreed i think his style would work for tavares - i think that deal is a tad high relative to only 3 years

But also agree he would have been a player to target if talking to calgary about nylander.

 

[A1LeafNation]

This is probably an unpopular opinion around here but I would trade Nylander for this guy in a heartbeat. With his new contract the Leafs would save almost 1.2M and get an extra year. I think he'd be a perfect player to put next to Tavares.

12 in 27 playoff games the last 4 years.

22 in 26 playoff games the last 4 years for Nylander. We have Nylander and he is good on a good contract.

 

[Fogelhund]

From Dom at the Athletic, he’s ranked teams on their contracts, though it looks a lot like ranking the teams by regular season points last year. Here is how he sees the Leafs.

 

[Americanadian]

Agreed i think his style would work for tavares - i think that deal is a tad high relative to only 3 years

But also agree he would have been a player to target if talking to calgary about nylander.

Points =/= everything. Mangiapane also played 3 minutes less per game than Nylander in the playoffs over the last 4 years due to being stuck behind Tkachuk/Gaudreau on the depth chart.

 

[Havoc]

From Dom at the Athletic, he’s ranked teams on their contracts, though it looks a lot like ranking the teams by regular season points last year. Here is how he sees the Leafs. View attachment 574396

what's this guy smoking on nylander and kampf

 

[andora]

Points =/= everything.

Of course not.. just a bit hesitant with consistency with him.. again not necessarily scoring but tenacity

But in my view the hesitancy isnt strong enough to not want the player because of everything he does. I do like him as a safe player even when not scoring.. same as Dube.. who i also like from them and think will be a very solid player